1 100 2 https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/66e790f15dc69a6b7cfdd0a72ff3918b.pdf 69acacbde687db0b18cbb8399468fb1a PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Seitoku Akamine, October 20, 1998 CREW MEMBER: And we have speed. INTERVIEWER: Okay, we're here today on October 20, 1998 to interview Seitoku Akamine, and I am Dianne Tanaka, the interviewer. We've got Jason Inouye on camera, Christine Sato recording or taking the notes. CREW MEMBER: Logging. INTERVIEWER: Logging, cataloguing, and Christine Ige on audio. Okay, so if you could state your name. AKAMINE: My name? Seitoku Akamine. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and where are you from? AKAMINE: Hilo, Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: Date of birth? AKAMINE: Oh, date of birth? INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh. AKAMINE: February 12, 1919. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Let's start off by---if you can give---maybe tell me about, a little bit about your childhood. So, where were you bo[rn], you were born? AKAMINE: I was born in Ulumalu, Maui, went to grammar school at Makawao, Maui for eight grade. INTERVIEWER: Until you - okay. And what did you parents do? What? AKAMINE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 33 �You mean at the plantation? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, okay, so you . . . AKAMINE: Well, my father was a regular laborer. My mother was a, what do you call it, housewife. INTERVIEWER: And where are your parents from? AKAMINE: Okinawa. INTERVIEWER: Okay. So what was your experience up until eighth grade? What did you do? Did you have lots of friends? AKAMINE: Oh yes! When we were a kids like that we used to have own---we used to make our own (02:00) toys and own games, and we used to have a lot of fun. We used to going to pineapple fields, swipe the pineapples. We had to have lunch sometimes during the weekends; we'd eat the pineapples. That's why, I guess, we're healthy today. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: And who were your friends? Well, did you have lots of friends maybe, friends that . . .? AKAMINE: Yeah, I had a lotta classmates, friends, but I hate to say it but I forgot their names except maybe one, his last name was a Goya, A. Kagoya, I think. And the last time I saw him was in Schofield Barracks when we were drafted, and he was a different company or platoon. And I remember one day when we were having a ten-minute break, he came to the corner. I think---I feel that he want to talk to me, but I never seen him after that. We went overseas, I heard that he got killed. And this Brian Yoshimoto is in Honolulu. The rest of them even my classmates, I'm not so sure if their names---if I remember their names well or not, I better not mention about them. But I had some good friends. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And so after the eighth grade, what---where did you go? What did you do? AKAMINE: My parents called the family to the Big Island, to the plantation, Honokaa Plantation, and I worked in a cane field from the time I was 14 years old. I never attended the high school. All my kid, uh, my brother and my sister attended, but I didn't. (04:00) And while working with the Filipinos in the cane field, imagine I was only 14 years old on a hot summer day and especially when Mount Haleakala was clear, I used to cry, I used to say to myself, "I'm going back to Maui to meet my friends, classmates." I never did go back to Maui until I got discharged from the Army about 1946-47. And when you hear youngsters, teenagers, they think of suicide, there's something to it. Because the feeling is that they're not been This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 33 �taking care of what they need, you know, it's strange thing. It's hard for me to explain that, but I had a feeling, but I pulled through. INTERVIEWER: Now, why did you have that feeling? AKAMINE: Well, one thing, I felt lonesome, and another thing, I miss my friends, my classmates. And I guess another point was that, get up early in the morning maybe about 5:30, get breakfast and join the other laborers going to the cane field. And I thought at my age, I think that wasn't necessary, but since those were the depression years, my parents need the help, so I guess that's one of the reason why that they took me out to the field to work. Actually, they could have sent me to high school (06:00), but they didn't because like you hear some Japanese parents they said, "The first born was supposed to help support the family." So maybe that's what happened. INTERVIEWER: I guess you were the first born, you were the oldest? AKAMINE: I was the oldest. INTERVIEWER: And your father; he worked with you or where were they? AKAMINE: The whole family was with us, but they were in a different employment, you know, like, in a fields [but] not together with me. They were---he was on his own. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Were there many other 14-year-olds like you? Were you the youngest? AKAMINE: Not that I know of. INTERVIEWER: So you were the youngest? AKAMINE: I guess I was the youngest. INTERVIEWER: Um. AKAMINE: Except, through the summer, my brother, he attended high school already, they were hired by the plantation to do the summer work. That's about all I know. But to be a steady employee like I was, I doubt it none that I---not that I know of. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 33 �INTERVIEWER: So how did you feel about your sib[lings]---your brother and sister going to school? How did that make you feel? AKAMINE: I don't think I felt anything about that. I had no grievance against them or, you know, I just took it natural that I just have to work, that's all. I have no hard feelings against them. INTERVIEWER: So what would you do for fun after work? Did you---after work? AKAMINE: Well, we were in a plantation camp, I remember many weekends like Saturday and Sunday, I remember many times it was raining, (08:00) I used to get up to some of the Filipino's homes and they were nice people. Many of them were graduated from college and they came to the islands, so they could speak well, you know, English, very well. They wanted me to play cards, black jack not with money. We used to play with matchsticks. If I won maybe a 100 matchsticks I take it home and then maybe Sunday go back and I play with the matchsticks. We never played with money. That's one of the fun. And during the day, we played volleyball most of the time, practically the whole day, Saturday and Sunday. And those days I hardly had lunch at home. Those people, the Filipino people used to invite to their home and that's the reason why I love their food. You know that, they call it "bagoong," the first time, I couldn't eat that, but that's the flavor that I like it now. Although, I don't care much about their---the smell of that thing, but I enjoyed it. Especially volleyball. When I see the class, the college kids playing volleyball, it's a difference from our time. So anyway, that's one of the funs we used to have, volleyball, playing cards with the Filipino boys. INTERVIEWER: Then your friends were actually older though, a lot older than you? AKAMINE: Oh, you mean the Filipino? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. AKAMINE: Oh yeah. They must have finished college, many of them. INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh. So what was a typical day for you on the plantation field? Explain to us what you did, what time you woke up, your day? (10:00) AKAMINE: What I thought about a day? INTERVIEWER: What you did during the day, like a typical day? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 33 �AKAMINE: You mean in the field? INTERVIEWER: In the field. AKAMINE: Well, beginning I used to join their, Filipinos, as---in a cane field, irrigation or whatever I'm calling. You irrigate the cane fields and whatnot. And the contractor was Japanese man, he appointed me to be a water boy, carry five-gallon can. And if you don't mind if I mention some of them are---you see, of the water boy, as the---the group move each time, I have to collect their lunch bags and I have to transport to where they are at the present time. But at the beginning, those people, they love their gravy. I used to carry on a pole, I used to tilt that thing. I got a mean scolding because the gravy came out and I learned a good lesson from them. And, you know what is, gee, what that---I gotta name for that Filipino but, you know, the guts that they used to love that and we used to get together, share our lunch. Now, I cannot refuse I had to pick some of them, eh?. Some of that, you know, what tripe, tripe. They don't wash that thing good, I think, kind of greenish color. So I have to take at least one. What a wonderful time I had? But, another---I learned a lot from them, though, the way they cook. (12:00) They use lot of vegetables and they were good cooks. That's some of the experiences I had with them. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And now, why don't you explain a little bit about your---the supervisors that supervised you. AKAMINE: Well, our---my workgroup, the contractor was a Japanese man, he was all right. But plantation supervisors, two brothers, Scotchmen, I'm not going to mention their name I might get sued on that. They used to swear at me, they used to criticize me because I used gloves. One of the younger one's, I told him, "Why don't you get off from your horse and try and handle this flume because you get splinters." That's the reason why I use the gloves. And older brother, once we had a cane fire and I was assigned to help them build a firebreak. While I was doing that, he came, the older brother. He told me, "Hustle up! [13:19] Get moving!" He swore at me so I swore back. I figure, I swear at him and if he want to fire me, the heck with it. They were---you folks don't realize, but those so-called haoles was taking the Japanese people, you know, cheap. That's the only word that I can think about, now. They were looking down on us. That's the reason why---I'm going ahead of the time---when we came back (14:00) from the service, many of them went to college, got education, they came back home, they were politicians. That's one of the reasons why our level of ambition was higher. That's one other reason why, well, first of all, if the 100th Battalion didn't succeed in doing well, I doubt if they would have been any 442nd or interpreters. And we wouldn't have Japanese governor; we wouldn't have Japanese mayor; we wouldn't have Japanese American like Dan Inouye, Senate representative. I doubt it. I think we would still be those plantation days. But, when we got there we succeeded, when we came back, those days, still had the so-called Big Five plantation. They control the economy, you see? They control the---but when we came back, the time changed because the Democratic Party---majority of the veterans joined the Democratic Party. And that's where we have changed the ways of the Big Five. But I'm going to---I'm not going to that---the present situation now because that's a different story, but, like,---or maybe I can say a little bit about it. Now, we're having a contest between Governor Cayetano and Mayor Lingle from Maui, she's Republican, Cayetano's Democrat. In our days, I participate in campaigning with Sparky Matsunaga. (16:00) In those days many was AJA in the Democratic Party, and we struggle to be---to the Japanese American to have a better life instead of plantation days. But now, I This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 33 �read in the paper that---even in the commercial too---many Japanese people American, that's what you folks case too. See, I think they try to help the Republican side. They forgot that what has past in the--what has happened in the past that the Democrat Party helped the way of living in the States. That's about it. INTERVIEWER: So going back to, okay, so the plantation life, okay, so you didn't have a good experience then with your, okay---what would you say the majority of those workers that you worked with were they mostly Filipinos, lots of JA's? AKAMINE: Filipino, Filipinos. But I considered that the majority of them was well educated because I would say that they were educated in the Philippines, college graduates. They came to the islands to sign a contract to work in the plantation for maybe 2-3 years. And I guess many of them didn't go back because I played pool with them and they speak fluent English, well educated. That's why I learned something from them too, you know. Even if we play volleyball, togetherness, yeah? Even we used to get together (18:00) and play music like that. I would say, I begin---I began to love music because they were good in mandolin. So I gain something by working from 14 years old with plantation days, but I lost my chance to get more education because I didn't attend high school after 14 years---after I got 14. So there's two sides to that story. INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh. [Whispers]. Okay. Japanese schools. So did you go to the Japanese school? AKAMINE: Yes I did. When I was attending at Makawao School. The first--I was considered first three grades at Japanese school I was doing well. I used to get gifts, not gifts but prizes. But after that, I flunked. Get home I'm going to get spanking from my father. I don't know how the hell? Gee, I better now swear. I used to wonder, how did that message go to my home? Because by the time I got home, my father knew that I didn't pass the grade and the teacher, somehow, they used to get a communication. I don't know how he did it. But, we had a teacher, a Japanese schoolteacher; he was strict. He was a judo man, and we do something wrong, you know newspaper roll, roll, you know, thick roll, go up, whack! They were mean. You folks didn't get whacked from teachers, yeah? Nowadays, you do that, you get sued, but those days they know---they don't care about that. (20:00) But I was good for about 4 years. INTERVIEWER: So, since you have received up to 8th grade education, how---so did you feel you wanted to go back to school, I mean, do you wish that---is that something, or . . .? AKAMINE: At the beginning, I did. But as the time went along, I gave up going to---go back to school. I know they--because by then the friends that I had made, while working in a plantation was different type of people already, you know. So, at least we got it. But that's one of the reasons why I volunteered to get into the Army. Get in to something else. INTERVIEWER: Okay, before we go there, what sort of---what were your parents---did they play a large part in, you know, you worked but in---did they instill any values? Did you learn from your parents? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 33 �AKAMINE: Yeah, you folks gonna hear many of the things that---many of the veterans, especially Club 100 guys saying that, like, in my case, my parents used to say---especially I remember my father used to say, "Don't cause trouble. But if you cause trouble, you're not going to shame only your family, you know, your brothers, sisters or your father, mother, but your friends, don't make any trouble. Don't make shame for a family." That's, you know, you folks will hear many, many times from the Club, especially from the 100th boys. That's what made our group well, you know, great. (22:00) Can I go further on that? Okay. One year we had the memorial service, every September we have memorial service, all the islands, you know, each island the same day. But that particular year, at the Punchbowl [National Cemetery of the Pacific], the guest speaker was Colonel, oh, I can't, I forgot his name, but I remember he was in the 100th Battalion as a lieutenant, I think, then he volunteered to join the Air Force, so they assigned him to Air Force. And when he got discharged, he was a colonel, but in the meantime, he used to keep in touch with the 100th Battalion; what we're going through. Then he said that he used to wonder what made the, especially when we went to combat, what made the men do so well, no AWOL. Then he remember when he was a---he finished high school, I think they were living in Iowa, I think, and the pa(rents)---they're Germans, the parents are Germans. He told the parents that he want to go to college. So the parents told him "No." They wanted him to work at a farm for one or two years. And he said, "Those were the years that he feels that he was disciplined, to respect his parents well." And then he realized that, that must have happened to us. So one of the advice he gave at that memorial service was that, "Many of you, for the 100th that are doing well now, and you have your kids, your son and daughter, they ask if they can have a new car, they hardly hesitate, get a new car for them, pay up for them," (24:00) he say, "you folks are spoil the kids." And that's what happens many times, you know. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so, do you feel that your parents, you know, told you, you know, to, (inaudible) don't, you know, don't do---make any trouble. Did you make trouble? You never did? AKAMINE: Gee, I don't know. INTERVIEWER: [Laughs.] AKAMINE: Well, fights like that, yeah, we did, even when we were growing back, but before we got into the Army. But, oh, I hate to say but, we swiped some oranges, and we used my brother's sweater for the bag, and this Portuguese owner a came, we ran away, we left the bag, I mean, the sweater there and that was Saturday. So Monday morning at school, this is, you know, talking about school days, coming back home, I seen the Portuguese with the daughter, wearing the sweater, I couldn't do anything about it. We used to swipe oranges for New Years, one of the best oranges, anything that you swipe it tastes better. That, well, when we were in the service we used to have problem, a fight like, that's a different category there. But, as far as when I was in civilian life, oh, I think I will consider I was a pretty good man; behaved myself. Only thing is I learned how to smoke, and finally I quit in 1981. I learned how to drink. I still enjoy my drink. (26:00) But doctor told me don't drink more than three. I told him, "If that's the case, I might as well make it four." He said "No, only three." So, I went home I told my wife about it. She said, "What you gonna do about it?" Said, "Well, I'm gonna start drinking more expensive beer." So I start drinking the Steinlager, more expensive beer. Then I started drinking six. And once, wintertime, a This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 33 �little bit of whisky with honey, that's the best. Keep my body warm. I kept on drinking. You know, I tell my friends and my wife, she never ?squabble? because she knows my condition, yeah? Because for me, especially wintertime, the wools is very uncomfortable. You know, but I told her that, I don't want to complain because no matter how much I complain, can't do anything about it, because I have to live with this thing for the rest of my life. So, maybe in the mind, that when I drink a few beers, whisky, I forget about the pain. When I go to bed, I have a restless sleep, I mean, fine, fine night. That's why--that's one of the---I wonder what's the word for that now? Not da kine, some of the, gee, I forgot, I forgot the words, I must be getting old. INTERVIEWER: Pleasures? No? Oh, then I don't know either. I think, you know, actually, we can stop right here and take . . . BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO INTERVIEWER: Okay, so we're going to ask---talk about---after the plantation you decided you wanted a better life, you said, so, what did you do next? AKAMINE: I volunteered to get to the service in 1940 of November was the first draft, I missed that. So I applied again in 1941 March, I got in the service, they picked me. And then a story to that is that I would like---I want to see how the other people on the other side of the Big Island's big country's doing, how they live. But they transported lot of us to Pier 1 in Hilo. Soon as we entered the terminal there was a lieutenant, he started to command us, "Keep moving!" I figure, "What the hell I volunteer in here for?" But it was too late. But when we hit Schofield [Barracks], the National Guard boys were already in Schofield, you know, preparing for what might be the outcome; they were on emergency alert or whatever. But anyway, we were on a truck and I remember hearing some of the boys say, "Gee, I hope you folks don't hit Sergeant Flynn." "Who?" "Sergeant Flynn, (inaudible) he's a rough son of a gun." Went up Schofield, we used to call 'em "tent city," where we trained. I ended up in his platoon. And in the beginning, I thought, "Gee, I get no business doing here." But then I was glad that he was our instructor because he beat us up. He was strict, (02:00) that's all, and mean. And he talked, you know, like---you folks know what is close order drill? Close order drill means you walk in formation all the (inaudible). We used to be one of the best. Sometimes, he say, "Okay, ten-minute break," we're taking our break and then we get up again and the other platoons, they're taking a break, they used to watch us perform. We were good. So he used to joke with us and says, "You know, when you folks finish training here you first folks gonna join the pineapple army." He used to call the National Guard "pineapple army." And then when we joined, they send me down to souther[n]---South Point, we have close order drill sometimes. We used to make the regular National Guard guys shame. We, you know, our precision was so good yet, eh? But eventually we came to like this place. But, that was the question, eh? I'm glad I answered that one. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so when---how did your parents feel? How old were you when you (inaudible) in? How did they feel when you told them? AKAMINE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 33 �Gee, when I 1919, 1941, what's that, 22. I don't know but what their reaction was. I just told my parents and my sis, "I'm going." And then the community, especially Japanese community, they get together, they sort of form a parade, walk the street, main street, all the car [laughs]. I think about it, I feel so embarrassed, like we were politicians or whatever. (04:00) But I don't remember why they tell me it was. I don't remember that. I guess they didn't have---they had no choice. I wouldn't have given up anyway. I would still join the service. I mean, you know, Army, Navy or Army it doesn't matter what service but, I want to get away, see what I can see. Can't beat that. Very good. But even---later on we going to how I got wounded and all that? Okay, that (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: Okay, so what were you doing on the day of the Pearl Harbor attack? Where were you? AKAMINE: Pearl Harbor attack, oh, we were down South Point, Ka'u. We were building barracks, you know, the buildings. Two south buildings, sewer line and all that stuff. Then, in the meantime, we were considered as "alert number one," that means they expect something would happen. So we dug machine gun nest for ground cover, then up on the hill we dug another machine gun nest for airplane defense. Then keep us about seven [o'clock], we had the airplanes ready already. Keep us about seven; we were stunned. That---imagine that Japan attack Pearl Harbor. But there we had to be on alert. And, let me say this, though, (06:00) the South Point we were all using---when we were building the barracks for us, we was using the Air Force building. Then the Air Force outfit over there, I think, taking care of the air communication or whatever, because they were building the airfield over there. Whatever turf airfield that we have plan to make underground hangars and whatnot, but we used to have lunch at the--that Air Force kitchen. I'm going to tell you folks this; there were two Portuguese guys, the one guy one of them was married just a few days before the attack, he was blam[ing]---he look at me, he says, "Because of you guys the Pearl Harbor is under attack." And he was worried about that he bought the furniture, set of furniture for the wife and was worried about how the hell he's gonna pay for it, and he was trying to blame us because of problems that he have. So we had an Evangelista, Filipino sergeant, he told them, "Keep your mouth shut," he said, "because you guys talk to them much." He said, "You know, you can't blame this guys, they're Americans." But he said, you know, anytime if they assign him to be in charge of a certain group, if you have to go overseas, he said, "I forget about you guys." He would join us, eventually. So---but even, well, he died a few years ago, he took me down after the war started, a squad of us that he went down to Miloli'i, first time I heard of it, Miloli'i. The best hospit[ality]---Hawaiian hospitality I ever seen, Miloli'i, we go down to the village. (08:00) He took us there and I learned about how the Hawaiian, the pure Hawaiians, you know, down there, the hospitality, good deal. This Evangelista he was nice, though strict. The second night, I don't know how the hell he got, but he got a bottle of whiskey. That's amazing how he got the bottle of whiskey because you have to go up the hill that the first town, like, I don't know how many miles away, it's way down in the boondocks, but he got it. But anyway that's a different story, so we were down at South Point, Ka'u. Beautiful, quiet, very quiet, quiet area. You folks have no idea how quiet that place is. I mean, now it's different because you have some other people live in that area there, eh? But those days, one