1 100 33 https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/474a184048d5c5704b00bfa430830077.pdf 0f3a6f269a818c08c0b603212af03a46 PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Fusae Yoshida, July 5, 2008, Denver, Colorado 892-Yoshida-Fusae-1 INTERVIEWER: [00:00] Today is July 5, 2008. We’re in Denver, Colorado, and today we’re going to be interviewing Fusae Yoshida. On interview is Robert Horsting, camera is Lisa Sueki, audio is Vance Yoshida, catalogue is Randy Grohl. On behalf of the Go for Broke National Education Center and the Hanashi Oral History Program, I’d like to welcome you here today, and thank you so much for agreeing to participate in the oral history program. YOSHIDA: Well, thank you for having me. INTERVIEWER: Would you please start off by stating your full name and your place and date of birth? YOSHIDA: Fusae Yoshida. August 26, 1927. Tacoma, Washington. INTERVIEWER: Would you tell us about the first person in your family who actually came to the United States, and if you know where they came from? YOSHIDA: My grandfather on my mother’s side, from Fukuoka, Japan, in 1900. INTERVIEWER: Where did he come from? I’m sorry, what did he do prior to coming here? YOSHIDA: They were vast landholders in a village called Shingu-machi near Hakata, by the seaside. There must have been a land reform---I wish I had talked to him more about it---but they gave all their land to the farmers because they were not farmers, and he and his brother came to the United States, and I think they came in search of gold. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: You said that they were landowners but they weren’t farmers. What did they do? YOSHIDA: I guess they must have collected rent and all that from the farmers, I have no idea. [02:00] Because they’re descendants of samurai, because I know, upon my visit, that there is a record going as far as 600 years, recorded in this village. INTERVIEWER: Your grandfather’s name, what was that? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 61 �Jotaro Mori. M-O-R-I. INTERVIEWER: Have you gone back to visit the area, the region, that your--YOSHIDA: Yes. My husband and my daughter Rennie, we did actually go back there and met distant cousins, and we visited the old, old cemeteries, and it was quite an experience. And there was one kind of a Buddhist shrine, a family shrine, and was actually a little small house, and we went there and offered incense. INTERVIEWER: What was that like for you, to be, you know---few people seem to really know, of your generation, that much family background and have access to those type of records. How’d it feel for you to--YOSHIDA: Yes. I don’t know how to say it, but I did have someone read it, but I never really had it translated. But I had gotten photocopies or, what do you call it, copies of the recording, and the last person named up to my mother. And that’s how I could say--INTERVIEWER: What was the most surprising thing you found out about your family background there? YOSHIDA: I don’t know, that---I can’t---I don’t know what you mean. I mean--INTERVIEWER: Let me ask you---let me change it up a little bit. [04:00] What did you enjoy most in the way of what you learned about your family background? YOSHIDA: Just discovering where my mother was raised, because my mother was a Kibei Nisei, born in Napa, California, so seeing the land where my mother grew up, I’d say. And she used to talk about the beaches, and by golly, that village was right by the ocean. INTERVIEWER: Please give us your mother’s name, and you mentioned that she was born in Napa. Well, actually, let’s start there. What’s your mother’s full name? YOSHIDA: Kiku Mori Fujii. F-U-J-I-I. INTERVIEWER: How did the Fujii come in? YOSHIDA: Well, when my mother was---even though she was born in USA and had American citizenship, at that time, when she married an alien---my father came from Fukaoka, too, from the This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 61 �mountainous region---she lost her citizenship, and she only regained it again after that law was passed allowing Japanese aliens to apply for and get their citizenship, I forgot what year it was. But she had to go through the whole process again to regain her citizenship, and she could not get her citizenship with the rest of the Japanese, she had to go through a separate court, I guess superior court, to gain her citizenship, regain her citizenship. INTERVIEWER: So the Fujii name, is that her husband’s name? YOSHIDA: Yes, my father’s name. INTERVIEWER: And then the bid to recover her citizenship, this is postwar, post World War II? YOSHIDA: Yes. [06:00] INTERVIEWER: Okay. May I ask you---describe