day this Alapai Hawaiian boy and I, we walk along the shore, went to this east side, we didn't talk for a while. Quiet. Only the waves dashing up, that's the kind of place that was, once upon a time. I don't know now, I think it's changed. They have some people from the mainland, they build their homes around it, I think, I don't know. I'm not so sure. But we were down at South Point. Oh, can I mention another one about South Point, another experience? You know, those days, they had a B-17 bombers, the biggest bomber, at those days. They used to fly thousands of feet above, and then we could see the silver silhouette. And then in our area, (10:00) South Point, they had targets, and those days they had for This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 33 �bombing, bombing purposes, bombing, gee, what's the word, now, for that? Anyway, something---a mechanism that they---they set that thing and they hit a target, and it's way, way up. They used to drop the dummy of bombs with sand, and one landed close to us, and nobody complained. Nobody complained. And one side on the Kona side, they had the rock cliffs, the Navy used to fire a target. Imagine if that thing went wild, but nobody complained. But imagine, though, oh, [Norden] bombsight, they used to call 'em bombsight. That thing was so secretive that the bombardier had it in a case, locked; he's the only one that could carry it up to the plane. But not too many people know that they used to have a bombing, bomb, bombing, well, bombing practice, anyway, in that South Point. And fishing ground, ooh, it was fabulous. I better not talk about that, it's something else. INTERVIEWER: So what---immediately after you heard the news or knew that Pearl Harbor was attacked, what was the feeling like or how were you treated? AKAMINE: Well, locally, it was all right. But like I said, these two Portuguese guys was trying to blame us that what happened, but outside of that, like the Hawaiian boys they was nice. Now, I'm gonna mention, when the morning came that we depart for Wood Valley, we were staying in Wood Valley, (12:00) there was one guy who owed me money, the money that I want to send to my parents. I didn't because he owed me the money, he didn't pay me. The morning that when we departed the camp, that Wood Valley, he never came up to see me to say he's sorry, that maybe later on he'll see me. Majority of the guys that came to see us goodbye is the Hawaiian boys. And this guy I'm talking about is part Filipino, FilipinoPortuguese something. Anyway, when we were on the mainland, I had a good friend in G Company, Santiago, Bill Santiago. He used to write a letter me, you know, once in a while. He told me about this guy who owed me money. I told him, I wrote a letter, I told him, "Bill, you tell him, he owe me money," I not gonna mention how much he owe me but, "tell him that if he thinks that I'm not coming back, he's mistaken because one of things [is], I'm coming back." All right, now, to make the story short, when we came back for Fort Kam, Honolulu, they were there, they came there from down under, from a South Pacific. And about four or five other ones lining up by the tent, you know, and Bill Santiago came to say, "Eh, Akamine, that the guy?" I went up to this guy, I shook hand with him, he told me he don't remember my name. I told him, "That's all right." Then when we got discharged, he was operating a bus. Bus, you know. So one day I caught the bus, I don't know how he remembered, he said, "Oh! Akamine I owe you money." I told him, "I don't think so." Said, "I owe you money." He picked me up twice on the bus and twice he mentioned it, "I owe you money." Every time he tell me that, (14:00) I tell him, "No, you don't owe me." That thing must be bothering his mind, all this years and good for him. I want it to be that way. He's that way, he be having a . . . (Inaudible) be nice about that come up for me to say that he cannot send me the money. He borrowed the money from me because to give it to his wife. He gambled his paycheck, he lost the money, so he have to support the wife. That's the reason why he borrow the money from me. And he's still living. Every time I would see, "Hey, I got a---I owe you money." "No, I don't think you owe me a money." You see, that thing's bothering him. It's gonna bother him for the rest of his life. Good for him. You know, I'm sorry, I'm going through different kind of side stories. INTERVIEWER: No, that's okay. No problem, you know, that's okay, that's good. Okay, so going back, though, how did you feel when you heard that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, how did you feel? AKAMINE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 33 �Gee, I don't know, only feeling right now according to my memory is that, how did they attack the United States? Of all places, Pearl Harbor, why did they attack? That's the only reason I have. I don't--but later on as we read the news, the United States were expecting that attack because they had advisors in Washington, DC, I forgot his name now. They were trying to negotiate, but after Washington they break up (16:00) that negotiation. The Pearl Harbor attack, they blamed Admiral Kimmel and General Short, to be not on the alert side. They, I think, they got---they court-marshaled them or they took them off of the service. They have admiral and general rank, it think they cut it down, so I think the family right now is negotiating. They did for so many years to negotiate that they try to clear the name admiral and---because it's not blame for them. It's up there, Washington. Those politicians, you gotta keep an eye. But the blame is up there. So the question you asked me, like, it's the only thing I remember thinking about it was, why did they attack the United States, you know, because we're Japanese, eh? Many of us are living in the islands. Why did they attack somebody that I know. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so right after the---they attack, you know, you---what happen to you after the attack? You and the National Guard, what . . .? AKAMINE: What, oh, you mean when we were down at down South Point? INTERVIEWER: After. AKAMINE: We were on duty 24 hours a day. Work, not work but stand guard and then build up some other defense fortifications like that. But it was hard work. Maybe, one week may be we took a shower only once, I think. And (18:00) we couldn't visit our parents except just before we left for the mainland, I think, we had a chance, somehow, to go back home to visit my parents. But we had to carry our arms. We wouldn't turn our arms in yet, you know, that particular time, yeah? So we went to visit my parents. INTERVIEWER: And what did they say? AKAMINE: I don't remember. Maybe they were proud or maybe they were afraid, but I don't remember what their comment was. I don't remember because, for me, at that time, the way I felt was that my main purpose to visit my parents was not the purpose to visit "them," my purpose was to visit my friends. And because they were---maybe the friends---some of my friends were discouraged that I joined the service and some of them was proud, maybe. You know, some of the stories that certain family, oh, I better not go into this one because this is family stuff. I have to be careful when I mentioned about that certain families. But, for me, I think my parents were proud of it. I think they were proud that I was accepted in the United States Army. So . . . [Siren noise in background.] CREW MEMBER: (Inaudible.) INTERVIEWER: (Inaudible) the noise. [Interruption in interview.] This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 33 �[Interview resumes.] Okay. Yes, so you mention that your parents were proud. AKAMINE: I feel that way. INTERVIEWER: Okay. So you've visited your parents and then you went back? (20:00) AKAMINE: I went back to South Point, and that's the last time I went to visit my parents, until I got discharged, 1945. INTERVIEWER: So then what happened when you got back to South Point? AKAMINE: To where? INTERVIEWER: When you got back to South Point. What were---what . . .? AKAMINE: Same duty. Then we were assigned to Miloli'i, then we were assigned to Kawaihae to help a different company, you know, there was a squad of us and there was enjoyable time. I mean, you know, a squad of us happy-go-lucky, yeah? So it was nice. Good thing we had a experience where, like, Kamuela's a cold country they had a barracks over there. And some of the guys from that E Company, maybe they didn't take a bath for one week, like us, we cannot help, but have to take a bath, we were at South Point, everyday we used to take a shower. Something I was curious, I say, "How the hell you folks want to take a shower on a cold day?" We just couldn't stand it. So we did, but when we were down at Kawaihae, about spooks, that's different. You folks want to hear about a spooks? INTERVIEWER: Well, if you want to talk about it. AKAMINE: Well its . . . INTERVIEWER: Yeah, yeah. AKAMINE: It's something . . . INTERVIEWER: Yeah, if it's interesting. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 33 �AKAMINE: . . . unusual, you know. INTERVIEWER: Okay. AKAMINE: Well, let's see, what time is it? Oh, gee, almost my beer time. You know, when we're Kawaihae, the Parker Ranch used to round up some of the cattles, to ship the cattles, they used to bring them down on the particular trail. Get down to the Kawaihae wharf, that wharf. The way that they used to ship the cattle to Honolulu was that the cowboy dragged that, (22:00) I mean, with a rope, dragging them into the water, and sometimes the dogs grabbed the tail, help 'em. And then they have something like, I think they used to call whale boat, you know, from Honolulu from the main ship. They used to put a strap underneath the cattle and with a hoist, they used to hoist 'em up on a ship. And sometimes you don't see the cattle anymore, the sharks come around. But, I'm gonna cut it short anyways, but the trail, three of us was got in the---that particular area there, you know. And one day, I want to see Hawaiian grape. So this girl from Kawaihae, I told her about it. She say, "Oh, you folks want to see it?" "Yeah, yeah, I don't mind seeing it." So she took us on trail and it had something like, you know, igloo formation, on the front got really the black (inaudible) blood, and I had a stick with me, had a cobweb, so I clear it, she told me, she said, "Don't do that!" I said "Why?" "Oh, you're not supposed to disturb," but it's too late, I just . . . "Oh, you shouldn't have done that because, sometimes - certain things happen, you know, you should have not . . ." You know, inside you can see the bones inside there. So, I went back, I went midnight shift. There was a large rock, we used to sit on the rock, and these two guys sleeping already but my duty was after 12:00, this was after 12:00. Sit on the rock, I see this dog coming down on the trail, brown, pretty big size, came down stopped across the road. Tried to chase away, it doesn't move, picked a pebble, I throw it, it doesn't move, all of a sudden I remember what the girl told me, I shouldn't have disturbed that thing. (24:00) I got scared, so I put a bayonet on. One more time, pick up a small pebble, I threw it at the dog. The dog took off, went up the trail. Next morning when it came daybreak, I told this two guys, I said [to myself], "I should have woke them up." Nah, you folks might call me the coward, eh? But that was an incident because that place is a---they have a Hawaiian history, you know, Kawaihae. So, I don't know, maybe it was something different, brown dog. (Inaudible.) South Point is another point---another place where you find mysterious thing. This guy, you know, Yeishin Oshiro, was sleeping. "Oy!" he yells sometime. He said something passed his chest, and over there had many Hawaiian graves, South Point. That's---you folks know what is fireball? We were guarding up on the hill, three of us, so this was after midnight, kind of windy, South Point was good--famous for wind, so I had to make shishi [urinate]. I came out, so I make shishi. You know, down below had a guardhouse, see. Just over the guardhouse, this fireball, grayish blue, goooo. I was so shook up, I forgot about shishi, I went jumped back into that hole. That's the only time I seen fireball. And people tell you, they mentioned that "that's a gas, a gas from the cattle," for instance, you know. And then when Hawaiian boy told me he said, "When you see that, yell loud." Said that thing would split. (26:00) But I never did, I never did see after that. That's the only time I see 'em, South Point. Some people, I think they don't believe you, you know, what the stories that we tell them. And I told 'em, "Excuse me, I'm going to have something else." Gee, I shouldn't talk too much, though. During the summer there, we have sidewalks, eh? We had built sidewalks, they call that some kind of a worm. You get up in the morning you see the worm but thousands of them, from the ocean side. They walk towards the east. Every step you give you have to step on these---couple of 'em. Greenish, I forgot This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 33 �what they call that. To clean the sidewalks, sometimes we used to scoop down with a shovel to clear it out, but there's a story to that too Hawaii history, I won't go into that. INTERVIEWER: Actually, I think we're going to change tapes. BEGINNING OF TAPE THREE INTERVIEWER: So, right before you were shipped over to Camp McCoy, what were---what happened? AKAMINE: Oh, we were at---I came back---one squad of us came back from Italy and we were the G Company, the camp was at Wood Valley. And then they assigned me to guard one of the ammunition dumps. And this particular morning, the sergeant came. He told me, "All Japanese boys turn in their arms, ammunition or what, grenade or hand grenade or whatever, because early tomorrow morning you folks to depart for somewhere unknown yet. And that afternoon and before dinner, we were having dinner at the H Company kitchen area. And we sat down on the ground and then Yeishin Oshiro, George Nakamura, myself was in that area there, and then there were many Hawaiians with some other nationalities. And George, I remember, George Nakamura told them, "Look at Yeishin Oshiro well." Because we--wherever we go, we going to combat, and if---and probably Yeishin Oshiro might not coming back, he might get killed overseas. So look at him well 'cause it's the last time you folks will remember him. So that was it. And then next morning, the majority of the guys who came to bid us goodbye was mostly Hawaiians, Hawaiian boys. (02:00) And this particular guy who owed me money didn't show up and then we left. But I remember George Nakamura's mentioning that, "Look at Yeishin Oshiro well, because he might not come back," and sure enough, he didn't come back. Well, he was my---overseas he was my assistant gunner, and even till today, only relative he have is in Kurtistown I think they call it. I never met her yet, but I understand she know who I am. But I should have go visit her. My wife made arrangements to visit there one day about a couple months ago, but we never did. But, see those---I think the sister or some of the relatives had the remains shipped to Okinawa to be buried over there because his parents was there. But I still have a good memory of him. Nice fellow. But to me, the sad thing was that when they told us to turn in our arms. Rifle, ammunition, whatever we have. You---for people who wasn't in that situation is hard to realize how---what their feeling was, like us, how our feeling was. But there was our future; we didn't know where we were going. And I continue to that, we were at Schofield for a while, then when we, supposed to be secret, they transported us to the pier, they loaded us on the ship, and you folks know where Aloha Tower is? Supposed to be secretive. (04:00) They---the people, the family doesn't---shouldn't know that we were on a ship going to mainland. But we were on the deck seeing Honolulu probably for some-for many of them for the last time. That---I still remember many ladies running, you know, the Aloha Tower on the top side, running, waving goodbye. Maybe they found out that their---I don't think many of them was married yet, maybe their sweetheart, older brother, whatever. So for many of them I think that was a last sight of their particular relatives. Then when we hit Oakland, we didn't know what it was. So we got on the train and then we move up. Then when we got to Wisconsin, Camp McCoy, first stop before going to the Camp was Japanese prison---prisoners, barbed wire. We looked from the window, gee, we figured that they gonna throw us in that prison camp. But, no, they took us to the camp McCoy Camp, tent city. That's the way it was. And then, I don't think we had the arms there. They gave us arms for few weeks, though. I remember. And most of the weeks we have calisthenics, hiking, trai[ning], exercise, that's all. But as far as arms that was issued to us, I don't know when. I don't remember when. Maybe some This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 33 �other boys they might know what, I don't. But I remember the first sight of Golden Gate. We're on the deck of the ship. What a sight that was! And after---since then, I see Golden Gate underneath, all--overpass or what, I mean, a few times already. But the first sight was fantastic. (06:00) So that's about it, oh, and then, another side story, little bit of a side story. We went Camp McCoy shower, only one section of shower, and this first sergeant was taking a shower somebody else was there, and someone stole his wallet. And Captain (inaudible) gave us a lecture on that next day. He said, "You know, back home, if something goes wrong you folks blame on the different nationalities. You see, you know, among us we have a crooked buddhahead." And nobody found out who stole that money. Still, we have crooked buddhahead. I---that---it, oh, that recorded already? Too late? Well, that's why I wouldn't mention names, see, but that's the truth. And then we realized, see, after all, even our own kind we have to be careful because you have criminal element no matter what nationality you have so that's about it, though. INTERVIEWER: Okay, why don't we---we'll go through Camp McCoy. Now, the one other thing you mentioned was that--how was the Camp and the people, the feeling of the community when you were there? AKAMINE: I don't know if coincidence or not or just by luck that they took us to Wisconsin, because that area of Minnesota, Wisconsin, many Scandinavian people live there. And they, I guess they had---they know the situation that we Japanese American, we been criticized. So they (08:00)---we were treated well up there. So the only problem we had there, the fighting we used to have for different ou[tfit]---different division. But as far as the people concerned, we had a nice time. We had a baseball team, those guys who was in baseball team, they invited during the weekend, transported by bus, go to that particular town, play baseball with them. I think they gave them dinner or whatever, come back. Then we were treated very nice. Talk about the Indians there (inaudible), a guy told me that he went on pass, and we--some of us look like Indians, you know, (inaudible) the whites, eh? This guy, I don't know how true it is, but he said he met a white and the white go, how! He figured he was Indian. He said, "Well, I'm not Indian, I'm Japanese. And some of the Indians, sure enough, they look like Japanese or some Japanese look like Indians. But as far as the hospitality there, I feel that it was good. It was great. It's a wonderful thing that they sent us to a northern state like Wisconsin, you know. And the people are friendly, the scenery was nice. Everything was a nice until the different outfit came up to Wisconsin, then we had a problem, fight every night. I went to doctor, uh, dentist, Captain Kometani, he checked my teeth. And one I had pulled, see, before I got in the service. He said, "How the hell you get a false teeth?" "You went fight?" I told him, "No. Oh, why?" "I thought if you lost in the---that tooth in the fight, I wouldn't treat you." You see, he wouldn't treat me. And one guy, Doctor Kometani, we had two doctors that were dentists, this guy had some kind of mark on his head, eh? He said, "You in a fight last night?" He said, "Yeah." "How the hell you lost you hair? You got busted up?" "No!" "Oh that's good." "I patch it up for you." You see, you got busted up, the heck with you. That's the kinda doctors we had, you know. Wow, wonderful dentists, good men. I mean, you know, you listening to people explain about our Battalion. It's a different type of people we had, all kind of people. And like Bob Jones said when he was a guest speaker on the memorial service, he said, "The 100th Battalion used to fight like hell, drink like hell, fight, you know, and combat, you still can't beat 'em." Yeah, we were like that. INTERVIEWER: Okay. AKAMINE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 33 �I don't want to talk too much about those things because some people would see me and say, "Hey, that's son of a gun, he talk like heck, boy." INTERVIEWER: It's okay. AKAMINE: Oh no, that recorded?. INTERVIEWER: [Laughs]. Okay. Okay, let's go move a little further. So when was your first---where did you first land? When did you . . . [Siren interrupts interview.] CREW MEMBER: [Inaudible 00:11:30] You need to ask the question again. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so when did you first go overseas and where did you land? AKAMINE: You mean when we left the mainland? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. AKAMINE: Gee, what were---what camp was that, we were in New Jersey? [Camp Kilmer.] I forget the camp name. We were there for, I don't know, two, three days. And then we landed in Oran, North Africa (12:00) and we stayed there a few days. Then we joined up to the 4th Division, we landed in Salerno, Italy. And when we got to Oran, the first woman I see with that what do you call that? Only the eyes open. Oh, man, I---we were on a truck for transporting to our to our camp. I had---I cannot describe how I felt. Imagine when lady with, you know, only one puka with the two eyes---for the two eyes. And over there, they had (inaudible) place, they had grape orchard, grape orchards. I remember one day this Arabs, we used to call Arabs, white pants, white uniform. This guy had a nice knife he said he made his self. You know, he want to sell us. You know, that thing was so sharp, you know, you could shave the hair here. Underneath here, you know that old time gulf pants, cut like balloon and get the strap or whatever. We asked some of the guys, "What---why do they wear that type of pants?" They say, "Well, those people they believe that one of these days Jesus Christ will be born again by a man." So that's the reason why they wear that type of pants. Jesus Christ is born then you fall on the ground on all the dirt. INTERVIEWER: [Laughs]. AKAMINE: I---oh, talk about that place. I never had any meal in Oran, that city. Peculiar kind of smell, (14:00) you know, I don't want to talk something dirty, but you see the young kids, they make doo-doo on the sidewalk. And we actually see one guy, stick or something he had, pick that thing up, I mean, draw some kind of pictures on the wall. I never did eat in town. Always go to, I mean, I did go to Red Cross. And This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 33 �then, the 34th Division guys told us that, "If you smoke pipe, leave in the camp. If you have ring, take it off." The 34th Division, they were there long before we were there. They're in North Africa Campaign, eh? So they say if you have a ring and then when Arabs around, he will like to have the ring, you cannot take it off, they'll chop your finger off. And the tobacco pipe, if he wants you, they shove that thing up to your throat and they take 'em out. Mean. Those guys are mean. So, a good experience. INTERVIEWER: So you were there a few days, and then from there where did you go? AKAMINE: From there we went to Italy, Salerno. INTERVIEWER: And then . . . AKAMINE: Well, let, let, let, let . . . INTERVIEWER Oh, go ahead. AKAMINE: . . . since I'm going to take you folks time anyway. You folks don't mind, eh? It's all the truth anyway. In a train, we got on the ship, troopship, and took training how to get down onto the assault boats in Cassino, I mean, Salerno. We train on a ship by climbing the cargo net or whatever they call it, with a pack. Climbed that then we climbed down, exercise and train ourself on that. When we hit Cassino, we use that. But you have the assault boats, we used to call them assault boats, maybe about a dozen or so, I don't know, maybe more. (16:00) But you have to time it, see. When the wave rocks that, come up, you don't jump. When it going down then you jump, you follow with that movement. Our Captain Bonin, he was good for nothing anyway. Oh, gee, I'm sorry [Mr. Akamine inadvertenly mentioned a name]. He was ahead of me. I was going down, wrong timing. Pok! He went on his okole. We couldn't help but laugh. He failed us, that man. I'll tell you a fact. In combat, he failed us. In training in the mainland, he was one of the great ones, but combat, no. I don't know what happened to him, but anyway he failed us. But from Cassino, I mean, Salerno . . . Can I continue? E---we have E and F extra Company so our F Company was helping to guard the airfield. It was windy one night. So, in the evening time before dinner, we used to steal the farmer's vegetables. But they told us---they warned us, "Don't take the vegetables because they use human waste to fertilize that thing." We took it and we wash it off then we cook. But certain times when the wind shift, stink smell. It was close by, had an ammunition dump, you know, got an ammunition dump. So one day there's Imai and I, we think---we go, "Let's go check what the hell that smell coming from." So we found a hole at the ammunition dump on the left side, they have a temporary grave, (18:00) American GIs. And then, they take the body out later on to take it to the, I don't know, permanent grave or whatever. But they let the Italian, I think it was the Italian prisoners, take the dirt out. But they never let the foreigners touch the body; American GI's take the body out. And talk about death, while we we're going overseas, they gave us two mattress bags. We used to wonder, why two? Later we found out one is for your own [and] one is for your partner when he died. So one is for your own when you die. So that's the reason why they had two mattress bags. So this body temporarily is in the mattress bag. And the smell, you cannot describe it. You cannot describe it. Ho! Even I'm talking about that I feel nauseous already. But then we used to go This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 33 �pass, come back. Then they say, "Well, we're going up to the lines." We up went to the line, E and F Company, but like I said later on, before Cassino, they split the two companies. So I went to Baker Company, very sad. That's why when I read or listen to, you know, we replacement like one of the Gis that we---they sent us a replacement of a different outfit. They must be lonesome son of a guns. Like in our case, it's not too bad. Like, I went to---our squad went to Baker Company was during the night, but we are for the same State. You see, you know, we know who we are, Japanese Americans. So local people, (20:00) the Hawaii people is easy to get along, easy to get together, you know. So that's one thing that's good. But the beginning, very lonesome. We eat day and night. In the morning, we get up, we have to find out who our next, I mean, our squad leader, our squad men are. Till today, I went to combat with them, but I don't know their names for Baker Company. I don't know. Some I remember well, some I don't. INTERVIEWER: So when you---when you're in---when you were there and you said you---that smell bothered you and made you sick. How did that---how does that---how did it make you feel emotionally when you were there? AKAMINE: You mean the smell? INTERVIEWER No. Not the smell. Well, because of the dead bodies. AKAMINE: I don't think I find anything bad about it. I mean, it's just that we were there for combat so I don't---I--for me, I don't think it bothered me. Only thing is they buried the temp, I mean, they buried under a temporary grave, but I guess when would attack us Salerno, temporary grave. So from there, they sent it to a permanent. Maybe that part that bothered me. I don't want to be buried temporarily and then take me out later on and send me to the permanent grave. I think that's what had bothered me. But as far as the other thing, I don't think anything bothered. Even the food we used to eat it used to smell, but the hell with it. But, I think that's one of the things that subconsciously I was worried about it, to be buried that way (22:00). I think that's what it is. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so after you left the---from North Africa you went to . . . AKAMINE: Salerno. INTERVIEWER: . . . Salerno. And what happened there? What was next? AKAMINE: Well, we attacked there and then the Germans start moving back so the rest of the Company---Battalion kept on moving. And then our E and F Company was staying back. Like I said, we were guarding the airfield, they had a airfield over there. And later on they moved us up to line, you know, E and F Company. Then, whether people were injured or wounded or killed, no replacements, that's why they thought to split E and F Company. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 33 �INTERVIEWER; And then you went to the B? AKAMINE: Then I went to B Company. INTERVIEWER: So then when---and what happened next when you went to move during the night? AKAMINE: Well, what---when we got to the Baker Company area, we have to worry about foxholes. But I think the other American troops they had made some foxholes. So the foxhole that I used, or me---we and--Yeishin Oshiro, I think, we used, we got hay from the stable---the Italians---we got a hay, we threw it in the foxhole and we used that to keep us ourself warm. So I remember the next day, one of the officers from the different regiment, I think, he came by to inspect. I remember he said, "Oh that's a terrific idea," to keep ourselves warm, eh? Yeah? (24:00) And then, Lieutenant Mitchell and Robert Oshiro were---they were in F Company and they were transferred to, I don't know, C or A Company. One day they were passing by, you know, Baker Company, and Lieutenant Mitchell said, "Oh, Akamine I need a BAR man, automatic rifle men. Why don't you come with us?" That---my sergeant, he heard that, he said, "You ain't going nowhere." I want to join them, you know, because we were in F Company, but our sergeant for Baker Company says, "You ain't going nowhere." But there was some sadness in that when we split up. But, like I said, our local boys we got over that fast because friendliness and all that, eh? INTERVIEWER: Okay. Now, I want to go to the other parts, so, I guess, we should stop here. BEGINNING OF TAPE FOUR INTERVIEWER: Okay, so can you tell us a little bit about right before Cassino, crossing the rivers---the river and that experience. Just . . . AKAMINE: Well, the river I---only experience I have is when we cross, you know, that particular time, took shoes off and whatnot, where we hit the other side of the river. Then we dry our feet, I mean, as far as I'm concerned and maybe some other men too, that we dry our feet and we put shoes on. Because, fortunately, those---that particular time the Germans wasn't close by, otherwise, we'll be wiped out. And like in Cassino, some of the 35th Division they got smashed because of Rapido River, how they cross, the Germans were waiting for them. But just like at Volturno, I slightly remember they told us to be careful or watchful for German tanks. But I don't remember that, maybe they might have fired at us, but I don't remember much about. INTERVIEWER: Can you just describe what---how deep and how the river was shaped, how you went? AKAMINE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 33 �I don't think it was more than waist deep though, that particular time. That can be higher or lower, you know, because when we went on the Bob Jones Battalion Trip, we stop at one bridge there, and Sakae Takahashi said, "That's the Volturno River." I told him, "What?" It looks so, so narrow although it wasn't so wide anyway. "That's Volturno?" "Yeah." Well, you see, depend on rainfall because we notice by the bridge, the wall, if they had debris where they had a high-water mark. (2:00) So, actually, when we cross it wasn't high. But I don't remember we had any struggle to cross that. So I think that was the right time for us, I think, lucky, just lucky. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so basically---so once you cro[ssed]---after you went up the Volturno River, you then were at Cassino, right? This is the battle of Cassino now? AKAMINE: No. Many days after Volturno River we must go up to the mountainside, up the mountains. They---we didn't call it mountain, we used call it by Hill 10, 10,000, I mean, not 10,000, Hill 300 or Hill 500, used to go by the feet. So only remember to have is we came down from the mountain, we hit the flat area. There was a town, I forgot the name of the town. Then after two, three days, then we started moving towards Cassino. But as far as Volturno, they mention about Volturno River crossing but, to me, it wasn't so---but the only thing is we made it well, I guess the weather was right for us. But Cassino was--that was something else. So I think we came down from the mountain, you know. They're not---not I think---I think Sakae Takahashi said we came down from Hill 10-10 or something like that he mentioned, wintertime. INTERVIEWER: So you---during the winter, you came down the mountain? (04:00) AKAMINE: Yeah, it was wintertime. INTERVIEWER: And what was that like? Can you describe . . .? AKAMINE: Cold. If that---if I was wounded summertime, I wouldn't be here today. Wintertime, that's why, well, later on, (inaudible) after I got wounded, I can go into that later on but, cold. One night up the mountain, I had woolen underwear. In a little while it was so cold, imagine me taking off my pants, my shirt and putting the woolen underwear on, putting pants on. I just couldn't help I was getting so cold. You know, the coffee with cold water one small can coffee can make about three, four [cups], put the whole thing in there to keep me awake, and it was cold. It's a wonder we survived. There's no protection up the mountain. You try to dig a foxhole, you can dig, most of the place you can dig maybe about six inches at the most, most of them were rocks, eh? Then you put rocks around the side, windbreak. That's it. INTERVIEWER: So how many days did it take to come down? AKAMINE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 20 of 33 �To Cassino? I don't remember. I don't remember. Let me go into Cassino then, if it's all right with you folks. Okay. When we got to the flat---the Cassino town, they told us, in the night, they told us to protect the rear because we might expect a counterattack from the Germans. So in the morning, daylight, somebody found a ladder, I think it was a wooden ladder. And they had a, I think it was a wall; cement wall or rock wall. And between the wall and the outside our dry area, was flooded by the Germans, (06:00) and they had the mine placing there. So we had Shim---Shimura---Shimogaki, I think. He checked the mines and he used to put some kind of marker on it. But anyway, in the morning, two of us, we carry our ladder, we put it over the wall. And I remember they were, I think it was C Company or A Company, anyway, another company, they were up the wall already. So I remember one guy told us, "Go back!" We didn't know what he meant, he said, "Go back, go back!" What he meant was we gonna hit a hell over there. So I was BAR man, you know, even one BAR we used to have, 21 pounds while you're loading the magazine, and each magazine is one pound, so I used to carry 10 [and a] bayonet, well, we was young men those days we were in top shape. So I got on the wall, I jumped into the flooded area, came up to the waist, and then I see one of our men got hit; rifle or, I don't know, a shell. I saw him turn around so I walk him back down to the first aid, I think. And another one got hit, he also turned around and went back. But we had no choice but keep on going. So we reach that dry area, dry land, you know, they had a wall. Machine gun, they had machine gun emplacement here, there or . . . From the monastery they were hitting us: artillery, most likely rifle and stuff like that. Then our sergeant was sitting like this against the wall maybe about up by the corner there [pointing]. I was on my knees. (08:00) I got hit on the head with a shrapnel, through. Those days I used to carry, you know, they call the steal helmet, then you had a shell inside, you know, something like a plastic shell, I have forgot, I don't remember those names already. And for---sometime during the regular training you take off the steel helmet because that thing's kind of heavy. You use only the shell---gee, excuse me, but I don't remember the name of that, and underneath they had strap, you know, to hold that thing up. But in between that shell and this strap I used to carry thick toilet tissues. The shrapnel, the first one I got hit, went through the steel helmet, pass me out, I went out, pass out. When I came to, oooh, my ears are ringing and I felt [the top of his steel helmet], "Gee, there's a hole there." So I went up to one guy and told him, "Hey, take a look." He say, "No," he don't want to touch it. 'Cause he figure I'm gone already. So I took my helmet off. The shrapnel was embedded into that toilet tissue. So when I came to I called the sergeant. I call him, then I notice blood down the face, he died like that. And Sakae Takahashi was close by he came to check, you see. "Hey, Akamine, go to the hospital." I told him, "I'm all right." Only think I needed a new helmet, that's all. "Go to the hospital have a check up. If it's all right you come back. But in the meantime, you help, like, Enomoto take Takeoka," who was wounded on the leg, "help him to evacuate him through the field of," what I call, "flooded field, take him to the (10:00) first aid." So I told him, "Okay." So, you know the automatic rifle became just like a brother to me, you know. So we have this Lieutenant Boodry, I think. I think it was Boodry. He joined us about a few weeks before that. So I told him, "Can I," you know, it was a stupid thing to say but, "Can I take automatic rifle with me?" He says, "No, you leave it here," they need more than I do in the hospital. But it's a stupid thing I . . . But anyway, I left it there. So I help Ernest Enomoto evacuate Takeoka. Then we got to I think it was A Company or B Company, then we took a break was dark already, you know, nighttime. I was on my knees talking and this guy Shige Hokama who was F Company, he was already wounded, he was one of them in the foxhole, he recognized my voice. Talking to him he said, "Oh, I got" [holding his left arm] on his left arm. While talking to him I got hit again. That's when I got hit on the hips. That was it, I couldn't move, I felt like the left leg was gone, you know, sort of like numb, but I feel kind of hot over here. So more coming, another one that was used to be F Company, close by, he had dug a large foxhole. So he recognized me then he helped me to put me in his foxhole. He shared his water with me, I remember that. I don't about the rations, but they couldn't evacuate me for two days and three nights. I think it was the second day, I told him, "Hey, Sharky, I don't think I'm gonna make it." (12:00) This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 21 of 33 �"What do you mean?" "I don't think I make it. In fact, if I don't make it, I have a wallet in my shirt pocket, so please send that home to my parents for me." He said "No, don't think like that, you'll make it." So, came the third night, the Battalion was called back, you know, to move back. So they have to take me out somehow, so the two persons who help evacuate me, before that I don't know, I wasn't delirious. Oh, before that, I will tell you something strange. We're below the monastery and, I don't think I was delirious, I thought I dreamt or imagined a man's face, long white hair, white mustache, beard, you know, you seen these drawings by Michelangelo over the Sistine Chapel, it's something like that. Till today I don't think I dreamt I don't think I would be delirious, but I saw the face, but I'm not Catholic, I mean, I'm classified as Buddhist. But anyway, these two guys have to evacuate me. They fell down a few times, every time they fall it hurts my back. So finally we got to a demolished building, I told them, "Leave me here. Leave me here, go ahead and when you first meet the litter bearers, explain to them just about where I am and come to pick me up." You know this, one of them, he spoke in Japanese. I couldn't speak Japanese but I understand what he meant he said in Japanese he said, "We are Japanese, don't give up." He repeat that (14:00) "We are Japanese, don't give up." Oh, that thing really helped my spirits. Said, Okay," they helped me up. Then finally we went---we reach farmhouse where Capt. Kometani and Chaplain Yost was waiting, it's one of those farmhouse. So when the litter bearers put me in there, one told the other that, "Oh, he must me the man that we're waiting for." So, okay, must have been the last man. So they check with the---how the outfit litter bearers, they came. So they carry me to the ambulance, the ambulance was so many yards away. You have to---four guys have to carry me and one sergeant in charge. And one of them was complaining like heck, you know, "This is hard for my arm," he was complaining. So I remember sergeant said, "You want to complain or you want to join the rifle outfit, get up in the front, and then get something that this guy received in wound? Or you want to be a litter bear[er] that carry help." That guy shut his mouth. He didn't say anything after that. They took me on the ambulance and the ambulance was a ride. It's not paved section, you're all in the rough fields, eh? Ooooh, I suffer like heck. So when we got to the, I think they call it evacuation hospital or station hospital, something like that, station hospital, I think. They put me on the top, top deck you know. I was hungry so the nurse came, I told, "Nurse, can I have something to eat?" she looks, she said, "If you have something to eat now (16:00) you have to wait another 24 hours before they perform a surgery, but if I give you give you only water alone, they can have a surgery performed soon as possible." In the meantime I was talking to the nurse, Shige Hokama was already in the hospital, lower bunk, he recognized my voice. "See, I made it." "Yeah." "I lost my arm." He was a rugged guy, but he used to joke once in a while. I thought he was joking with him. "Nah, I lost my arm." Then he pull the sheet over, he said, "Look," so I could turn little bit, yeah, I didn't see the left arm. So after I was perform a surgery, they move him to different hospital, I think. And there was another very close friend of mine, he got wounded in Cassino before I got wounded and I heard that he got wounded in the leg, but later on in the hospital he died because of loss of blood. But in my case, you know, like, my wife told some people, if it was summertime, I'd be gone. Because it was wintertime that's why I have shrapnels over there, they cut three surgical wounds, one is over 8 inches long, along the spine, because the doctor---the lieutenant---the officers explain to me later on, they did that because they was afraid the gangrene had set in already. That's why they performed the surgery if they had gangrene to clean out, but if the gangrene has---if it's summertime, I'm gone. Gangrene would set in because the wound was close to the spine, I be gone. That's why I'm joking, 'cause it hurt. That's the reason why (18:00) I'm drinking, I love my beer, but a second life. My wife, my three kids . . . Excuse me, I got to wipe my eyes. Excuse me, I didn't mean to . . . You know, I [sighs] was one, I think. Gee, what a lucky man, yeah, a really lucky man, though. And I'm classified as---I'm going to change the subject from that Cassino. I'm classified 100% percent disability compensation I'm receiving. 1972, I took early retirement, then about a couple of months later I applied for---I was receiving 70% those days, accepted through July 4th our service officer for surviving This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 22 of 33 �veterans called me up, he said, "Akamine, you got it, you got 100%." "Oh well, I better keep it quiet, I'm not going to mention it to my wife because she always said that I'm not going to receive 100% I cannot get it. People ask us, she say, "He cannot get it, they have his file way down at the bottom of the file," bottom of the drawer there. She used to---sometimes she used to crack me up. Saying, "He'll never get it." So when Vince ?Coy? called me at the service office, "You know, Vince, I'm not going to say nothing to my wife, I'm going to keep it quiet. Until the official letter comes. I'm going to leave it in that dining room kitchen, (20:00) let her read." He said, "No, don't do that. You call her up right now," no, that was July 5th, I think, yeah July 5th, "Call her up right now and tell her what you received." "Okay." Fortunately, though, when I start receiving that, this (inaudible), my wife went to UH Hilo took Japanese and, Japanese and something else anyway, tuition paid by VA. Our daughter, Allison, UH Honolulu, tuition paid by VA. All the benefit when a person get 100%. But, we have to suffer through it, oh, you cannot help it, because it's already done so, that's it. Yeah. But Cassino, oh, can I continue about . . .? Okay. While we went with Bob Jones, Sakae Takahashi was on the bus. Then we're going that was Rome on a nice highway, he said, "Akamine, you see,, kind of the monastery," "No, I can't see." "No, that's the monastery." So many miles away, you know. "Monastery," then I thought, "Imagine the, oh, below that we attacked and we used to call castle hill or something like. So I'm thinking, "Gee, that's the third time I'm going to see---I saw that monastery. The first time was in combat, the second time we went to Europe, Club 100 European trip, we had about four groups that time. But, that time, we just went to Cassino, we didn't have a chance to see the battleground area. But we went up that monastery, we saw that place, we came down. But it's third time, we went up, (22:00) three times now, third time I've seen that place. So the two buses stop on the incline. “Well that's enough we'll stop the bus,” then we look down. Ho, no wonder we got smashed, they could see right through, they could see down our throat. That's when we imagined, I mean, we thought, how fortunate that we stay alive. Many of us, we didn't say hardly, any words. Just thinking that we're there for the third time, I mean, as far as I'm concerned we're there for third time. But, you see, that's one of the great battles over that on Cassino. After that I was in a hospital, 23rd General Hospital, for at least five months. You see, the hospital that sent me to, that 23rd, was supposed to be 30-day hospital. So, about two weeks later one of the nurse there, Lieutenant Bingham, told me, “Oh, get ready, get, get your personal things, get ready, and another haole boy, I mean, a Caucasian from the mainland, get ready, because you two will be shipped to North Africa, not ship but, by plane to North Africa then they'll transport you folks to the mainland. So, I got ready. And the morning came, the nurse, she said, “Gee, sorry, but they made the hospital to 60-day hospital. So I stayed there. This other guy, I think they took him out, but I stayed there for close to five months. Same ward, same doctor, same nurses. I remember only two nurses, the Lieutenant Bingham, oh, she was nice, Lieutenant O'Connor, my doctor was Major Burke. In that short period of time (24:00) I was in there with all that surgical performance, you know, he must have done, he hair came white. I was stunned, Major Burke. But maybe it's a good thing that I was in the same hospital for---because if I had---if I was sent to the mainland, they would keep me longer there because they're not worried about taking you out. In fact, they want to send me up to the lines again, you know. I told 'em, I went back to the hospital, I told Major Burke, he said, "Well, in case they send me back to the lines, [if] you have pain, complain and come back again.” I didn't want to go up to the hospital, I mean, the up [to the] lines. The boys wrote to me, "You stupid!" But I didn't go, I didn't go back. We came home, fifteen of us, we came home. INTERVIEWER: Should we just stop here because I want to actually go back . . . CREW MEMBER: Yeah. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 23 of 33 �INTERVIEWER: . . . and ask some more . . . BEGINNING OF TAPE FIVE AKAMINE: My feeling is that when we are told that we are gonna attack a certain hill, then we have our equipment ready, combat pack with K-rations or whatever. So I used to feel nervous after we get---hit that particular hill or until we hit the enemy. And when they start firing on us, you know, your mind activate, you know, you---it's a matter of survival now. You have to---either you can get the guy first or they gonna get you. So you are very active, your mind is very active, you're busy. Come in the morning daylight, I look around, see daylight. I'm still alive, feels good. It---for me, it's hard to explain. I'm still alive! Then you look around or maybe one of the men is dead. Still then, it feels good. One of this guy, who got killed, he was a sergeant, every time we get a break he says, "You know after the war, when I get home, one of the first thing I would do is eat ice cream." He never made it. He never made it. So up there something---you promise so many things. I think they shouldn't said those things. I think that's a hard luck stories. I don't know, that's my imagination. But, you see, one hill we attack before Cassino, we attack in the morning, I mean, in the night, they told us this 168th Regiment or something like that, they couldn't advance fast enough. So our right flank was open. So call, you know, I call it open. So me and another guy from of Honolulu, (02:00) he was in charge of a squad at that time but he was a Pfc only, we're keeping an eye on the right flank. So he and I we made an agreement: if you see more---if you see only one person, one GI, one German, he will take a fire at the guy. If more than one, since I got automatic, automatic rifle, it's mine, targets. Just before we say that, the German guy was running down. “?Rumi!?” we used to call nickname too, you know. "?Rumi?, we want . . ." Bang! He must have hit that guy because that guy went down. Then he told me, “Men on our left flank!” And these two guys with white uniform, they might have been from Russian side, you know, like the winter uniform. So these two guys got up, the first one, I'm not sure if I hit him or not. But the second one, I must have hit him because he went down with my---over my rifle. When that guy went down, I thought, “You know, I think I got one of them.” You know, it makes 'em happy. And then in the meantime, you know, on my right side I had a large rock formation, you know. And one of our men laying down, he fell asleep. The sniper, we couldn't get the sniper, we don't know where he was. He was firing. He was trying to get either me, Tomi, or this guy. You know, just like western shows. You folks don't know about the old western shows. They hit the rock, ricochet. Doong! Doong! Go about three, four shots. So I told 'em, "Hey, I better go check." I crawl. I figure he got hit 'cause he don't move. I crawl, I listen, I look at his chest; chest go up and down. So I came back. (04:00) I mean, you see alive. When he woke up, I told him what happen. He don't remember nothing. But, you see, when you're trained, like us, we're trained to kill somebody. That's a idea of being in the service. So maybe it's wrong for me to say, but when I got that one guy there, I remember---I know that I got that second guy. It feels good. In Colli, this German guy maybe about 200 yards away, he was harassing the other members are coming up, you know, on the trail. So a squad of us were assigned to reconnaissance, close as possible to the German. Now this is different from the Cassino. So went up, the Germans right over there, right over the knoll or ridge or whatever they call it. So we got back---we're behind---we're practically behind the German lines. Then, we never go to the trail because they have what do you call that, lines with booby traps, so we avoid that area. Took us a long time to go back, though. But we were taking a break [then] “Enemy! Enemy!” I saw German that harassing our men. Lot of people, "You see it?" So I put mine semiautomatic. Lean against the wall. Pow! I would fire two, three rounds. Tomi said, “Enough!” So I stop. No answer for that guy, he went down, I must have got him. Then the German officer, “Hans!” I This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 24 of 33 �still remember the name. “Hans, Hans,” and the Ger[man]---the lieutenant was only about, oh, it was close by, you know, over six feet, he was a big guy. (06:00) I put my automatic rifle up to shoot. Tomi say, "Don't shoot!" So I back up. Probably, if I had shot him even if I killed him, maybe someone, a second [in] command or somebody would have come in find out "What the hell? Who the hell killed these two guys already?" So fortunate thing may be I held a fire. So we reached our company. After, our staff sergeant said he figured we were gone, we were captured. You see, because he heard a few fire, you know the rounds fired and it stop completely. And over there our shell was bursting into our area. A German shell was bursting into our area. That's the kinda time I must be living right, still alive. But, oh, and then this is another---it's a life story, not life story, but aside from that. That part there, we couldn't get the hill for, I don't know, so many days anyway. We leave the paratroopers that place. And we know one German was dead. And many times, we know it's a Germans 'cause they got canteen, you know, water canteen; they have cognac in there. And wintertime, when we got up the next morning, Tomi, this guy Tomi, that I call him nickname, Tomi, he said, "Akamine, let's tell those guys,” we have to pass I think it was A Company, we have to pass them so they ask us, “Where you folks going?” "Oh, we gonna try and pick up our rifle that's on---one of them left back.” So I went and (inaudible) he was, get up there, check the German (08:00), take the canteen off, get cognac in there, drink. Sure enough, that's what happened. Take the canteen off, smell, [makes sniffing sound] mmm, smell whiskey. He and I would drink up half of the canteen. So we went back to our company, the sergeant says, “What the hell you folks did?” So, “Eh, you folks want cognac, cold?” Say, “Yeah.” Said, “What is this? Only half, yeah?" Because we had some---we had a few already up the mountain. I mean, you know, funny thing like that happened, you know. But this German guy was good looking guy, you know. He was on the, just like wall. Brown hair. Crawled up, he would look over side. Well, he was found like this, I think [eyes looking skyward]. [Indicates side of head] blown out, dead. Good looking guy. I have a Chaplain Yost was with us while we hit the---one night---mountain, and there were two German dead ones. He's a---Chaplain Yost is not Catholic. What the other one now, what the other religion? Lutheran! So he told me and my partner, “Give 'em a hand.” We dig---dug a shallow grave, you cannot make a deep grave, shallow grave. We put the two bodies in there and we cover it with rocks. But in meantime, I switch this guy's wallet, Italian Lire, I took all Italian Lire. And he had pictures; about four---looks like family view. One woman, maybe in her 20s that time, and one was about maybe she look like 16, 17, and could have been a brother (10:00) of this dead soldier. Up the mountain they took picture. So I kept the picture. Today, I cannot destroy that. I don't know why. Oh, more than once, though, I took the picture out, uh, snapshots out, I want to burn it. But I never did, I still have it in home. I don't understand why I keeping it. Maybe there is a good heart in me, you know, something good about me and so keep that [photo]. I don't know, but I still have it. But, you see, when I look at that, every time when I look at it I figure, oh, gee, this guy was killed. Imagine how the family felt. So maybe that's the reason why to keep---help keep the memory that I'm keeping the picture. I don't know, it's something hard to explain. But I'm keeping it. But war is a strange thing, you know. But, like, one of the---one of our members said, you see, if they guarantee him if he---if---so that God guarantee him that he be back alive, you see, he don't mind going into combat. He says, “Sometimes lot of fun.” Well, that's true too. If you guarantee that you coming back alive, that's better than gambling the money in the casinos, if you know you're coming back alive. You saw in casino the money I lost last night? Ain't coming back. So there's so many things, you know. (12:00) And imagine when we were at training, to train how to kill, to survive. Amazing, human beings. But, fortunately, we weren't cruel. I don't think were any---there was any cruelty. One hill, we capture young German, he was shaken up, he was afraid of us. So I used to smoke those days, I gave him cigarette, light for him, he smoked the cigarette. And then in the night, you know, the mother, you know, the people said, everything happen, first thing you call is mother. Like Japanese they say okasan, yeah? Well, this one here, some of the Germans must have wounded. But by that time they had many young soldiers in German army because they were coming close to being This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 25 of 33 �defeated. In the night, you can hear them, "Mama, mama," sad. Even our own men---our own troops, they get wounded like that, you hear them mentioning okasan. That's a---that's the way you were born, you were born from a woman, eh? So that's the first thing you remember, mother. But when you hear those guys calling for their mother, I don't know. INTERVIEWER: So when you were injured, going back to being when you are injured, so how did you feel when you were in the hole or they put you in the foxhole, so what were---what was going through your mind? (14:00) AKAMINE: Gee, I don't know how to explain. I remember the medic came. He must have applied what do you call that, Sulfa on the wound. That I remember. After that, as far as surviving, like I said, I told Sharky, you know, he told us I think it was second day, I told him, “I might not make---be able to make it. So if I don't make it, send my wallet home,” I had my wallet with me in my shirt pocket. He said, “No, you can make it, you can make it.” That's the kind of thing that I thought I was thinking about. INTERVIEWER: Were you two talking of---thinking of your mother? AKAMINE: No. I didn't think about my parents. I didn't think about my parents, I didn't think about the family. Strange, though, but I thought about send them my wallet because I have the wallet and some records in there, pictures, to send that thing home, the wallet home. As far as, calling for my mother, no. Oh, that's another, oh, let me say this, my mother was working the plantation, the day she went to work in the morning, she felt strange, you know, she didn't feel so good so she told the rest of the ladies she's going to home, she's going back home. And that---about that---that particular time, I was wounded in Cassino. You see how close they are? And then on the Italian trip, had three sisters. The family had about six girls, only one boy. The boy went into the Army, 100th Battalion. He got killed in Cassino the day---one day before I was wounded, I think. (16:00) The oldest sister took, you know that Buddhist, that thing, that you put the senko [incense] and whatever. She took that and then we went to one memorial, they have---erected a memorial there. She put that thing over there, put senko, pray, and my wife helped them, you know, three sisters. And then we went up to Italy---that---gee, what the hell you call that place? Anyway, went up there, I was having beer and it's older---the older sister came, she said, “You know, when my brother died just about a same time,” he said---her brother used to love water, lot of water. So she always have had a glass full of water in front of the, I don't know what you call that Japanese stuff [butsudan] hotokesan or whatever, and it's with his picture. One day, the water spilled, that day he died. So she said it's hard to explain, for some people hard to believe, but when the incident happen to you and you are telling that because truthfully you're talking about it. So what do you---what I consider, yeah, that mother---we came out from the mother's womb, the closeness is over there, the father doesn't feel much like the mother. But anyway, that two experience I remember: my mother said just about same time she said she felt funny, she went home. And this sister, she said the water spilled. And, oh, she was at that time she was in (18:00) her 80s I think, 80s, she was old, you know. We went to Sistine Chapel and all the museum like that. She went, and she told us, she said she promised her mother before the mother, I think, before the mother passed away, I might be wrong there, but anyway, she promised the mother, one day, she will visit where the brother got killed. And I don't know how long it took but the three sisters visited Cassino. And by that time that place was all grow with grass and whatnot and you have a new highway. So Sakae Takahashi told me just about where I got wounded This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 26 of 33 �too, but that was across, like a (inaudible) wall. And later on, Sakae Takahashi called me and I was on a TV for a while, you know, that trip. But later on my wife said, “Wow, the cold!” I didn't feel cold. Slight drizzle. Then later on she said, “Fortunately it was wintertime, otherwise, I wouldn't have survived.” I wouldn't have survived. It's gangrene, yeah, as I was mentioning, gangrene set in. So that's merely luck included in our survival. INTERVIEWER: Did you have any sort of good luck piece that you carried with you? AKAMINE: The only thing that my mother gave me. What do you call that from the Buddhist church? INTERVIEWER: Omamori. AKAMINE: Yeah, something like that. INTERVIEWER: Okay. One thing I wanted to ask you before we went on to post-war was, you mentioned some stories like the one about Lieutenant Kim (20:00) not wearing his helmet. Can you just go over that? That you mentioned the . . . AKAMINE: Yeah, about . . . That's the same hill where I got this two---one or two of this German, and this Tomihiro got one guy coming down. Same area, but on the left side. I think it was Ito, he used to live in Honokaa on the Big Island. He got hit, severely hit on the chest, but I understand today you have to use cane or something like that. Anyway, he got hit, seriously hit. Colonel Kim, he was a captain then, no, he was lieutenant only, 1st lieutenant. We've seen him walking up to the men without a helmet, one of those wool-knit cap. He was a man like that---he must believe in religion, God, or just faith, to do those things. But he was a strict---we go into a combat, we come back, take a break maybe three, four days, rain, and yet nighttime, he sent us on a training patrol. Yeah, he, “Get out there, training patrol.” But that, I think that's one of the reason why they help, for us to survive, he was strict. But today, the last time I saw him, gee, he looked old when I talked to him. Once upon a time, he was young, but not only him, we are old too, eh? But that night, you see, when the Korean War started, he was assigned to Korea, and he was assigned as the intelligence officer. I think that's when, I think, he was promoted to colonel. You know Korea (22:00) was rough too, eh? Wasting a life (inaudible). But he was one of the men that I thought was very courageous. There's some other people, many of the guys that they say the courageous people. One of our members said one time to one group of us, you see, everyone of us supposed to get medal, Distinguished Service [Cross] medal, for instance, to be up there to fight this thing. Actually, we have the racial discrimination. Yeah? This, what do you call, Martin Luther King, eh? He did something after we attempted first of all. You know, like, Mississippi they went to---they went out to sit in a bus, way on the back seats. You go to a restroom, they wanted us to use the colored folks restroom. But we went against that. And we went---we had a few fights because they---these Southern people, they used to call us Japs, like, for instance, there's another fight. One day, our one pass we went to Hattiesburg. Coming back and a line on the topside, one of the Caucasians, I thought I heard him say "Japs" or something, you know. So I went up to him, I threw a punch, but he was way up the sidewalk. I think I missed him, you know, but this guy, Yeishin, you know, Yeishin Oshiro that I was talking about? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 27 of 33 �He was in the back of me (24:00), he used to smoke cigarette those days, tell me, "Akamine, enough!" So he had cigarette, the cigarette burn my fingers, oh, I almost punched that son of a gun too. I said, "I missed that guy," he said, "No, you didn't miss, you hit the nose," I don't remember hitting his nose. So I got into the line, he'd looked back, "I'm gonna get you." We were supposed to be on the same bus going back to the camp. “I'm gonna get you.” We got on the bus, look around, he wasn't there. I don't think he got on the bus. He went someplace else, caught a taxi or something like that. We would have smashed that son of a bitch. INTERVIEWER: So, we can go back, so you were saying that when you were just going---just talking about the---what--the bathrooms the colored versus, oh . . . CREW MEMBER: You might want to change tapes if it's a long question. INTERVIEWER: Is it long? No, it's quick. Okay, so just---can you go over that again, the discrimination that you felt or you had the colored versus white, you guys had to go to the whites or the colored side? AKAMINE: We help, we help. I feel, not only me, many of our 100th Battalion guys, we felt that we were ahead of Martin Luther King on this racial discrimination stuff. Long, long, long before he did. Only thing, our situation wasn't publicized, but for ourselves we knew what the discrimination was/ So the---what they call this? The thing that we did---I don't remember we fought with any Negroes, but we helped to put us together with the white man. But Martin Luther King, he was a different type of person, he was a reverend; he was at higher than we we're, but we we're on a grand level people. So I (26:00) still believe that we did well for racial discrimination. Even if you people, you young people, you folks go to the mainland, there's still some area still have discrimination, you know, against the orientals: Japanese, Chinese or Koreans, like that. So be careful about what---what you---where you folks go around, what you folks do. Don't be afraid to tell them where to get off. Because you folks are intelligent, you folks have education, you folks can tell them where to get off. Many of the guys at the mainland they open their mouth but, they don't know what they're talking about, they're stupid. They don't have common sense, yeah? Even East Coast, I'm sure some of the guy, the Caucasian, they think Hawaii is still a foreign country. They, you know, sometimes you meet those guys from East Coast they tell 'em you from Hawaii. "Where?" "Hawaii." "Where the hell is that?" Ignorant those brothers. The West Coast, like that, good, California all, you know, West Coast, they're all right. I cannot talk too much about racial discrimination. INTERVIEWER: Okay. [Laughs] That's good. So after . . . BEGINNING OF TAPE SIX INTERVIEWER: So after you left the hospital, you said you came back, after 5 months you came back. Where did you go? What'd you come back to? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 28 of 33 �AKAMINE: Come back to Hilo. I was assigned---okay, what they call that now? Message center, I can't think of the name of that. Anyway, it was sort of temporary outfit. I was taking care of message center, secret papers and whatever. Have it write down, I think. Gee, what the word? INTERVIEWER: Army Detachment Message Center. AKAMINE: What? INTERVIEWER: Army Detachment Message Center. AKAMINE: No, before that, what? [Interruption in tape.] . . . outside of Hilo. Message center. INTERVIEWER: And when you came back, how did you feel or what was---what did people say to you when you got back, did you feel any sort of discrimination or . . .? AKAMINE: No. I enjoyed it myself. People invited us and some time we met a fellow GI with us. Good food, again there would be good drinks. The sad ones was that---sad times was that one, like, for instance, one of my squad, he living Hono[kaa]---he was living Honokaa and the brother lived there. He did invited us to attend something, a get together for us. But his brother wasn't there. He was killed. That part there is sad, but they make us (02:00) comfortable enough that such a situation doesn't bother us. So we'd try to, but maybe we did our best to hide our own feeling about that, you know. But as far as going to certain party where we survive, no problem. And I, gee, the feeling of that combat was still there for long time. I got---on my brother-in-law's seven-seater bus going to Kohala going to Maulua Gulch, they were blessing some part of the wall. They blessed that, I duck. I was sitting on a middle chair, I duck. Natural instinct, but I duck then when I came to I figure, "Oh, man, I hope I didn't let some other people think that I was crazy or what.” It's instinct, you know, natural instinct. So many things, when we, as far as I know, that when come back from combat, certain sounds---you know the firecracker New Year's? Oh, I hate that. Christmastime, any kind of explosion, I hate it. But we have to listen to it because it's part of the celebration, but there's some instinct that I don't---I doubt if it will go away from us, it's in us already. So, you know, talk a little---I boast myself little bit but, when I was working blood bank, in (04:00) the beginning we could up---afford to donate three times a year, then later on they change to two times a year. I used to go every year, three times, two times. And sometimes when I miss, it used to bother my conscience because I had blood transfusion when I was in hospital, see, most likely I had. So I want to help, you know, pay back, sort of. But when they---finally they refused it, they said they cannot take from people who have high blood pressure, it hurts me. You know, it hurts me because I cannot supply again because of my condition. But, I must have given close to three gallons. It was a good feeling, though, good feeling. INTERVIEWER: Okay. [Speaking in a whisper] I don't how to say it. Okay, oh, so what did you do? What sort of, like, jobs did you do once you were discharged? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 29 of 33 �AKAMINE: Discharge? INTERVIEWER: After, what did you . . . AKAMINE: After I got discharge? Let's see, maybe about a year I work in a Hilo Transportation Turbine Company as a---part of the Parts Department, you know, something like a clerk. Then they release some employees. So instead of releasing me also, they assigned me to security guard. And then after that, they place me as a mail clerk for Hilo Transportation Turbine Company. One of the best job I ever had. (06:00) Busy. From quarter to 8:00 till about 4 o'clock, I used to wish that sometime I had about half an hour to go. But I was busy, busy, always on the go. I was in good condition. We used to have what do you call? Every year we used to have doctors, what you call that, examination, annual examination. One examination Dr. Haraguchi told me, “Mr. Akamine, you in condition just like a 18-year-old.” I tell him, “Really?" "Yeah!" Because I used to---I was always on the move, always on the move for working period, you know, the working period. But then I told him one day, “You know, Dr. Haraguchi, I'm thinking---looking forward to the age where I get to be 50. He said, "Why?" “I want to retire when I get there. He gave me a lecture for about 15 minutes. "Don't you ever do that. If you are able to work for the rest of your life you keep on working, you keep yourself active." You have to keep yourself active. Because through his, he said, through his experience, like, especially some officers from the banks, for instance, yeah? While their active, they used to---they have to use their mind and all that. Once they retire, what they gonna do? Then before you know it their mind deteriorates. You see, when your mind deteriorates your body's no good, you gone. So I kept on working till I was 62 years old. And the family, my wife, and my friend they gave me the party, red jacket. Red hat, I tell 'em, I ain't gonna wear that red hat. The red jacket, yeah, but the red hat, crazy! I look like a clown up there, boy. And not only family affair, it's a big affair. Crazy! I didn't get a red cap. (08:00) INTERVIEWER: So can we go back? When did---when were---did you---where and when did you meet your wife? When did you get married? AKAMINE: [Laughs] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. When I got discharged or before I got discharged, I think, we're living in Honokaa. And my wife, she was in charge of---they had the dry cleaning shop---laundry shop up homestead, we call it homestead. And our friend, Mikawa's---I used to go up to Mikawa's because he was---he have transportation, I used to give him a hand and he introduced me to my wife. So, “Okay.” Once in a while I used to come in from Honokaa, I'm right there in town, took her to the movies, take her home to Olaa. That's how we got close. And finally we got married. No! As---I better not mention the wrong date. Two August? Ah, forgot about the date, I forgot 'em. Nineteen---even the year, 1946 we got married, I think. August something, anyway. INTERVIEWER: And you have how many kids? AKAMINE: Three. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 30 of 33 �INTERVIEWER: And grandkids? AKAMINE: What? INTERVIEWER: How many grandkids? AKAMINE: Two, with 1 stepdaughter. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And then did they ever ask you about your experiences? AKAMINE: The kids? INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh. Or your grandkids? AKAMINE: No. INTERVIEWER: You don't. AKAMINE: Once in a while I mentioned about, especially the grandson, they get---they're restless, you know, attended college I tell him, “You know, Gary, get in one of the service. Army, Navy or Air force get in there, you (10:00) in there for about three years. You get a experience you come out, you get a free education. And I'm gonna mention to you that beginning basic training is rough, but you gonna get, if you set your mind, you get off from that basic training, I mean, you do well basic training, and then you enjoy yourself. You're able to travel all over United States, part of the world. And then, you learn something, you get out, you took college.” But still today, he never agree with me on that. But now, since my wife and I discussed about that, I don't want to push him too much because they still have the "young mind," eh? You don't know what to do. So once in awhile I give him a hint to join the service. Like I say, if he join the service, serve three, four years, come out and attend college. Our son, when he finish high school, “Now Kurt, join the service, Army, Na[vy].” He did apply for Army. They rejected him because he used glasses. He went Honolulu, applied at the Navy, same thing, they rejected, glasses. So one of our members he was a sergeant in 100th Battalion, he heard about what I'd---I---you know, I told my son. He say, "What you told your son to join the service?" "You don't understand or you don't---you forgot that the hardship we went through? Basic training?" I told him, “That's what I wanted to see that kid go through.” (12:00) But he didn't pass. Today, he's a---he went to San Francisco instead of art, you know. He got a degree, but the one I haven't told him--that I told him many times, go to business college. Never did. Today, I think he's working for a computer---computer, San Francisco. Funny, though, life. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 31 of 33 �INTERVIEWER: So, okay. What---we're gonna just close this up. So what would you like to say to the future generation, maybe? Is there a message that you'd like to give or share? AKAMINE: Gee, that's a rough---well, first of all, let me say this: I'm very happy that you young ones are recording this. Because, actually, this is for future generations. And then, the advice to the younger ones is that if able to or possible, get education. Get education, respect your parents, respect your relatives, respect your fellowmen. It's easy to put yourself as discriminatory area, you know. To discriminate this and that---no problem that. But you have to control yourself. Any nationalities---you think any nationalities there's intelligent one, not too intelligence ones. The one you think that is not intelligent, he's the smart one. (14:00) See, like me, my wife said, "Gee! Before you we got married I was quiet. Now I talk like heck.” I thought, “You know what happened.” My wife is talkative too. “That's all right,” I told her, “I'm from here.” Yeah. But as the years go by, you folks still young, you folks have a chance to experience what you folks hear, what you folks see. It's a wonderful life. You folks have all the chance to do that. I'm 79, maybe I live another five years, I be happy. And I told my wife I like to be just cremated. When I'm gone, cremate me and I have a nice photograph. Put that on display in the church or whatever. That's all I want. I don't want that---I don't want no people to see me in the coffin. Because, you know, that---your complexion or whatever change, so I want the people to find---remember the---how I look now. And when they look at the photograph, “Hey, after all, that bugger was a handsome bastard.” [Laughs]. No that's the way I want---that's the way I feel it supposed to be. So you folks have all the chance to be great citizenship. You folks have all the chance. The ability you folks---the chance that you folks have is doubl or triple the time that we had chance. But our time was discriminated, you know, orientals the best, especially. So you folks is---even the or maybe higher level than many of the other (16:00) nationalities. That's the way I feel. You folks have all the chance. So, take advantage of that. That's it. That's all my advice. I don't want to give too much I want to keep . . . INTERVIEWER: [Addressing the crew.] Yes, is that it? Anything else? Okay, good, good. [Addressing Mr. Akamine.] Thank you. AKAMINE: I wanna keep some for myself. INTERVIEWER: [Laughs.] This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 32 of 33 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Seitoku Akamine oral history interview, October 20, 1998 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Seitoku Akamine oral history interview transcript [full interview], October 20, 1998 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Akamine, Seitoku: narrator Tanaka, Diane: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1998-10-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1998OH0018_T_Akamine https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/a9e4b0c9933e392d948614e7f36351af.pdf 4ef9613e2e62c872178c9d7013ec5e23 PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Ronald Oba, October 20, 1998 INTERVIEWER: Ann Hashisaka and today is October 20, 1998. We are here interviewing Ron Oba of the 442nd Combat Team. On camera is Jason Inouye, on audio is Russell Nakaishi, and observing from the Sons and Daughters of the 442nd in Hawaii is Carl Tanaki. I'd like to begin by having you state your name, place and date of birth? OBA: My name is Ronald Masami Oba. I was born in Aiea on December 5, 1922. INTERVIEWER: Please tell me what company you were with and what you did as a job during the war? OBA: During the war? INTERVIEWER: Yes. OBA: I was with the F Company, at Camp Shelby, Mississippi where I had my basic training. And after the basic training, Sgt. Dick Masuda of the 1st Platoon, liked my cadence at the west drill field since I had taken kendo with a strong kiai voice. He said I'm gonna promote you to sergeant of the 1st Squad. So I was very happy and the very next day, Captain Akins called me in his office and then he says, he's a Southerner, and he says, "Oba, the master sergeant wants you in the kitchen." So I said, "Sir, I came to fight, not to cook." He said, "Oba, you wanna be court-marshaled?" I said, "No sir." And all kinds of thoughts went in my mind. As I thought, if he court-marshal me, I'll be discharged, disgraced and so forth so I said, "Yes sir," and I went to the mess hall and became the second cook of F Company. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Great. Let's step back in time a little bit and prior to your service as a cook, let's find out a little bit about what your life was like in Hawaii [00:02:00] prior to the war. OBA: I was born one of seven children of the Hamataro and Asayo Oba in Aiea. My father was foreman at the Honolulu plantation which is actually the Aiea Plantation Mill. But in 1933, there was a great big sugar plantation workers' strike. And he participated so he was fired so he decided to become a barber. And we have had a barbershop and called the Aiea Barbershop in Aiea for the last 50 years or so until my mother finally retired. And during my formative years, we were destined to become Future Farmers of America called FFA. The "Big Five" wanted to have all the children become farmers in the plantation rather than keep immigrant---keep hiring immigrants from Japan. So every Friday afternoon, no, all days of Friday, we were sent to the cane fields to cut the grass, water the cane fields, etc. So we were destined to become Future Farmers of America for the plantations. But, fortunately, the war started in 1941 and that's when I was attending the Iolani High School as a senior, and on December 5th, our history teacher said, "Before the weekend is over, Japan and America will be at war." You know, we were 17 years old and were more looking forward to the weekend, [00:04:00] going fishing and playing. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 26 �So we didn't pay attention to what he said. So on December 7th, about, before eight o'clock, I was having breakfast with my parents and on Friday, uh, on Sunday morning, we always have hot cakes as a treat. So we were having hot cakes Sunday morning, when I heard the noise bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. So I said, "Gee, that's so funny." You know, it went from this end to the other end, it sounded like firecrackers but it's too early to be playing firecrackers. So while I was deliberating what was that? I heard boom, boom, boom, see, from Pearl Harbor's direction. So we all said, "Oh, they're having maneuvers again," because the Army and Navy always had maneuvers with airplane pulling pylons and the Army fighter planes taking target practice at those pylons. Then all of a sudden, there was Vroooom! It shook our house, great big explosion. So I jumped out of my chair, I said, "Gee, that's not the maneuvers." So before anybody could say anything, I was running down to Pearl Harbor about a quarter mile from my home and along the shores of Pearl Harbor with the water lapping at my feet, I stood there and I said, "Oh, what a chain reaction." It is almost like a domino effect where the battleship was going up in smoke, then I saw the flame, then the next battleship started to burn. I said, "Gee, from one battleship to another, the explosion of fire is catching on." Then all of a sudden, I was looking up and I saw scores of Zero planes flying around in the air. And there were a lot of destroyers and cruisers very close to shore and they were being hit. So as I was watching, I saw a dive bomber come [00:06:00] from the Honolulu direction and hit into the Arizona battleship row. And I saw them, I saw the pilot drop his torpedo, and instead of going up where he can get hit by anti-aircraft, he hugged the surface of the water and came directly at me. And at that point I was more interested in seeing the face of the pilot. So I was watching the pilot and he was looking down at me and as he flew by, I saw the red circle of the insignia of the Japanese army, navy in this case. So I said, "My God, that's a Japanese plane." I said, "What is it doing here?" You know, Japan is too far, it cannot be flying here? So it cannot be Japanese plane. And all this time, it never occurred to me that we're being attacked and we were at war. And there were several other neighbors, Mr. Nagamine and Mr. Nakayama along the shore; we were all watching. Nobody believed there was a war on, even if there were explosions and smoke, and fire, until finally, the truckloads of Marines came by, and they yelled at us to go on home. So I ran back home and Mr. Nagamine and Mr. Nakayama saw this Zero in flames fall behind the present Pearl Ridge Shopping Center. And in those days, everything was cane fields except for little villages where plantation workers live. The whole area on Oahu was nothing but cane fields, very few houses. So it landed beyond the cane field into a macadamia nut orchard field and some of the boys went to look at the plane and they found two pilots burnt to a crisp and they were [00:08:00] taking souvenirs from the fuselage and again the Army truck came by and chased everybody away. And as Mr. Nagamine was watching, the soldiers pulled the pilot out of the cockpit and a piece of paper fell off his jacket. And he opened the paper and it was a map of Pearl Harbor and all the strategic areas were circled in red. So the Japanese pilots knew exactly where the targets were, where to hit. Now, consequently, there were all kinds of rumors that the plantation workers went out in the cane field, and cut a swathe like an arrow pointed to Pearl Harbor. There was sabotage at the electric plant, et cetera, et cetera. But the FBI director, Mister, his name was Shivers, and another person investigated all these rumors for a long time. And after over a year, they made an announcement that there was not a single case of sabotage or espionage by residents, Japanese American or Issei residents living in Hawaii. And this is not to discount Japanese nationals who were spying and knew exactly the currents of Pearl Harbor, et cetera, but no sabotage or espionage by local residents living in Hawaii. So, the people of Hawaii were exonerated in terms of all this rumors. INTERVIEWER: How did that make you feel to know---see that they had been bombed at Pearl Harbor and that war was imminent? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 26 �OBA: Well, as I said, [00:10:00] we didn't take much recognition of what the history teacher told us but, that very night December 7th, all our parents were so fearful that whoever had the picture or photo of the emperor, burned it, a Japanese flag if the had. They buried Samurai swords and short wave. Those days was all---the radios was short wave and we heard through the rumor mill that if you have a short wave radio that can be converted into a transmitter, you better get rid of it. So everybody threw it away or buried them. And my father-in-law, future father-in-law, the Reverend Hakuai Oda, was rounded up that very night at midnight and he was taken to the Honouliuli Detachment---Detention Center from where he was transferred to Sand Island and much later sent to various location on the mainland and finally he ended up at Tule Lake [Relocation Camp] where he was considered---the hardened criminals were put in there. And my father-in-law was a minister, very gentle and he would not do anything to harm his country or Japan. Right after the war, we all worked for the US Engineer Department. There are many jobs. Some people worked at Red Hill Building, huge concrete tanks, underground tanks to store oil for Pearl Harbor. I worked for a reinforcing steel company and we build a great big ammunition magazines at Weslock and at Lualualei, and we went there everyday [00:12:00] and build this great big concrete magazines, actually great big bunkers with a railroad coming in to the entrance and depositing torpedoes, anti-aircraft bombs and artillery shells. So after about a little over a year, there was a morale committee in Honolulu led by Mr. Hung Wai Ching; president (Regent) of University of Hawaii, Mr. Hemenway; president of McKinley High School, Mr. Carey; and Mr. Sinclair [president of University of Hawaii], and very prominent people who supported the Japanese Americans, because in Hawaii the haole's knew that the discipline attitude of Japanese children who were at the University of Hawaii. So the morale committee went ahead and wrote to General Emmons who was the military governor of Hawaii, and through him to President Roosevelt, to use the Japanese American boys in a more effective way than just digging ditches and placing a barbed wire fences around the island. And as you know, that same week that the Pearl Harbor attack occurred, the University of Hawaii students who were in the ROTC were summarily discharged because they were Japanese American. And the boys refused to be discharged and doing nothing so they formed what they call the VVV, Varsity Victory Volunteers, and they went around digging ditches and whatnot. So Mr. Hung Wai Ching who was the counselor at the Atherton Boarding House, knew of all these boys, and he was instrumental in trying [00:14:00] to utilize these boys in a more effective way. As a result, President Roosevelt finally agreed and said that we should form a special unit called the 442nd Regimental Combat Team. And that's when there was a call for volunteers and I was asked to attend the gathering at Aiea gym by Captain Burns who later became Governor Burns of Hawaii. And as we gathered at the floor of the gym, Captain Burns was on the platform and pointing to us, "You are on the spot. You must volunteer to prove your loyalty." He said that over and over. And as I listen, I didn't take kindly to this kind of talk, you know. I felt that I was a true American and I didn't need to prove my loyalty, so I made an analogy, like, if a fowl walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, I said, "It must be a duck." So, I, as an American-born citizen, went to American school, educated as an American and, I hope, I spoke like an American, so I said, "I must be an American." And as an American, I felt that loyalty was a given. But as 10,000 young boys from the islands volunteered to serve, I thought, well, rather than prove my loyalty, I'll prove---I'll show my patriotism, because the country needs us that's why they're asking for volunteers, so I volunteered. I was one of the first to be taken into the 442nd Regimental Combat Team and we were sent to Schofield Barracks where they [00:16:00] outfitted us with all our khaki uniforms. The sleeves were too long, the pants were too long, shoes didn't fit us, and socks are to be folded over because they were too big. So my cousin who lived in Wahiawa told me to bring all my clothes to her home and she shortened my sleeve, shortened my trousers and she fixed everything up and within two weeks we were headed for the mainland. But in the meantime, one of the boys from Aiea camp came looking for me very worried, he said, "Hey Oba, you know I have three children two twins and another girl and I can't die, I have to This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 26 �come home." He said, "Show me how to cook." I said, "I don't know how to cook." I only served as a bus boy at Red Hill when they were building this oil tanks for storage for Pearl Harbor and a bus boy just cleans table you know." But he said, "anyway, help me, help me cook. I want you to help me train to be a cook." He was in Charlie Company and the 5-2-2 Artillery Battalion, and so I said, "Well let's take out the cookbook and see how they make pancakes," because he was asked by the first cook to make some. [Interruption in tape.] INTERVIEWER: You wanna start with that then? OBA: Okay. Where shall I start? While we were in camp---Schofield Barracks in tent city, Charlie Higuchi came looking after me and said, "Oba you gotta help me," you know, "I will have to be a cook so I can come home. I have three children, a twin and a girl." So I said, "Charlie I don't know how to cook, I was only a bus boy at Red Hill. You know, bus boy only clean tables. He said, "But show me how to cook." So I went to his tent, his company area and [00:18:00] the first thing we had to do was open the cookbook and try to make hot cakes. So we read the book and made sure that the all the ingredients were put in, you know, you whip it up and then he says, "Lift up the whip and if the the flour batter comes down slowly like oil, then it's ready. But if it drips too fast or it doesn't drip it not ready." So we mixed it up, put some milk until the consistency was right and we fried pancakes. And as a result, for two weeks, our Schofield barracks helping him. I'd never gonna pass to come home except for the last day of our stay at Schofield where, well, all my friends were going home almost every night. So I was there, and then finally, two weeks after being inducted as volunteers, we were asked to board the Lurline in Honolulu. So, we rode the train from Wahiawa, Schofield Barracks, all the way to Honolulu. And we had to carry our duffel bag, everything from soup to the sink was in there, and I was about 120 pounds and all my friends were very small, and we struggled. We struggled to carry our duffel bag to the Lurline, which was over a mile away. In the end, were dragging it on the streets and all our parents heard that we were leaving. So, on Nimitz Highway, today it's called Nimitz Highway, the parents and friends were about 10 deep on one side and the soldiers with their rifles were holding our parents about 10 feet away from the 4-4-2 boys marching toward the Lurline, and I really felt like I was a prisoner. [00:20:00] Our parents couldn't come across and give us leis, or give us envelopes that were going-away gifts and whatnot, and the soldiers were keeping our friends and parents at bay, and so finally we boarded the Lurline without saying goodbye or hugging our parents and were on the Lurline off to California, Oakland. It took us seven days to get to Oakland, and the first day on board, they came looking for, "Oba, Oba, where is Oba? They want you in the galley." So I had to go to the kitchen and serve sandwiches and oranges. And I thought to myself, "My gosh! I hope this is the end of my doing KP duties and helping with the kitchen," you know. So in Oakland, we got into this Pullman train, they were all blacked out, completely blacked out. You couldn't see in or you couldn't see out. So we took the northern route going from Oakland to Wyoming, Colorado, Chicago, and from Chicago we came down into St. Louis, Birmingham, Alabama, and finally to Hattiesburg, Mississippi, which is the town just outside of Camp Shelby. We reach Hattiesburg about high noon and we just sat and sat and sat and waited, just like the Army, hurry up and wait, but it wasn't so. What occurred to me then was, by the time it got dark at 6 o'clock and the trucks came rumbling and told us to get on the trucks, I realized that the blacked out Pullmans and going to the Camp Shelby at night [00:22:00] was to allay the fears of the citizens of America from seeing Japanese Americans in American uniforms. So we truck into Camp Shelby at night and they told us to sleep at any bunks or any hutment, those barracks were called hutment, pick any hutment any bunks. So, we were so tired, I just slept on a bunk thinking that I could sleep till eight in the morning. So at 4:30 in the morning, somebody come "Oba, Oba they want you in This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 26 �the kitchen." So I said, "My gosh! What's happening here." So I went down and there was this one first cook he was in a hassle trying to cook food for 200 boys all by himself. So he told me, "Pass---serve the eggs and bacons" and whatever we had for breakfast, so we got through that. And then he said he's gonna roast some meat, and while he was roasting he said, "Make some gravy." I said, "Gravy, how do you make gravy?" He said, "Look in the manual, cookbook." So I open the cookbook and he says, "Get a pan and melt some butter, couple of pounds of butter and sprinkle some flour until they got nice and black for the gravy, brown gravy, and when you got that done, pour some water in it." So I got a pitcher full of water, couple of pitcher full of water and poured it into the pan. And globs of gravy was floating in the water and I didn't how to break this globs of gravy in the water. So I told the cook, "They're all floating." He said, "Throw it away." So that was my first experience in cooking and making gravy because I was supposed to put the water slowly and melt all that the flour and butter. So I spend my days in the 442nd Fox Company as a cook. But during basic training, we run to the west drill field and after awhile [00:24:00] Sergeant Masuda, Dick Masuda, who was our platoon leader, asked me to count cadence and get the boys on the drill field going back and forth, front and back and all of that. And he liked my strong voice because I used to take kendo at Aiea Hongwanji. And as a result, I was able to yell out loud, loudly and Masuda said, "I'm gonna promote you to Sergeant." I said "Oh, wow, terrific," you know, "I'm gonna be Sergeant in the 1st Squad---1st Platoon." So the very next day, Captain Akins called me and I thought "Oh, here comes my sergeant's stripes, he's gonna promote me." So he says, he's a Southerner, and he says, "Oba, mess sergeant wants you in the kitchen." So I said, "Sir, I came to fight, not to become a cook." He says, "Oba," said "you wanna be court-marshaled?" I said, "My gosh, they're gonna court martial me, I'm gonna be discharged and disgraced," and all kinds of thoughts went through my mind. So I said, "No, sir," and I headed for the kitchen and that's how I became a cook. And they sent me to cooks and bakers school, and later on they send me to butcher's school, so I became the second cook. All the rest of the cooks and sergeant's stripes were taken by the mainland boys who are already in Camp Shelby. And as a result, this was one of the reasons the Hawaii boys and mainland boys from the very beginning didn't hit it right because the mainland boys who were on the mainland was sent to Camp Shelby to clean up the place and greet the Hawaii boys. So when the Hawaii boys went to Camp Shelby all the noncom positions were already taken by these mainland boys. And of course there was this language barrier, [00:26:00] doing pigeon English talking with a guy who spoke like a haole so there was all kind of fight. Said, "What, you making fun of me?" And mainland boys spoke so perfect English that I guess it embarrassed the boys from Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: Let's take a break. CREW MEMBER Okay. INTERVIEWER: We need to change our tape. OBA: Okay. BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 26 �Could you discuss for me what it was like with the Hawaii and the mainland boys? How they got along together or didn't get along together? OBA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And how they resolved any differences they might have had? OBA: Well, when we first went to Camp Shelby the cadre or the enlisted men who had stripes were there to train us and basically they were almost all mainland sergeants except for few sergeants who came from Hawaii and made up the compliment of the Camp Shelby companies, and as a result there must have been a few resentment among the boys that all the stripes were already taken. And then as they started to socialize, the mainland boys spoke perfect English and the Hawaii boys would say, "You go stay go and I go stay come" and the boys, mainland boys, didn't know what that meant. And the guys would say "I told you, you go stay go and I'll come later," you know. Said,"Oh. That's what you meant?" And then Hawaii boys would say, "What, you making fun of me?" and they would have fights and all that. And at one point, I understand this maybe a rumor but the military talk of disbanding the 442nd because they was so much dissension among the mainland and Hawaii boys. Then they tried all kinds of things, you know, like, USO social gatherings and whatnot. But then Chaplain Yamada finally decided that maybe this Hawaii boys better go to Jerome and Rohwer and see where their parents are and where they came from, why they volunteered from this relocation camps. So he took busloads of boys to Jerome, actually, and when the boys [00:02:00] went there, they were greeted like, you know, long lost sons of their families and they were given a party and they were entertain thoroughly. And as they were ready to come home, someone found out that the residents of this camps had spent two weeks of their ration to make okazu and food for the boys. So they say, "Wow, they spent two weeks of their rations. Wow, how terrible." And then and as they met some of the boys' parents, the guy that he just licked and had a fight with, they came back very sober, somber, rather, and humiliated and very, very quiet in the bus. They weren't playing the ukulele and singing songs, and when they came back, all this infighting had stopped. And so we had further training, we went to maneuvers to Louisiana, Georgia and so forth, and one day the inspector general came to see with General Marshall whether 442nd was ready for overseas duty. And we have this field exercises, testing, and when the inspector general was standing over this guy, he was doing push ups and he was saying hundred one, hundred two, hundred three so the inspector says, "That's enough, that's enough, you're going overseas." So the 442nd boys coming from plantation and working in the pineapple and cane fields are very strong, hardly any fat, I was about 120 pounds, five feet five, that was about the average size of all the boys, and going over obstacle courses 25-mile hike, 8 mile forced marches. We broke almost all the Third Army records. And later on we found out that there were engineers, doctorates, [00:04:00] high school and college grads. We were all mixed in the 442nd. And many of these boys wanted to go in the Air Force or the Navy or more sophisticated services, and as Japanese Americans, we couldn't. So as a result, well, a lot of high school and college grads in the 4-4-2 and before we went overseas, someone said the 442nd was the most highly educated outfit for it's size in the United States Army, and I think that was true. So anyway, we headed for Norfolk, uh, North Carolina was it? or Virginia where we went to the port of debarkation and we were ready to go overseas. By that time, the submarines the German submarines have been subdued, but there were a lot of submarines still in the Atlantic, and there were over 100 Liberty ships going across the Atlantic and we were---the 442nd was in one of several Liberty This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 26 �ships and we departed Virginia. I forget what day it was but we---it took us 21 days for us to get to Oran, Africa. Other ships landed in Naples and other ships landed some part in Italy but the port were so devastated with sunken ships that we were sent to North Africa, Oran for two weeks. And after two weeks we were shipped to Naples on a British ship, and we realized that how lucky we Americans [00:06:00] were because on the British ship, all we got was pail of murky brown water called tea. They put milk in tea and they put sugar in it and then if they serve any kind of food, it was also in a pot. And everybody had to scoop whatever they could from the pot. And everyday there was some kind of dried fish, herring or whatever they had, and maybe an apple or maybe an orange. So that's what the British ships served and we realized that, that's what the British people ate and we were very fortunate when we got to Naples, we started to get fresh meat, baked loaves of bread, all kinds of fruit and so forth. And from there we bivouac for a while until all the 442nd troops got together. And incidentally, the 442nd Regimental Combat Team was composed of three battalion: 1st, 2nd, 3rd Battalion. But when we went overseas, the 1st Battalion left only their cadre, only the sergeants who were to train more troops for replacement. So the 1st Battalion boys all were deployed into the 2nd and 3rd Battalion. So, like, F Company was overstaffed because the boys came from the 1st Battalion with the anticipation that when we got to Italy, the 100th Battalion would join us and they would become the 1st Battalion of the 442nd. But because of their military prowess and their reputation, 100th Battalion retained the title 100th Battalion Separate, 1st Battalion of 442nd and we had our 2nd [00:08:00] and 3rd Battalion, and that's how we met the 100th in the port of Civitavecchia just above Rome. And 100th Battalion boys were supposed to enter Rome but they were stopped by a general and told to wait outside the gate while all the haole outfits went into the open city and went in as conquerors of Rome. And 100th Battalion never was allowed to go into Rome so they diverted then came to Civitavecchia where they joined the 442nd as the 1st Battalion of our regiment. And our regiment was composed of the three Battalions, the Artillery Battalion anti-tank, Cannon Company, Engineers, Service Company, 2-0-6 Band, Chaplaincy and Medical Detachment. So, the regimental combat team, I guess, was designed to be very mobile. It was one-fourth the strength of a division, but during the war it was proven that regimental combat team could move more swiftly and fast and hit the enemy from all directions. So when I mentioned this to another haole outfit, during the officer development program, one of the officers said, "You know Ronald, you said that because of the make-up, you folks were effective." He said, "I don't believe so." So I said, "Oh! What, what do you mean?" He said, "You were effective because you guys were great soldiers." So it was a compliment for us and I don't know which is true, whether we were a very mobile outfit or at the same time the boys, Hawaii boys, were steeped in Japanese [00:10:00] customs and traditions. You know, we were taught shushin, which is Japanese lessons in "on," respect your elders, respect your friends, etc. And then we also learned the Bushido spirit where you fight and like Dan Inouye says, his father said don't bring shame to the family, which is all right. But then when I talk to Mineo Inuzuka when he told his father that he had volunteered, his father said, "I don't wanna see your face again." So Mineo said, "Wow, what did I do?" you know. Then he realized that the father was saying, you fight for your country and if you die, you die, and don't come home. I don't wanna see your face again. And that's what he meant. So this is the kind of tradition we were brought up with and perhaps this is the reason why we fought so hard and many of my mainland friends tell me that, whenever they go in the front, they wanna be right next to a Hawaii kid. The reason is, if you ever got hit, the Hawaii boy will never abandon him, he would always pick him up. So several of my mainland friends, Los Angeles friends said, "I always wanted to be next to a Hawaii soldier." So that's how we went into battle in Italy. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 26 �Do you think that growing up in Hawaii, there was some other Hawaiian cultural values in addition to Japanese values that made them look out for someone who is next to them? OBA: Yes, I think, you know in Hawaii, they have what they called the Ohana system where everybody's supposed to be family, [00:12:00] especially the orphans, are quickly adopted by a family. They don't even know the orphan, but the Hawaiian system like that, they always adopted an orphan or some youngster who needed help and they would invite 'em to the home and raised them up, send them to school. Although, they were not related by blood and, as far as the Japanese immigrants were concerned, we---when they first came, they lived almost in lean-tos until the plantation built one bedroom home, one living room, and a kitchen and they had outhouses and so forth. And the homes were so close that you can hear them cough and, like somebody says, "You can even hear them fart." So, they were so close and everybody knew each other and everything you did, everybody knew, so it made the family very close. And we had Japanese schools, and every ken, like, I was a Fukuoka-ken, so, Fukuoka Kenjinkai had a picnic one Sunday and then Yamaguchi Kenjinkai had a picnic, you know, the following Sunday, and when you went to 12 different provinces, every month or every Sunday we were going to picnic with people of different kens. It didn't matter as long as we knew they were going to picnic at Nanakuli or Waianae, we all went and we had a grand time. We were very close knit and everybody shared. And when we went to basic training and through the war, whenever we had beer rations or whiskey, cigarettes, Hawaii boys would always share. I didn't smoke so I always gave my cigarettes away. And when we were with the British for a short while, the British [00:14:00] have whiskey rations. They gave us whiskey and I gave it to the boys. But I noticed that the mess sergeant and some other mainland boys who were in the kitchen with me, always kept it to themselves. I don't think they meant to horde anything, but because mainland boys our families lived far apart and not in a small plantation village, they became very independent, almost defensive. So, the style of living was very different from the Hawaii boys. The Hawaii boys would go to the PX, they buy a case and everybody would squat and sit around till the case of beer was gone. A mainland boy would come to the PX put his dollar down, buy a couple of beer. He would take the beer and he would walk out and drink by himself, which is all right, nothing wrong with that. But I'm just mentioning that we had a different way of socializing and the Hawaii boys were always eager to share whatever they had. INTERVIEWER: Do you believe this translated to the battlefield where they shared and they were looking out for one another? OBA: Definitely. Definitely. There are so many stories about, not my personal experience, but when the boys were wounded, the aid station was very close to the front lines. Our 4-4-2 aid stations were one of the few aid stations that was as close as can be. Most aid stations you have to carry the boys way back, but our doctors and medics always stayed close. And there are several stories, not only one, but one story I want to relate is, a guy that hit on his leg, amputated, and he had a tourniquet on. So, [00:16:00] he was in the aid station waiting to be treated, but there was a lot of casualties that day. So, he kept telling the medics, "I'm okay, take care of the other guys, I'm okay take care of the other guys." So, by the time they got to him, he was dead. He died from loss of blood and that's only one of the few stories I've heard about somebody saying, "Take care the other guy, take care of the other guy." So, this is one of the stories. And I understand, because of the aid station was so close, Dr. Ike [Isaac] Kawasaki who was with the 100th, instead of waiting for the wounded to come to the aid station, he would run over to the This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 26 �front lines and pick up the boys and bring 'em back. And one of the process, artillery barrage got him, and he---I saw him, he's a good friend of mine, had great big scars on his leg and half of the calf muscles were gone. And I said, "How did you get it?" "Oh, I just went to the front line go pick up some of the wounded and got hit." And that's the way they were. INTERVIEWER: I understand the cooks were also that way in your company as well, they were feeding these men on the front line. Could you discuss or elaborate on that? OBA: Okay. Let me start with Camp Shelby. When we first started to cook at Camp Shelby, we were on American rations and we got rice about maybe once every two weeks, 25-pound rice bag. And first thing the mess sergeant told me was, "Make some rice pudding." I said, "What?" He said, "Make some rice pudding. Cook the rice, put some milk, sugar, and raisins and serve." I said, "Are you crazy? You wanna get murdered by the Hawaii boys?" He said, "Well, what you wanna do with the rice?" So, I was thinking to myself, I said, "Why don't we wait till we get 100 pounds, wait for four rations of 25-pound bag, the we cook whole thing." [00:18:00] And we would splurge, everybody get a good scoop of rice with their steak or hekka and whatnot. So, that's the way we cooked the rice in Camp Shelby. And later on, we learned to barter our potatoes with the 69th and 85th Division boys. And they would get the potatoes and we would get the rice. And being the second crew and cook and being one of the few Hawaii boys in the mess hall, at that time, I was kind of fair skin and everybody thought I was a kotonk, but I was really from Hawaii, and a ser(geant), mess sergeant knew that. And because we had so much hassle in serving rice because the boys wanted more rice, more rice, I ended up always serving the rice. And when the boys said, "Give me one more scoop," I said, "You wait, wait till there's extra rice." And they always listen to me, because I would say, "You wait, wait till everybody goes through the line then, if we have extra, I give you some more rice." But somehow, the mainland boys couldn't do that what I was doing, and they were afraid to serve the rice. So, I ended up serving the rice all the time. And one day, Frank Dobashi, our first cook, decided to make some nice yellow layered [layer] cake. And, you know, you make a cake in a big pan. We heard that the women's auxiliary from Hattiesburg was coming. So, here they come, all the ladies came and he was very proud that he had put some icings on the cake and he served the ladies this yellow layered [layer] cake. I think, one of the ladies wanted to be very complimentary and she said, "Sergeant, this is the best cornbread I ever tasted." You know, cornbread supposedly coarse and dry and when the ladies went out the door, Frank Dobashi was so incensed he grabbed the pan and threw it out [laughs]. [00:20:00] But anyway, as far as cooking on the front lines, during the Arno River Campaign, we had a stalemate. The Allied Forces were on one side of the river, the Germans were on the other side. The Arno River was too wide to cross, so there was a stalemate of about five months. And during that five months, the boys would be running around the garden looking for vegetables, looking for chicken, looking for eggs. And they would be cooking their food in their helmet. So, one day, mess sergeant said, "Take a field kitchen---field stove, and go to the banks," where the 2nd Platoon was situated, and they put me in this sanitarium. And I guess we must have made a lot of noise unloading the field kitchen and all that, the pots and pans. So that night we had terrific barrage and I was in this sanitarium sleeping in a bunk and the artillery shells and the mortar shells started to hit the building and I woke up, I looked around, I didn't hear anybody moving, so I said, "Gee, I'd better not be a coward the first day on the front line and run away, see. So, I put the blanket over my head and stayed in bed and I saw the roof giving away. I could see the stars in the sky and there were more and more holes in the roof but I stayed in bed, then I finally fell asleep. The next morning, when I got up, I didn't see anybody in the sanitarium. I said, "What happened?" So, I went to the back of the door and I looked and they all had foxholes already dug up and everyone of them were sleeping in the foxholes. I This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 26 �felt so abandoned, [00:22:00] so angry, I yelled at the top of my voice I say, "Hit the deck, hit the deck!" and woke everybody up, you know. And so [giggles], so Sergeant---Lieutenant Takao Hedani said, about several weeks later I saw him, he's from H Company, he said, "Oh," I took kendo from him, he was a school teacher, he said, "The boys said you're a brave soldier." I said, "What do you mean, I'm only a cook." He said, "You stayed on the sanitarium when it was busted up with artillery shells and all that. You're the only stayed in there." Because, I was a damn fool, I didn't know what to do, first day on the front lines [giggles]. INTERVIEWER: Why don't we go ahead and take a break? BEGINNING OF TAPE THREE CREW MEMBER: And speed. INTERVIEWER: Let's talk a little bit more about your experiences as a cook, other stories that might have happened while you are out in the front line? OBA: Yeah. The 442nd Regimental Combat Team was very peculiar in that, whenever the boys went into the front lines, ordinarily, we would be pulled back into the real echelon and wait until the boys come back and that's what the haole outfits do. But 442nd, being peculiar, want the supplies and cooks and everybody to follow the troops as close as they can to the front lines. And as a result, all we had was Krations and C-rations and all these dry food following the troops. We never got fresh meat or fresh vegetables and things like that. So all of a sudden, captain says, "The boys are coming off the line for one day. Serve them hot food." So the mess sergeant says, "What we'll do is we'll warm up the gallon can of beef stew." I said, "Beef stew? You know, they eat that everyday in a smaller can all cold," and he said, "Well, we can doctor it up by putting fresh tomatoes, round onions and green onions and doctor it up." But I said, "You know, C-ration is C-ration, one comes in small can and one comes in a gallon can." He said, "Well, what do you suggest?" I said, "Well, tell the boys to pull out that field range from the truck, lift it up, put it on the ground," and there was a garbage can, you know, we use that to hold all our flour, "and you can leave it there, I'll scoop some flour out of that." And we had lards those days, big blocks of lards, and we pull out [00:02:00] two boxes, uh, two blocks of lard and I got the flour and I knew the percentage of mixture like maybe one-third lard and two-thirds flour and I kneaded it and kneaded and I put some baking soda in it---baking powder or baking soda, and we had the field range going and the field range is a fantastic cooking equipment. You can cook stew on the bottom or you could put a pan on the top with a cover on and it became---becomes an oven. So, I put---so I kneaded the flour and the lard and little salt and baking powder and I rolled it out and with the empty can, I started to cut off all these biscuits. And the sad part was that all the farm children were all around the stove, they were hungry, and we could cook just enough biscuits for the boys and I know they were gonna come in a few minutes so I cut all this biscuits and put it in the oven and as they came out we started to serve the boys and it was---I baked enough biscuits to serve the entire company and we didn't have enough to give the children, but the boys later told me, they said, "Oh, that was the best biscuit I ever ate." This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 26 �As you know, if you eating dry fruit, K-ration and spam, anything hot would be great. So that was one of my experience that I was very satisfied that the boys liked my biscuits. Now, another time when we were---the boys were on Hill 140, G company was there first and they got busted up and the E Company was sent there, they got busted up, and finally F company was ordered to secure the hill, Hill 140. And the Hill 140 was famous [00:04:00] for the "pink house." There was one farmer's house called the pink house and only safe place you could be was behind that farmer's house. And the bombardment just put that house into rubble, but then one day I had to take rations, the K-rations in a jeep and as we climb up the hill right up to the pink house, the artillery barrage started to come and it is estimated that during that two days, over 18,000 rounds of mortar shells and artillery shells landed on the hill. Only---and this is only during the period when F Company was there, one of the boys counted all that. So as the shells started to come, Sergeant Wakamatsu said, "Run or jump in my foxhole, so I jumped in the foxhole and he jumped over me and by God, the shells landed and one shell landed so close to us that I had debris, dirt and whatnot and hot shrapnel falling on our back. And later on I found out that as a result I got a perforated eardrum. And, fortunately, Sergeant Wakamatsu told me to jump in the foxhole. But, after that, the front line troops always made sure that when the cooks came up to the front line to feed them coffee or serve them meals, they always made sure that they dug extra foxholes for the number of cooks coming because when we go up there we don't have a foxhole and we're out in the bare ground so, thereafter, they always dug up foxholes or they call it slit trenches. So one day when---in Southern France when we were taking some hot coffee and some hot food, the boys came through the forest quietly in line, and this time they had their mess kit and coffee cups. [00:06:00] And I had just served hot coffee into Private Shimabukuro's cup, and he got his cup, he had walked only about 10 feet away from me and a sniper bullet, boom, went right through his coffee cup. So that's how close we were serving hot food in the front lines. There was another time right after Hill 140, I had to take some food up, again ration, not hot cooked food, now. In the front line, you couldn't take too many hot food too often so I was taking food and then I had a detail of about five or seven men, one guy had a mermite can of rice. Another guy had bread and another guy had some kind of meat and two of the boys were carrying five-gallon cans of water. And as we came up the hill, the Sherman tank was shooting, loud noise, bang, bang, bang across the hill and then the German Tiger tank was shooting 88-mm guns at the Sherman tank so they were having a tank battle. And as we came up, there was a loud, there was a Japanese lieutenant, I can never forget his name. I mean, remember his name and I said, "Where is F Company?" He said, "On that next hill." So---and then the tank battle began again so I thought I gotta get away from this ridge. And I saw a faint trail going down the valley so I told the boys, "Come on, follow me." So while they were having this battle, I led the boys down the hills, down through this vineyard, a small little faint pathway going down, going up and went to the Fox Company. And we unloaded all the rations and whatnot, and then we came back coming down the hill, coming up the hill [00:08:00] through the vineyard. And as we started to come up to the rise, the tank corps were clapping hands and the lieutenant was clapping his hand. I said, "Hey, what's going on?" He said, "You know, each company guy went through that minefield and he got blown, we couldn't find his body. And you guys went both ways, that way and came back. I said, "My God, why didn't they tell me there was a minefield," you know, but they were too busy fighting the enemy, see. So that's another story about the 442nd cooks always sent to the front line. We were with the troops practically in the front, very front of the---with the enemy. And then when we reached Southern France, I remember somewhere in the Vosges Mountains, after we had taken Bruyeres, we were asked to take some hot food. In Bruyeres, we had our kitchen setup where we could cook hot meals, so we were asked to take some hot food and we had hamburgers, a pot of rice, corn, and some pineapple tidbits. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 26 �So, we ride into the dark at night. So dark, you couldn't see the road, practically. So we found our way slowly to where F Company was and out of the dark shadows, a huge lieutenant comes out and that was Lieutenant Rodarme. And he said, "Oba?" I said, "Yes." He said, "What you got there Oba?" I said, "We got hamburgers, rice, corn, and pineapple tidbits and coffee." So, he said, "Serve only the hamburger and rice." I said, "How come?" He said, "The boys gonna come without their mess kit. The enemy is just over this field about 50 yards away." So I said, "Okay." [00:10:00] And he said, "They'll come through the line. You just sit, stand here and serve them. See, they'll come with two empty hands." So, out of the blue, I mean, the dark night, somebody grabbed my hand you see. So, I put a hamburger in his hand and I said, "Where's your other hand?" So put rice in there and the whole platoon went through like that, grabbed their hand, put the hamburger in one hand, the rice in the other hand and I was very happy to turn around and get out of that area because, like he said, the enemy is right over there. So, that's another incident of serving hot food over there, and then there was another time when we took again a ration of food in our jeep trailer. And we went up the hill and they told us that the road going down the hill to the other hill is being bombarded periodically. The other hill was Hill 132, so, Kato Matsuura---Matsumura was my jeep driver. So I said, "Hey Kato, you know, that road over there is in the valley and the Germans can see us. As soon as we hit the bottom, they're gonna see us, you know." So, one saving grace was that the Germans were so methodical, so regimented that when they bombarded that area, you knew that maybe five minutes later, they will bombard it again and you could time them. So we waited for the first barrage then we watch the clock. He says, "Okay, it takes them about four minutes before they send another barrage." So, I said, "Kato we're going down that hill and you don't stop, now. We're gonna beat that next barrage there, we gonna go on the other side." He said, "Okay, okay." So, as soon as the barrage ended, Kato and I and I said, he said, I said, [00:12:00] "Shift it into gear, go!" Said, "Go, go, go!" So we ran down the hill and then, in the process, we didn't see a great big branch in the middle of the road, see, because we're up high, so Kato goes over the branch and the branch goes "squeeeak" and making all kind of noise, and Kato being a jeep driver, stops him. He want to take the branch out of that. I said, "No, Kato, go, go, before we get hit!" So, he screech, screech, screech and went just beyond that and the artillery shells came. And, you know, I said, "Kato, you're a jeep driver, you have to take care of your jeep. But I'm a cook, I gotta take care of the rations, and we gotta---rations gotta go." [Giggles.] So, we beat that artillery down the hill and we went over and we we're able to deliver the goods to our boys on Hill 132. And then another story that I can relate to you is when we were finally passed Bruyeres and all that, we were decimated after the rescue of the Lost Battalion and we we're sent down into Nice, France, the French Riviera. where half the time we we're on the beach watching the topless girls swimming. Oh, not swimming, they didn't swim, but they were bathing themselves. But the French girls, you know, they always bathe topless and they were very, I don't know whether their modern or very advanced, but they didn't care, they just frolic on the, there were no sand, all this rocks and pebbles. But anyway, we were doing a holding pattern again, waiting for our regiment to come back into full strength. So we were deployed along the Alps from the Mediterranean ocean through about several hundred miles up to Northern, I mean, up the Alps and we were way up in Sospel. [00:14:00] And in Sospel, our platoon was deployed up on a great tall mountainside and then Sospel was a village down below. And everyday we had to take rations on a mule train and we didn't know how to pack the rations on the mule so we had some mule skinners from Wyoming and Texas. They would tie it up so that the rations won't fall. And they were very good, only one mule fell off the trail. And I remember while I was taking rations up and Yoshio Kawamura was the cook up on the hill, we would again come to this bend down the valley and the Germans could see us going around the bend with the mule. So every now and then they would This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 26 �throw a barrage and the mules knew that when they go around the bend, artillery shells would land. And the mules wouldn't move, and we were so scared, I said "Boy, if these mules don't keep on moving, we're gonna get barraged at, we're gonna all get killed." So after one incident, I cut a long branch, just like the koa branch, long enough so that if the mule should rear up and try to kick me, he won't reach me. And no matter what you did, whether you hit him or you yell at them, the mule will not move, [giggles]. But I found a sure way of making the mule move, so I got this long stick and as soon as we came to the bend, the mule will stop so what I did was, I'd poke that stick right in the okole of that mule [giggles] and he didn't like that. So the mule go ka-gak-gak-gak [laughs], he go forward and sure enough, that's when the shell would land, you know, in that area. So, that's how I got around the bend in taking the food ration up. And then later on, when Kawamura was sent down to Sospel, I was sent up to replace Kawamura. And here I was, way [00:16:00] up about 6000 feet above sea level up in the Alps and they had a kitchen tent up there. When I went up there, the kitchen tent had more holes than canvas because the German soldiers would be shelling the mountain and the shrapnel would tear the kitchen tent and there was a field range and I cooked fresh eggs, sunny side up, hot cakes, toast, coffee, and I served the whole platoon for several months while we we're up there, and I hope the boys appreciate getting hot food way up in the Alps, right on the top of the mountain. So, that's one story. And then finally, after we left Sospel, we were, one platoon was sent to Mount Vesubie. There was a hotel there run by a Mr. and Mrs. Dimello [Millo] and for the first time in our career, we we're able to stay in this hotel, sleep on the sheet in a regular bed. And after several months there, we're finally ordered to move out and when Mr. and Mrs. Alexander Dimello [Millo] found out that we were moving out, she said, she's gonna give a party for the boys. So, we all sat down at the kitchen table in the hotel dining room, and she served orange squash soup, which was very delicious. It was the first time I ate a squash soup and then she had potatoes and a small piece of meat; they couldn't afford too much meat. It was a small tiny meat and all the boys enjoyed it and there was a nice little sausage, [00:18:00] no, not little sausage, a pretty long sausage and when we cut into it, it was blood sausage and after the meal was over, I went to the table and nobody ate the blood sausage. And we---it's not because it was blood, but Hawaii boys never tasted blood sausage. They don't know what blood sausage was, you know. I know in Hawaii, the Chinese and Filipinos always use to make, cook food with the pig's blood so, but the Japanese never cooked food with pig or chicken blood. So, everybody left the blood sausage. I felt so sorry for the hotel owners because she took so much time to stuff the spinach and put blood and tie it up and bake it and nobody ate it including myself [laughs]. So, and then also while we we're there, I had the use of the hotel kitchen and whatnot and Lieutenant Hill, one day, wanted to invite the captain of another outfit, which was on the side of us. So, Lieutenant Hill said, "Ron, you have some food that we can serve the captain?" I said, "Well, you know, we have fresh meat and we have potatoes." So he said, "Oh, good. Let's make some steak and bake potato." I said, "Instead of bake potato, I'll make something special." He said, "Okay." So, we had all the side dishes and then I had the steak nicely cooked and I learned how to make a potato au gratin, which is you make bake potato, I mean, you cook the potato then you mash it, put enough butter, salt, a little milk, and what I did was I kept a cheese on a double boiler [00:20:00] on the side and as soon as the Captain Hill and the other captain sat down, I put the steak on the plate and I put the hot cheese mixture with the potato and you mixed it. Because if you let that cheese get cold, the mash potato with cheese wouldn't taste so good, but hot is so delicious, I took it over and between 5-10 minutes, captain says he wants some more of that mash potatoes. So, I piled it up and he ate it all up and he said he never tasted mash potato that delicious because very people few will put, you know, melted cheese in a potato and mix it up. So, the next day, somebody come knocking at the door and he had a sour face and very uncommunicative and he didn't look very happy and he said, "I'm the cook from certain outfit." So, "Oh, you're the cook from that captain's outfit?" He said, "Yeah. I was sent here to learn how to make that mash potato with cheese." So, I was telling him how to---he wasn't even listening. He wasn't listening. I told him how to do it and he said thanks and he left. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 26 �So, [giggles] that's my experience in Captain Hill telling me that I had made the best French toast at one time and the best steak and potato, mash potato, the second time. So, he was very appreciative of my cooking, so. INTERVIEWER: Were the rest of the boys very appreciative . . . [interruption in tape]. [Interview resumes.] OBA: What? We're stopping? CREW MEMBER: (Inaudible.) OBA: Now, rest of the boys, they were appreciative but whenever they got dysentery, they always blamed the cook. Because they never washed their mess kit correctly, you know. But you can't cook a delicate food for 180 boys, you know, [00:22:00] you just have to make it at special occasion. So after the war, we were guarding prisoners at Ghedi Airfield, thousands of German prisoners. So we had our kitchen tent set up and Mas Yoshida, a mainland boy, was expert in cooking, rice in a tarai. You know what's a big tarai, aluminum pan, and if you don't know how only the middle gets cooked or the side gets cooked. So Mas was very good in turning the pan around so that the rice would be evenly cooked. So at that time in---after the war we were able to barter dried coffee, salted bacon, even potatoes for rice, tomatoes, onions, fresh eggs and whatnot. And whenever we have meat come through our kitchen we have an agreement with the boys, nobody gonna have this as---a fairly large steak. Rather than steak, we will stretch it out for three days and we will have chicken, I mean, beef hekka everyday. So we melted---we dissolved some bullion cube in a bottle. And there was our shoyu. And if you want to try dissolving bullion cubes in a bottle and use it as shoyu, you'll swear that it's better than shoyu because, you know, bullion is made from the marrow of cows, you know, cattle. Anyway we use that as our shoyu and we would make beef hekka. And Captain Certain at that time was our captain, he would come at noon time every day. He would sit on the table with a plate in front of him and he would wait for the first scoop of hot rice. And Yoshida would give the [00:24:00] first two scoops of hot rice in the middle of his plate, and we would crack two raw eggs on top there, put bullion soup, uh, shoyu on top and he would mix that and make into tamago meshi and then he would get two big scoops of beef hekka. And I swear he would come every day to eat that beef hekka. I said, "don't you get ever tired of it?" "No I would never get tired of this". BEGINNING OF TAPE FOUR INTERVIEWER: I understand some of the officers liked the Japanese food. Can you talk about that a little bit? OBA: Yes, as I said, Captain Certain always came at noon time to eat his tamago meshi and beef hekka. As a result, one of the 90-day wonders, Lieutenant Valenti who just came and joined us, started to come with Captain Certain to sit down and have his rice, raw egg and beef hekka. And after the second day, our mess sergeant, Joe Yamamoto, said, "Lieutenant Valenti, you folks all get meal allowances at the officer's mess you go over there and pay for your food, don't eat our soldier's ration. So after that This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 26 �ration---so after that, Lieutenant Valenti never came except Captain Certain, and he just loved it. And Itaru "Cowshine" [Kawashima] who just died, he lived in Thousand Oaks, had now had a chance to recount all the stories of what the boys did and wrote one citation after another, and he had to have Captain Certain's signature to go to the higher ups for recognition for Silver Star and DSC's. So every time Cowshine would write a citation, Captain Certain, who just came, he never saw the war but he just came after the war, he said, "You mean they did that?" And Cowshine said, "Of course." And another citation would be really---said, "You mean the boys did all that?" And he said, "Yes, of course." So even Captain Certain, captain of our outfit, couldn't believe his ears when he read all these things that the boys attacking machine gun nest, jumping into the machine gun nest, stabbing the German soldiers, and all of this heroic things. And today the boys don't [00:02:00] relish the fact that they killed the German soldiers, like, Kiyoshi Takeuchi says, "I never shot at the enemy. I shot only when kill or get killed. And when the enemy was close that's the only time I shot. Otherwise, I would shoot over their heads," he said. So on Hill 140 where approximately 18,000 rounds were thrown at our boys, as I said, the Germans were so methodical, they would come from the right bang, bang, bang, bang to the left or the front bang, bang, bang to the back and reverse from the back to the front or left to the right, so you knew more or less how the pattern was. And after one of their barrages, there was a head count. And when Clarence Oka didn't answer his call, Roy Kubo got up and went to Clarence Oka's hole and found that Clarence was half buried in the dirt. So he started to dig Clarence out and in the meantime another barrage came and he got hit on his okole. And so he yanked Clarence out of the foxhole and jumped back into his foxhole. Then during another barrage, during the same day another barrage came, and Tamishiro called for "Medics, medics!" So Danny Hokama saw one of the lieutenants go up to Tamishiro and before he could do anything the barrage came, so the lieutenant jumped back into his foxhole. And then he says, "Hey, you leave the guy half buried he's gonna die." So Danny jumped up and ran and started to dig Tamishiro out of from his foxhole and the barrage hit his leg and he got hit on his leg. And as a result, because he had all these witnesses watching him, Danny Hokama got the Silver Star for his efforts. Roy Kubo, he didn't have any witness, so all he got was shrapnel on his [00:04:00] okole, for his efforts. And as the boys told me later that a real tall lanky lieutenant, haole lieutenant, got hit too, and so the sergeant told the boys, "Carry him down the hill, down to the aid station." So four of the boys one leg, I mean, one and leg each and (inaudible) they were carrying him then the barrage came, so the boys would drop him and hide, and the lieutenant would roll down a few feet and then they would get up and carry him down the hill again and the barrage came and they would drop him and the lieutenant would roll. And one of the boys said, "You know, if this lasted, I think the lieutenant would have to rolled all the way down to the aid station by himself. And another incident of some heroics is---this is kind of a spiritual thing, after all the battle in Italy, Sergeant Jimmy Shimizu told one of the cooks, "Hold my wallet for me. If I don't come back, send it to my sister." So Sam Sugawara said, "Hey, Sergeant Jimmy. Look, you went through Italy and why are you now that you are asking me to hold your wallet?" So Sergeant Shimizu said, "Oh, never mind. Just hold my wallet. If I don't come back, send it to my sister." So Sam Sugawara reluctantly held on to his wallet. And Sergeant Shimizu, on the first day of battle in the Vosges Mountain right after Bruyeres, was walking down the hill and he came to Danny Hokama. And Danny Hokama says, "Hi, sergeant," he says, "be careful, I think I saw somebody---a movement by that busted German tank." So Sergeant Shimizu said, "Well, let me look." He raised his binoculars and the shell---bullet came by and hit Sergeant Shimizu. And [00:06:00] Sergeant Shimizu collapsed and then he says, sergeant looked at Danny and says, "Goodbye, Hokama," and Sergeant Shimizu died. Then one month later, Sam Sugawara gets a letter from Shimizu's sister and the sister writes that on a certain day on a certain hour she was lighting the candle at the butsudan and the candle flickered and went out. So she lit it again and the candle flickered and went out. So she looked around her room to see and there were no window, and she didn't feel any draft, so she thought that was strange. So she lit it the third time and when the candle went out she noted the day and the time and This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 26 �she said she knew her brother Jimmy had died. And in the letter to Sergeant Sam Sugawara it was the exact day and time that Sergeant Shimizu had died. And this is strange but, you know, when you talk about human being whether the spirit can travel from across the continent of Europe and Atlantic Ocean and through United States, it happens. And just like Sergeant Howard Urabe, he was killed on Hill 140 on July 4th. So Helen Iwamoto, who is the sister of Sergeant Urabe, said, "You know, Fourth of July is a holiday so our whole family went to Nanakuli Beach and we were having a picnic, and then all of a sudden," she said, "my mother says, 'Hey, girls, come, come. I hear Howard whistling." And Howard had a peculiar way of whistling, so the girls went by the mother and they said, "Yeah that's Howard, that's Howard!" And it was Fourth of July and Howard [00:08:00] was whistling some place near them and that's the day he died. So I tell these stories to high school kids, at university when they ask me to give stories about 100th Battalion. And I feel important to tell them that there's more than just the mind, the body, in a human being. And a lot of people don't believe about spirits and stuff but I just leave it to them to digest what I tell them because these things had really happened. And then, of course, right after we took Bruyeres, F Company was near Biffontaine. And then one day, Private Osumi got hit and he was lying in the open. So the boys were trying to get Osumi to a safer place but every time they stick their head out the Germans on the hill would rake the area with the machine gun, so they couldn't go. So Sergeant Abe Ohama came by and he said, "What's going on?" The boys said, "Osumi is hit out there but we can't get near him." Sergeant---so Abe Ohama says, "Oh, that's nonsense. Just wave some white flag and tell them that we gonna pick up the wounded. So they tie a handkerchief on the rifle and they waved the flag and then Abe Ohama went up to pick up Osumi. No sooner he got to Osumi, the German machine gun blasted him and he was mortally wounded and lying on the ground. So then four boys felt that they better save their sergeant, so four boys went up and made a hastily litter out of their raincoat. And as they tried to lift him up and take him down the machine gun raked them again. [00:10:00] And Tommy Tamagawa said, as he was lifting, like this, one of the bullets went through his back and came out through his arm. So when he went to the aid station, Sergeant Oshiro said, "You shot yourself, yeah?" He said, "Otherwise, how would the bullet hit you from here?" So Tommy Tamagawa said, "No, I was lifting and the bullet went behind me and it came through here." Sergeant Oshiro said, "Nah, nah, you shot yourself." [Laughs.] So Tommy says he didn't shoot himself, actually. And then the boys were so incensed so angry that here they're trying to wave more like the International Red Cross flag, by white flag, and the Germans had shot them. So Sergeant Hamaguchi said, "Everybody fix bayonets, we're gonna charge." And he told the heavy weapon guys to give them ground cover, so the machine guns all opened fire. And when you do that, any enemy would stay in their foxhole. See, as they stayed in their foxhole, this platoon charged up the hill and made a banzai charge and they killed 87 soldiers, German soldiers, in their foxhole. And that night, Chaplain Higuchi said he had to pass through that area again, and he said it was real, real spooky because, as he passed through that area, he could hear the soldiers moaning and groaning. And he said they were all dead, but as the night air came cold, the hot air in their stomach and intestines came up. And as it came out through their body, see, they were moaning and groaning and Chaplain Yama[da], uh, Higuchi said, "Hoo, was so scary, all of these soldiers moaning and groaning," and he had to pass through there." And the head count was that they had killed 87 of them and the rest of the company had [00:12:00] retreated before they were killed. So that's the banzai hill that F Company had in trying to avenge that death of Abe Ohama. So those are some of the battles that I can recount through the stories of the men of Company F. INTERVIEWER: As a cook, you knew all of the soldiers in Company F because you saw them everyday when you served them food? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 26 �OBA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: So, how was it to see that---see some of them not returning or killed in action, and even though you didn't see it, you hear these stories afterward, how did that make you feel? OBA: Well, actually, during the war, there's so much action and you're scared all the time; nobody can tell us that they were not scared. So I would say we were scared brave because no matter how scared you were, you always did what you was told of you, if they told you to advance, you advance, although you were scared like hell. And as I saw these boys come through the mess line, I knew them personally, and especially in the Vosges Mountain where most of our boys got killed, I could see their faces and because we were in the back, very often they would ask us to become litter bearers for the graves registration people. So I remember one day we had to go and pick up Makoto Hayama who was in my first squad with me, I knew he was sleeping few bunks away from me. Miyazono and all, Toyama, and all these people whom I knew personally getting killed. So, like, Roy Kubo said, "Don't get close to me. I don't [00:14:00] wanna get close to you." I said, "What do you mean? He said, "I don't want to see you die tomorrow, don't get close to me, I don't want to be friends with anybody." So Roy Kubo always had the attitude of don't get too close to me, don't be too friendly with me, because we used to see all these boys die from Camp Shelby days. These are the boys that we knew intimately and we were friends, we went passes with, and before you know it, next day says, "Oh, this guy got killed, that guy got killed." And one day I was asked to carry Sergeant Nobuo Kokame, and we went to pick him up, and we made our litter and was carrying him out, and from a nice-looking face he started to get pale and pale, so I told the boys, "Hey, we've gotta get him out, let's run." So we ran for half an hour right through the fire, we ran, ran, ran and came down to the roadside and there were jeeps there and we put him on the jeep and it took off and we didn't know what happened to him after that. But much later they found that he was buried in one of the cemeteries probably in Epinal American Cemetery. But I remember carrying him out, and we did our best to try and save him but it was too much. In those days, especially in the Vosges Mountain, you have to hand carry. But, as you know, in the Korean and Vietnam War, the helicopter comes right over there as soon as you're hit, they pick you up and take you to the aid station within half an hour. So many of the casualties were saved in the later wars, but in the European war, we didn't have all this so-called helicopter aid ambulances. So many of the boys got killed from---died from lack of attention [00:16:00]. INTERVIEWER: That must have been very tragic to see them dying, knowing that if they could just get helped sooner, they could have made it? OBA: Right. INTERVIEWER: Was there any other instances where they did make it after you brought them down for the hill or most of them, once they were shot, were they wounded so badly that it was almost impossible to get to the aid station? OBA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 26 �Well, there were medics, plain people like me who was assigned to become medics and they had first aid training, but they were not doctors and, but they only had only one or two doctors, you know, and to get a medical attention---and some of these doctors were not surgeons, you know, they were just doctors. They volunteered for the 442nd or were assigned. So they were the captain of a aid station and they had to so-called take care of the boys, and in those days, for some reason, although they must have practiced triage, you know what triage is? They really didn't because whoever looked seriously injured were taken care of, and when this guy said, "Take care of the other guy first, take care of the other guy," they should have known that this guy without the leg would've died sooner. But because they listen to him [and] took care of the lesser wounded ones, this guy with his leg shot off, died. And that was not the only case. I've heard many other cases where the boys would say, "Take care of the other guy." And so in those days they didn't really practice triage except by instinct. INTERVIEWER: After all of the battles were done, you said that [00:18:00] you had gone down to process prisoners. Was that before the end of the war or . . .? OBA: Well, processing prisoners was after the war. But about one week before the war ended, our boys was sent in Cuneo which is the French Italian border. And that's when after we had taken Gothic Line and advanced all the way up the Italian peninsula. And the boys had advanced so fast that General Mark Clark was telling them to slow down before you get surrounded by Germans. But as a result of supposedly a diversional action by the 442nd, it became a major push. The 4-4-2 Regiment was supposed to cause a diversional action here so the rest of the Allied Forces along the Arno River could cross over and make a major attack on the enemy. But the 442nd made a major move and was so far in front that at one point we were on the border of Italy and France in a little town called Cuneo. And I was assigned to take some rations out to the boys so we took some rations out and on our way back, it was getting dusk and hard to see the road, and the farm roads were just like (inaudible), you know, slightly lighted and narrow, only one car could go by, and so this jeep driver was trying to get back to camp before nightfall so he doesn't have to use his headlight. So he was going about 50 miles an hour and all of a sudden without breaking there was a 90-degree turn, he didn't even try to break. [00:20:00] We hit that ditch and we flew up. And on that jeep we had a .50-caliber gun turret stand, see. You know that jeep, the back seat, the two drivers, and in the middle this metal post where you attach the .50-caliber gun. And because of that, we were all saved that turret dug about one foot into the ground as we---as the jeep dumped us on the ground. And I was unconscious for at least 15 minutes or so, and when I opened my eyes I saw stars. I said, "By gosh, this is true. You see thousands of stars," you know, blink, blink, blink nothing but stars. So I fin[ally]---the stars finally went away, I got myself together and I look at the two boys there lying flat over there. So I saw a log, I sat on the log, I said, "By gosh, those two guys are dead now. How do I get back to my outfit?" So I sat down with my hand in the head and then the villagers came. All the farmers came and they didn't give us a hand, they just made a circle around the jeep and us, and they were just staring looking at us. So before I knew it, Yoshio Kawamura starts staring and he came and sat next to me. He and I said Tarumoto the driver must be dead. So we sat there another 10, 15 minutes then Tarumoto started moving, and he comes and sits down on this log. And I don't know what the German people, I mean, Italian farmers thought. Must have thought that these Japanese are very invincible they're---they can fly over in a jeep about 50 miles an hour and they're sitting on a log. And finally Tarumoto says he went to the jeep and said the tires are flat and the rim is broken so we have to change it. So without thinking we go and change---to get the spare and change the tire, we don't even know if the jeep will start [00:22:00] because the jeep went this way and the entire front windshield was smashed and then the hood was smashed. So after we changed the tire, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 26 �Tarumoto---the key was still in there and start the engine. The engine starts, so Kawamura said, "Wait, I lost my wallet, I cant find it." I said, "Ah, forget it," you know, "you cannot find it in the dark anymore." So he sits in the back seat and here was his wallet, you know. Anyway, so we start the engine and the jeep goes, guh-jun, guh-jun, guh-jun, guh-jun, so we got on the road and guh-jun, guh-jun, guh-jun, guhjun, we came back to the company and they send me to aid station. And all they did was put some io[dine], Mercuro[chrome], it was iodine, which one that hurts, iodine? Mercurochrome? Sting like hell. They put it on my back and my head. They never send me to field station or get x-ray of my head or spine. So by the time I came back and got discharged there's no record that I was in a jeep accident. So they refused to recognize that I was so-called wounded in the Army, whether I had a perforated eardrum on Hill 140. So I am supposed to be a very healthy returning veteran. INTERVIEWER: Where were you when the war ended? OBA: When the war ended we were in Cuneo after that accident. And about a few days later, in fact, that was only three days before the war ended that we had the accident, and the war ended. And before that, about a week before, one or two weeks before, President Roosevelt died. So we were very sad that our president had died, and then the war ended. And then we were sent all the way to Milan, Lake Como, Brescia. We had a [00:24:00] tremendous vacation visiting all these Italian city like we were millionaires or something. INTERVIEWER: Why don't we stop. BEGINNING OF TAPE FIVE INTERVIEWER: As a cook you got to know a lot of the soldiers that came through. What was it like when they got killed although you weren't next to them, how did you feel when you received the news of them not returning? OBA: You know, as a cook, I used to see every one of them come through the line, chow line, and as a result, you got to know the entire company. If you were in 1st Platoon you knew the boys around 1st Platoon, and you knew the other boys on a kind of peripheral way as they belonging to the company. And if you were on the 4th Platoon, same way: you knew your boys real well and you didn't know the others too well. But as a cook you saw them three times a day, coming through the line; you knew that this guy didn't eat spinach, this guy didn't eat cheese, especially the Hawaii boys, they won't eat cheese, and liverwurst is something that the Hawaii boys would never even touch. And then on Sundays when we have cold cut and sandwich, all the mainland boys would come and eat, and the Hawaii boys would take off to the PX or the Hattiesburg and they would rather eat hamburgers or milkshake or things like that. So I got to know them pretty well, their eating habits and so forth. And the first day of battle, F Company was supposed to be a reserve, E and G were supposed to be in front. And, like the Army, there['s] always snafu: instead of at the---getting the line of departure at 5:30 in the morning as they had planned, they delayed it to 6:30. And Colonel Hanley's excuse was "We couldn't get hold of F Company." Personally, I think they could have sent a runner to F Company and says, "Hey, [00:02:00] delay the attack for one hour." But Captain Akins didn't get the word so, as they took off at 5:30, he This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 26 �couldn't get sight of the E and G Company who were supposed to be in front. So Captain Akins thought he was behind so he made the march faster and faster and faster until the boys were throwing away their shovels under their backpack, raincoats and stuff and, you know, they were carrying only their rifle and their bandolier of ammunition. They were so exhausted by the time they were trying to catch up to E and G Company. So all of a sudden they come over this hill and the Germans are sitting right there, so it's almost like a ambush. And so they were in their first day of battle and Lieutenant Oyasato who was sergeant at that time says, "Captain Akins, I think I hear the kraut voices on the radio." And Captain Akins said, "No, no that cannot be," and then he comes---we come across the Germans and he said, "I think they're Germans!" And Captain Akins says, "No, no, they're Italian paisanos." Before you know it they're shooting at each other and Robert Katayama who's one of our youngest guys in F Company, he joined---he's barely 17 years old, and as a bullet went passed his ear, he said, "Hey, they're trying to kill me!" he says, you know. And then the first day, Kiyoshi Muranaga who was trying to fire a mortar shell at the German tank, fired one and the shot landed behind the tank. And Wataru Kohashi said, "Fire two!" the second shot landed in front of the tank, and he said, "Fire three!" and nothing happened. So Wataru said, "Did you pull the [00:04:00] pin?" So Muranaga said, "I think so." He got up on the road and he was looking for the pin and a German Panzer tank shot a bullet---shell right on the road and Muranaga got hit on his throat, and he died over there. But the one that really upset---hurt---not upset, but hit me hard was Sergeant Dick Masuda, he was my platoon sergeant during my basic training, he had so much faith in me and I had so much respect for him, and on the very first day he got killed. And he was a real samurai. They found his body next to three German soldiers, and what we surmised was, instead of being captured by these Germans, and he wasn't about to be captured, we think that he pulled a grenade and killed himself and the three German soldiers because he was lying with three German soldiers on the ground. And Hiraoka got hit right through the head, and two other boys got killed, eight were missing in action, and about 12 were wounded. So the first day of action was a really traumatic moment for us because, you know, very innocently, very naively, you carry your rifles and go up to the front line not knowing that the first bullet you shoot gonna kill somebody. And this is the reason why I think the veterans would not talk about the war for many, many years. They don't want to recount stories about Muranaga got shot through his---in his neck, the blood was gurgling up, and Wataru Kohashi was cradling him and he dies in his arm, and there's many stories about, like, Shaw Kojaku [00:06:00] got hit on Hill 140 and Tommy Tamagawa heard him moaning so he went over to Shaw, and Shaw was matted in blood. And Tommy says, "Hey, where are you hit?" he tried to find, and Shah said, "Oh, never mind." He said, "Tommy, I know I'm gonna die, but I'm not gonna cry because I'am a brave American soldier," and he died. And things like this really hit's you hard and I don't know if you can get immune to this but---and everyday I hear my friend, a guy who came through that chow line everyday, the guy who didn't like spinach, the guy who refused to touch liverwurst, he says, "Oh, this guy got killed, that guy got killed," and in the end, I don't know, you harden yourself to a point where you only hear this causality list and stop worrying about---you always think that guy might not have died, you know, Funny, yeah? They tell you he got killed and you always think, "Maybe they took him to the hospital he might survive," but it never happened: they get killed, they get killed. And I've carried the soldiers, especially Gothic Line. And I don't know how they climbed that hill, they climbed that hill, five soldiers fell off that cliffs, you know, in attacking the Germans. And we had to go up there and carry them, and we were sliding on our okole passing the litter from one group to the other; we couldn't really traverse it except to pass the wounded hand-to-hand. And that's the way I remember. Or the thing that---one time that really, really got me emotionally was, we were in the Vosges Mountain in Bruyeres and they told me to go pick up some bodies [00:08:00] and snow, this is October, it was very cold, snow start falling a few days later but we went to---we got this mattress bags and that was our, what you call it, bag for the wounded, uh, dead. So we put the bodies in the mattress bags and it's hard to describe: the bodies are stiff, you had to bend their elbows, you had to bend their knees and their This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 20 of 26 �legs to squeeze 'em in the mattress bag. And we just---I did it, and then the thing that got me was, when we took it to the jeep trailer we put it, and we had to drop the bodies, you know, katunk! And Hiro said, "Gee, boy, this sounded like a cord of lumber or wood that you are gathering to take home to your fireplace." You pick up another body, you drop 'em in there it goes klunk! you know, solid like a bunch of lumber or logs. And when I did that I said, "Wow, these are my friends, they're dead, and you're dropping them in the trailer, jeep trailer, and it was like that. And throughout the war, in the end, you just heard their names and you took it for granted that they came to fight, they died, and you're happy that at least you were in the kitchen in the rear and never got killed because cooks don't get killed. And then after the war, when we came back, I decided to make use of my GI Bill, and instead of going to the West Coast, I decided to go as far inland as possible. So I finally ended up in Washington [University] USA Missouri and got my [00:10:00] Bachelor of Science in physical therapy. And we all came back, instead of future farmers of the sugar plantations, I think the majority of us came back as professionals. And a lot of people came back as lawyers, doctors, engineers, architects and I came back as a physical therapist, worked for the government, and I went back for my masters at age 45. We had three children but my wife supported me. I had to get more income to support my children so I went for my masters and got my masters in hospital administration and I started to make much better money as a Senior Vice President, Chief Operating Officer of Kuakini Medical Center. And my last three years I went to Hilo Hospital as the administrator and I retired there. And if you had read history of Hawaii, Governor Burns, Dan Inouye, Matsy Takabuki, and Tadao Beppu, and much later, Governor Ariyoshi took over control of the democratic party and, since 1954, if you read Arnold (inaudible) "The Democratic Revolution in Hawaii," the democrats have control and rule the Hawaiian Islands since 1954 till today. Ben Cayetano who is a Filipino American, is our present governor, we've had Hawaiian governor, we've had Japanese governor, Ariyoshi, and now we have a Filipino American. So I think that's the legacy of our veterans who contributed to the socialization and economic [00:12:00] well-being of Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: Do you feel because of that that it's important that the story of the veterans are recorded and passed on to future generations? OBA: I feel so. See, when I---when we came back, I was very late in joining the veterans club. When I first came back, when they asked me to join, I said, "My gosh, who are these crazy guys joining the Veterans of Foreign Wars," and all this kind of stuff, you know, post something, post that. I said, "I don't wanna relive the history of what we did and reminisce about all the, especially the war dead. So I didn't join until mid 70s, and so I called myself a late bloomer. And as a late bloomer, you joined the outfit and the first thing you know they make you president of the 442nd. So I was president during the 50th anniversary we had one of the best reunions, we had a parade through Waikiki, and, even then, we had a very difficult time getting boys to talk about the war. And when they finally started to talk, like Tadao Beppu says, "I can never forget this or I can never forget the time we did this." So they finally started to open up. And then I use to write for the F Company Bulletin as a reporter for the 442nd Bulletin, and the boys liked the way I wrote so they told me write about F Company before everybody forgets, before everybody goes. So we decided to write the story of "Men of Company F" 442nd Regimental Combat Team. And this was a little manual and they liked it so much, they said, "Ronald, why don't you write a hardcover book?" Go interview the mainland guys, not only the Hawaii guys. [00:14:00] So one reunion, I spent three days in a hotel bedroom like this, interviewing close to---altogether 70 of the veterans, and I finally published "The Men of Company F" and Arnold (inaudible) was my consultant, and when he told me to donate to the Los Angeles Japanese American Library, the Rafu Shimpo, he gave me a whole list. I said, "Arnold, cannot be giving all these books for free to all these people," you know. He said, "Ronald, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 21 of 26 �the only reason you write books is not for yourself, you write it for posterity so that people of other generations would read and know about it. The present generation know what happened so you got to donate it to all the libraries." So we donated 59 books to all the public libraries and 13 books to the community colleges and lot of free books. So we didn't make money writing the book "Men of Company F" but like Arnold said, "You gotta record indelibly in black and white with pictures so that generations after us can know what we did." And like (inaudible) Chan says, "Even ten years ago the boys wouldn't open up," she couldn't write a book, and finally they're beginning to open up and telling stories, so . . . INTERVIEWER: What would you say to the veterans to encourage them to tell their story? You got them to talk to you, what would you say to them or what did you say to them? OBA: Okay. I said, "Okay, I'll write a book. Now you folks all, everyone write me anecdotes and send 'em to me and I'll put it together and write a book." So I waited a month, two months, three months nothing happened. So I said, "Hey, let's give up, [00:16:00] nobody gonna." He said, "No, no, you gotta write a book." I said, "Okay." So after another attempt nothing happened, so the third time they told me to write, I said, "Okay," and they all voted, you know. the whole chapter. I said, "On one condition. If I tell you tomorrow meet me at McDonald's at 9 o'clock, I want you to be there. I'll treat you breakfast, we'll sit down for an hour and I'll grill you and ask you questions. So for the next three, four, five months, one after another, I'll call them and say, "Meet me at McDonalds or Wendy's or wherever," and I interviewed all the boys. They wouldn't write though. They wouldn't submit anything but if you ask them questions, and another veteran asking, they were willing, so I was able to get all the stories. And with this experience, Iolani High School asked me to write the story of Father Kenneth A. Bray, a famous football coach. And so I contributed and I co-authored the book "The Ol' Man, Father Kenneth A. Bray," the famous football coach for Iolani High School. INTERVIEWER: What do you think are the most important questions to ask to get the true stories, when you talk to a veteran or when you are trying to write a book? OBA: Yeah. I would tell them, "Look, you don't have to tell me things for the sake of your children they would read about it later, so don't worry about now. But tell me as it is, as it happened. You don't have to embellish it, you don't have to be philosophical, just tell me your stories, any kind of story, exactly how it happened. And if you didn't like this certain guy say so," [00:18:00] you know. Like, say the Hawaiians and kotonks had lot of fights and they got together later on. And I would tell them to tell me stories for posterity, it don't have to be for now, it doesn't have to be for your children they'll read it later on, and they open up. INTERVIEWER: Have you spoken to your own children or grandchildren about your experience? OBA: Unfortunately not, they don't have time to listen to grandpa or their own father. So I gave 'em a book, I said my daughter Charlene, "Charlene did you read the book?" She said, "Oh, we're so busy, I read the introduction, that's it." This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 22 of 26 �INTERVIEWER: Do you hope that they'll read it someday? OBA: I think they will. And some of the tapes like "Looking Like The Enemy," they play it because it's easier to just play it on the VCR, and they all have a copy of the book plus other videotapes, and I'm sure they will read it when the children grow up. Just like me, when my children were small, I didn't join any clubs except I was the supervisor of the Kailua Hongwanji temple for 13 years and I used to give the sermons. INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else you wanted to talk about either after the war or perhaps how your wartime experience influenced some of the events after the war or your philosophy on living your life after the war? OBA: I really don't have thoughts about that because, after the war, for 40 or so years, people heard about the 442nd, and except for the immediate family nobody cared. Nobody praised the 442nd or [00:20:00] told us that you guys were great soldiers. Only now when tapes and books and people our age are beginning to take interest in us are now saying, "Hey, you guys, you're 4-4-2, hey." And when we showed that exhibit at Washington Place, the governor's place, you know, we're showing the Bruyeres, pink house, and whatnot, two colonels, one was the haole colonel from Tripler Army Hospital, he came and he says, "Ronald, will you come to the hospital and tell us this stories?" I said, "Yeah, we have speaker's guild and I have a slide presentation." And I said, "Doctors? You know, I don't know how to talk to doctors." He says, "No," he said, "You know, I've seen exhibits and heard about you guys, but until I saw Saving Private Ryan, I never knew what you guys went through and I want my staff, OB/GYN staff, to hear from you, not about the war injuries, but about the 442nd, the formation, why you exist and how you're, you know, carrying on the legacy." So I went, I gave 'em a talk, oh, they gave me a standing ovation. And half the time is, "Is that true? Is that true?" They don't know about relocation and they heard, though, they read about it. But when you give 'em a little detail, they say, "Wow, is that true? Did that really happen?" So I felt good in going to university, I've been going to a university of the last eight years giving the story. We've gone to Iolani, Punahou, Hawaii Baptist, Kamehameha Schools. I---we even go to elementary schools and talk to the children about the war. INTERVIEWER: What do you tell these children? OBA: Just like I telling you now, except simple words, very simple [00:22:00] words. I say, "You folks remember Pearl Harbor, you know it's down there?" and they say, "Yeah, yeah we know." I said, "You know, if you walk today it's over a mile, and I ran down." [They say,] "Oh!" They open their eyes and, that thing is great. INTERVIEWER: What do you see as an important thing that the sons and daughters, the Sanseis and the Yonseis, should do to propagate the legacy of the 442nd and the Nisei soldiers? OBA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 23 of 26 �First of all I think the sons and daughters better get their act together. There have too many splinter groups, they have too many arguments, they can't seem to get together in doing anything. Every time you hear about them doing something, after the event, some people quit. You know, it shatters me that these children of veterans are in their late 40's and 50's, and when you that age, you know more than anybody else, see, so you don't listen to each other. And before you know it, they split, the first president after three months he quit. And now you get another president and so forth. And if they can only put their act together and work in harmony, they can develop a tremendous archive and tremendous legacy. They talk about this, they talk a good story, but it's not happening. And that's what saddens me that, see, you know, we were young we had to raise our children and yet we got together and worked together but, see, we have a different kind of vested interest: we fought with each other, we saw each other die. The sons and daughters come from different units and they don't have a common bond, they didn't fight with each other. All they know is your father was in E Company, my father is G Company, [00:24:00] or my father is in artillery. So where is the common thing that holds them together except they say, "I'm a sons and daughter of the 442nd." So I hope someday when they mature a little bit more, they'll have a better organization and work better and learn to cooperate. They think they are, you know, but, I don't know, if they hear me saying this, they're gonna get mad at me. [Laughter.] INTERVIEWER: Are you saying you believe that all efforts should be a collaborative effort so that we can propagate the legacy? OBA: Yeah. You know the convention we had in Honolulu, all four AJA unit's supposed to have got together? There was so much differences in opinion, not real openly sanctioned, but the chairman told me, "Never again!" I said, "Why? You mean, I know I criticize you for doing certain things." He said, "No, not you. It's the other outfit. They think we're doing the wrong thing. Everyday they call me and tell me that I'm not doing right." So he said, "Never again! We should never have a common reunion. Four-four-two should have their own separate reunion." That's the feeling today. But, you see, the thing is there have to be a common bond, which they don't have. It's a very fleeting kind of common bond in saying that "I am a son of a veteran." INTERVIEWER: Perhaps, then, the message would be that the Japanese of value perhaps of oyakoko or filial piety needs to stand above divisiveness or other . . . OBA: [00:26:00] The sad part is they didn't to have shushin, they didn't go to Japanese school, they didn't hear our Buddhist minister give you sermons about, you know, father and mother and gaman, and Yamato Damashi kind of spirit and stuff. They don't have that. Our kids are all Americanized and their values are different and the upbringing is also different, you know, not like my Issei parents raising me, I know I didn't train---raise my children the same way my father did. INTERVIEWER: Perhaps that's why we can never do what you did because we don't have the same values and we could not do the same heroics. Is that what it is? OBA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 24 of 26 �Well, I think to sort of recapture my criticism, I think when the last of the veterans go and they become the true carriers of our legacy and they feel the true burden, they might get together better. Right now, they see your father's still running the outfit, they see your father's still program chairman. So they're on the fringes without too much authority or too much say. And I think when the last of the veterans go, the sons and daughters will become a powerful organization, and that's what I think gonna happen. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. OBA: Well, I hope I didn't talk too much. CREW MEMBER: Oh, no. [Interruption in interview.] [Interview resumes.] INTERVIEWER: I have one last question. You lived to tell about it you survived the war, what did you carry with you, [00:28:00] if anything, as a good luck charm? OBA: Okay, first of all, I think we are very fortunate surviving the war, although I bemoan the fact that I lost lot of my good friends and so forth. And putting that aside, I think the veterans had a millionaire's sojourn in Europe, visiting Paris, Switzerland, Rome, etc. And I said that only because we survived and not to belittle the real hero's who died, but---so we're fortunate that we came back home. And some of the boys took with them the thousand-stitch vest to keep them alive, and the parents and sisters and brothers all went and got stitches. But my parents were a little different, they didn't think in that fashion. So when I went to Europe, of course you always wonder whether you're gonna survive or is that next bullet has your name on it or not. So I found a rabbit's foot some place and there are three things on my name tag: I had my GI tag, I had a can opener, and the rabbit's foot, and I carried them throughout the war until I came home. And today I really don't know what happened, it was such a beat up rabbit's foot, I think I threw it away. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Thank you very much. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 25 of 26 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ronald Oba oral history interview, October 20, 1998 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ronald Oba oral history interview transcript [full interview], October 20, 1998 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Oba, Ronald: narrator Hashisaka, Ann: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 26 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1998-10-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1998OH0017_T_Oba