your mother for us, physically. What did she look like? YOSHIDA: They say I resemble her. My mother, you know, spent 10 years, from year 7---since she was 7 to about 17, in Japan, being raised by her grandparents, and she returned to Tacoma, Washington, where the Moris lived. My mother had a very hard life. First being put into a strange country and not being close to her parents. And I think there was no closeness between my mother and her mother, because of the fact that she spent her growing period in Japan. I always felt that way. My father struggled all through his life. We lived, really, on the poverty line, and so every chance she had, like on Saturdays, she would go work at a produce market, and I would watch the three siblings, from the age, I don’t know, of about 10. And then later on, when they did start a laundry, or bought a laundry business, when things started looking up a little bit, I still had to do the family grocery shopping every Saturday, do the family cooking, and help at the laundry. INTERVIEWER: I want to go back a little bit more with your mother. You mentioned that she was sent to live with grandparents and raised in Japan. What age did she go there? YOSHIDA: See, when her parents took a trip to Japan at the age 7, [08:00] I think the grandparents over there talked them into leaving her, and because in those days everyone sent their---not everyone, but many people sent their children to Japan for education, so they thought---I’m sure they thought that she would get a better education in Japan. INTERVIEWER: And how long did she stay there? YOSHIDA: Ten years. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: You mentioned that she had a hard life. As far as her time in Japan, how did she consider the time she spent there, the relationship with her grandparents, and the education she got? YOSHIDA: I have no idea. I never talked to her about it. Although when---her only trip back to Japan after the war, she did have a class reunion, I think. That much I know. INTERVIEWER: What did she tell you about that class reunion? What was that experience like? YOSHIDA: You know, I really never talked to her in depth, but---I can’t tell you any more. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How about your relationship with your grandparents on your mother’s side? What do you know of them? YOSHIDA: Oh, my grandfather came to see us almost every day. And he was already---on December 7th, you know, after he came back from fishing, the FBI took him, because he was a civic leader. He was involved in the establishment of the Japanese language school there in Tacoma, the Tacoma Buddhist Temple, and whenever the Japanese Navy came to visit, he was involved in the reception and things like that. He [10:00] was into everything, but he was never in the Japanese military. Okay, my grandfather was taken away by the FBI on December 7th, the night of December 7th, and he ended up in Missoula, Montana. And they had a hearing, I don’t know what got---I don’t know a thing about the hearing, but what I picked up today at the conference. And he was sent to Lordsburg, New Mexico, and I think later to Santa Fe. But he was released quite early, because one of the first camps we were in was Tule Lake, and I remember his return. We all went to the bus stop waiting for him, and when he came back, I was just shocked how he had aged in that short period of time. And to this day, I regret not talking to him more about his experience in Lordsburg and what they went through. And so I went---came to this conference trying to get more information about those camps, and I think I found some references. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned the difference in him, the way he looked physically aged. Prior to the war, what do you recall of his demeanor, his personality? What was he like? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. As a child growing up, he came over every---almost every evening at dinnertime. He would never eat with us, but he would sit and inform my parents all the town, shall I say, gossip, or what’s going on in the town of Tacoma. He knew everything that was going on. So all we did, as a child, was listen to him and learn what was going on in Tacoma. [12:00] INTERVIEWER: Give us an example of something he told you that kind of stuck out. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 61 �YOSHIDA: Gee, I don't know. He was the one that decided what every family was going to contribute to anything that was going around in town, like for the reception for the Japanese Navy coming around, he would say, “Well, this family, I want a dollar, next family, I want two dollars.” He was the one that was almost the town treasurer, and went from, I guess, family to family asking for donations for whatever cause. INTERVIEWER: Was he a jovial person or a reserved person? YOSHIDA: Not really a jovial person, but he was always busy, and it was always involving the affairs of the town or the Japanese community. INTERVIEWER: Okay. YOSHIDA: And I loved him dearly. I wrote to him at least once or twice a week when he was in Lordsburg, and I gave--- [Starts crying] Okay. INTERVIEWER: Do you need a moment? YOSHIDA: I’m all right. INTERVIEWER: Okay. What did he look like physically? Describe his physique. YOSHIDA: He had---he always had a mustache, and he had a old Chevy. And Tacoma is located on a hill, and he would somehow manage to get up on the hill in his old Chevy. Sometimes he would have to zigzag up the hill. In those days, you know, there weren’t very many cars, so it didn’t matter how you climbed that hill, but he always came in his old Chevy. And he fished every weekend. See, in the [14:00] Depression days, we subsisted on fish from the Puget Sound, and my father and my grandfather went fishing almost every Sunday. And they would get sacks of, you know, salmon and black cod and octopus and squids and just everything. To think that we were growing up on great food. INTERVIEWER: Share with us a moment that’s cherished for you in your relationship with your grandfather. YOSHIDA: I was involved in kabuki as a young child, because my grandfather always was involved in everything that was going on, so---they used to have these amateur groups in almost every town in Tacoma, and whenever they needed a child so-called actor in this kabuki play, I was chosen. And so my grandfather would pick me up and we’d go to rehearsal, and then he’d bring me back, until the performance. And one time, the kabuki directors lived in Seattle, and we went This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 61 �to Seattle for rehearsal, and so my grandfather would pick me up and take me to Seattle. I might be on stage maybe not even five minutes, but I was involved in the rehearsal. And when we were in Seattle---going to Seattle was only 30 miles, but in those days, that was a long ways off, and it was a treat, going to Seattle. So one time he took me up to on top of Smith Building. Smith Building was the tallest building in Seattle at that time, and he took me to the top of Smith Building, and we came down, and he took me out to lunch. [16:00] In those days, you never went out to lunch. The only time was---a treat was going to a Chinese dinner. And so he took me out to lunch and he said, “Order anything you want,” you know. I don’t even know what I ordered, but that was one of my first outing at an American restaurant. INTERVIEWER: How old were you? YOSHIDA: I have no idea. I must have been about 8 or 9. I have no---I can’t remember. INTERVIEWER: What’s your grandmother’s name? And how was your---well, actually, what’s your grandmother’s name, and describe her physically, and her demeanor as well? YOSHIDA: Okay. Grandma Mori’s name is Kinue, and they had a small cleaning shop. Now there’s---they sent the clothes out to cleaning, and they did the pressing, and Grandpa’s job was to press men’s suits, and half the time he was not there because he was so busy involved in civic work. But Grandma was---specialty was ironing beautiful clothes, evening clothes, and they were--Grandpa’s big account, I hate to say it, was the prostitution houses in Tacoma, and they had these gorgeous satin, you know, dresses these gals wore. And I just would see Grandma pressing these beautiful gowns all day long, and on the side, she would smoke her Bull Durham. And my mother hated it because she smoked. And to this day, I remember Grandma rolling up her Bull Durham and going like this, and smoking. That’s my memory of my grandmother. INTERVIEWER: What was her personality like? YOSHIDA: I don’t know, I can’t remember that much. I mean, she used to garden on weekends, [18:00] growing vegetables. And she wasn’t real, what do you call it, jovial or anything like that, but she was a hard worker. INTERVIEWER: I ask you again, share a moment that stands out for you in your memory, with something you did that you did with her, or just something that she did that really sticks out in your memory. YOSHIDA: Going over there every Christmas or Thanksgiving and her roasting a big turkey, shall I say. And she used to complain about us four kids making so much noise in her house. INTERVIEWER: How would she prepare it? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 61 �YOSHIDA: I mean, she would just roast the turkey in the oven. But that’s all I could remember. INTERVIEWER: Was it a typically American style? YOSHIDA: Yeah, American style roast turkey with stuffing and all. INTERVIEWER: No shoyu or anything in it? YOSHIDA: No. INTERVIEWER: Let’s talk about your father a bit more. Please state your father’s name and give us his date of birth, place and date of birth. YOSHIDA: Takao Fujii. T-A-K-A-O Fujii. He was born November 29, 1900. INTERVIEWER: And where was he born? YOSHIDA: Oh, Fukuoka, Japan. It was in the coal mining region. INTERVIEWER: How was it that he came over? YOSHIDA: I think he came, you know, in---just like Chinese and Japanese, I think he was adopted by Yamamoto family, a relative in name only, and [20:00] came as Yamamoto’s son, or something like that. Because, I mean, the Yamamotos, you know, were family friends or distant relatives. But later on he somehow managed to change his name from Yamamoto back to his correct name, Fujii, but I really never asked him about that process, but that’s the conclusion I’ve gotten. INTERVIEWER: Your father, how many children were in, siblings, in his family? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: Was he the eldest? Or where in that--This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 61 �YOSHIDA: I don’t think so, but I really don’t know. But the thing is, I still have a portrait of his mother and father in its original frame, and I have it in my office and everybody looks at it. And it’s the original photo, and it has not faded or anything. It’s a beautiful piece. And my children have--know what I’m talking about. INTERVIEWER: Now, the parents that you speak of, your grandparents, are these the Fujii or the Yamamoto--YOSHIDA: The Fujii side, uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And what happened to the adoptive father that came here with him? YOSHIDA: Well, he was already in the U.S., he was in the laundry business. And later his son---he called his son to---but they went back to Japan, probably in the ’30s, early ’30s. They went back, and one of the daughters went back with them, the Yamamotos, and I did look her up on one of my visits to Fukuoka. INTERVIEWER: Did you---just to be clear here, the Yamamotos [22:00] already had a son other than your father? YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: And was he older or younger than your father? YOSHIDA: Younger. INTERVIEWER: And were there also girls in the family, the Yamamoto family? YOSHIDA: The Yamamotos had one daughter. INTERVIEWER: And was she older or younger than your father? YOSHIDA: Younger. INTERVIEWER: Do you know---or what do you know of the purpose of adopting your father? Was it because they had no children at the time, they wanted to be able to pass on a family name? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 61 �YOSHIDA: I have no idea. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Your grandparents on your father’s side, what do you know about them? YOSHIDA: Nothing. INTERVIEWER: All right. Would you go ahead and describe your father for us physically, and his demeanor? YOSHIDA: My father was a honest, a very conservative man. His avocation and later on his vocation was gardener. He loved gardening, and he raised beautiful flowers. And even as a child, how poor we were, we always had a garden. I remember he would have a tub of lily of the valley, his whole backyard would be filled with dahlias, and every day, whatever work he was doing, after work he would come home, have a glass of beer, and be out in his garden. He loved the garden. And after the war he became a gardener, but being a timid soul, he never learned to drive, so he always worked for someone as a gardener. And later on in life, when he retired, I had half an acre of house and property, and the garden---I had nothing. [24:00] And he said, “Could I create your garden?” I said, “Please do.” And being in the nursery business, everything was--resources right there, because I lived right on the nursery premises. And if he needed peat moss, they would haul it over from the nursery. And he did create one of the most beautiful garden. I had a Japanese rock garden, I had a koi pond and everything. So after my mother died quite young, at age 60, so we moved him fairly close to where I lived and set him up in one of the houses we owned. And he came every day on his bicycle, which was about a mile away, and worked on my garden. And he created a couple of other relatives’ gardens. But that was his retirement. Every day he was in my garden. And, see, being in the potted plant business, I would get tulips---we would import tulips from Holland, and they always sent extra tulips for my garden, so my garden was just---it was gorgeous. I would have all these bulbs blooming. It was beautiful. After he died, it was really tragic. That’s another story. INTERVIEWER: Let’s go ahead and delve into that, and then I’ll---we’ll get back into the story line. YOSHIDA: Which---what? INTERVIEWER: Go ahead where you’re going. YOSHIDA: My garden? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. What was so tragic? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 61 �YOSHIDA: My father died in 1987, was it? No, ’68, ’78, 1978. And we tried to keep up the garden, we had all these Japanese pines---black pine and things like that, and we got to a point where we needed a professional gardener. And luckily a relative said, “Why don’t you call Dennis, [26:00] Dennis Makishima?” And Dennis came and looked at our garden, and it took him several years to repair the mess we’d made of our garden. And after that, Dennis took over and it was put back in the right shape, but we never had all these beautiful blooming plants. We always had blooming plants while he---my father was alive, but we never had that again. INTERVIEWER: Was he a tall---what was his height--YOSHIDA: No, he was only about 5’2” or 5’3”, I guess. Slightly built. Anyway, just loved mother nature and the garden, and he would grow vegetables for me on the side and just did---whenever he left the garden, it was like cleaning house. It was immaculate. And we---my flower arrangement teacher would come and would want to cut a branch off my garden, but we had to get his approval before we could cut any branch, because it would, you know, distort the shape of the bush or tree. Everything was trimmed, hand-trimmed, by him, and, you know, I had close to half an acre of garden. INTERVIEWER: Share with us a special moment in your memory of---something in your early childhood that you and your father either did together, or just something that stands out. YOSHIDA: Fishing. We used to go out with him on a rowboat in the Puget Sound at Point Defiance in Tacoma. We’d go salmon fishing. I loved fishing. Even after I got married, my husband and I spent 30 years in northern California, our holidays were fishing, and the kids went along, too. So I miss fishing greatly now. INTERVIEWER: What was the---your favorite [28:00] preparation of the fish you caught? YOSHIDA: Sashimi, I guess. We had fish in every form in those days. To think that---the terrific fish we used to have on the Puget Sound at one time. INTERVIEWER: Describe for us the first home that you remember living in. What did it look like? How many rooms? YOSHIDA: It was a small, rundown house. Had two bedrooms, small kitchen, little bathroom. It had a dining room and living room, though. But it was a real tiny house. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 61 �What about the amenities? You know, so many kids today, they’ve got all these different electrical gadgets and hot and cold running water. What did your house have? YOSHIDA: We had no refrigerator, we had no automobile, we had no telephone. We had running water. [Laughs] That’s all I could tell you. Oh, everything was cooked on wooden stove, house was heated with wood, because wood was plentiful in, you know, Washington. And so the hot water tank was heated---connected to the cooking---the stove, kitchen stove, so we had to always keep patting on the water tank to make sure that it didn’t get too hot and the water turned into steam. So we would be always patting on the water tank to make sure the hot water tank wasn’t getting---the water in the hot water tank wasn’t getting too hot. INTERVIEWER: What material did you use for padding? YOSHIDA: No, patting with our hands. [Laughs] To see whether it’s hot or not. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How about the bathroom and toilet and bathtub? [30:00] YOSHIDA: We had running water, we had a bathtub. INTERVIEWER: And was this a traditional American bathtub? YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: Describe that one for us. YOSHIDA: I think it was just a porcelain old-fashioned bathtub, and all the kids got in together and we were bathed. INTERVIEWER: Was this---when you say porcelain, was this the older type with the feet? YOSHIDA: Enamel. I think so. I think so. INTERVIEWER: And you mentioned no telephone. YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: If---what do you recall of ever having to use the phone? What kind of role did that play, and where did you have to go if that was necessary? YOSHIDA: Only time I could remember was when my mother was having her third or fourth child---there were four of us---my father had to run somewhere, to a grocery store or something, to call the midwife to come. Or---unless he ran over to her home to pick her up, I don’t remember. We didn’t need a phone. INTERVIEWER: Now, you just mentioned something about a midwife. What is a midwife? YOSHIDA: Someone who aids a woman give birth to a child. I was born in a hospital. I was the only one, I was the firstborn, and I was born at the St. Joseph Hospital in Tacoma. And after that my mother used a midwife, a Japanese midwife, who came and, after birth, she would come every day for a couple of weeks and cook for the family. In those days, I think that’s what a midwife did. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned three other siblings. YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: And would you name them for us, please, in order, and actually--YOSHIDA: I’m the eldest. INTERVIEWER: Yes. YOSHIDA: Okay. My brother is Masatoshi, M-A-S-A-T-O-S-H-I. [32:00] INTERVIEWER: And next? YOSHIDA: Keiko, K-E-I-K-O. Do you want her married name? INTERVIEWER: Sure. YOSHIDA: Okay, Wienbarg, W-I-E-N-B-A-R-G. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: And next? YOSHIDA: Kayoko, K-A-Y-O-K-O, Yuto, Y-U-T-O. INTERVIEWER: And what’s the age differences between you two---between the four of you? YOSHIDA: Okay, my brother and I are two years apart, then four years, six years apart, now; four years after that was Keiko, and two years after that was Kayoko. INTERVIEWER: Who were you closest with? YOSHIDA: Now I am closest with my only living sister, Keiko. But we were so many years apart that, to me, growing up was rough, because I was always having to care for them, watch them for my mother, when my mother had to go to work on Saturday, and cooking lunch for them and things like that. I was always---I felt like I was always running errands for my family, doing grocery shopping. So I don’t know. And then I had to take them to the Puyallup State Fair, drag these two little kids with me if I wanted to go to the fair. So I don’t know if there was any closeness developed at that time. It wasn’t until we grew up. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, because the responsibility--YOSHIDA: The responsibility, uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: What type of things would you prepare for them? YOSHIDA: What, for lunch? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, foods--YOSHIDA: [Laughs] We would go to the grocery store and get, [34:00] what was it, Van Camp’s pork and beans, a big can. See, well, we’d get 10 cents’ worth of lunch meat at the grocery store, make sandwiches. Things like that. Campbell's vegetable soup. INTERVIEWER: So, which one of your siblings was most problematic for you? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 61 �YOSHIDA: I don’t think they were that problematic. I can’t recall any incidents. INTERVIEWER: Aside from the responsibility, they didn’t create too much trouble for you? YOSHIDA: I didn’t think so. It was just that I had to drag them everywhere I went. INTERVIEWER: I’d like to ask you what---if someone were to have walked in that home of yours, what might they have seen in the way of décor or photos that would indicate that this is a Japanese American family? YOSHIDA: See, by the time my older---youngest two were born, we were living in another home, which was much larger, and it was a two-story house. Gee, as far as Japanese, well, we had our dolls set up on girls’ doll day. And on boys’ day, my mother would set up. [Inaudible] the house, it’s just nothing special. We did have a piano. INTERVIEWER: Were there any photos of relatives or---because your mother’s background, having that rich history, were there any symbols of family history in the house? YOSHIDA: No, because my grandparents lived in the same town as us. Only---the portrait that I still have of my father’s parents was the only prominent picture in my house. INTERVIEWER: [36:00] What was food preparation like at your home? What type of things would your mother typically make? YOSHIDA: We’d always have rice. She always made tsukemono, the pickles, because my father always had Japanese pickles, you know, tsukemono. We would have fish cooked in every form you could think of, from fish chowder to sashimi to cooked in soy sauce. Lots of fish dishes. And if times were really hard, wieners cooked with potato or something like that. I remember shelling peas, sitting on the front porch shelling peas. I used to hate it, shelling peas. But she used to make great pea rice, you know, white rice with peas, fresh peas. INTERVIEWER: What was your favorite dish that your mom used to make with some frequency? YOSHIDA: Oh, I know, macaroni and cheese. She would have hamburger and tomato sauce, and macaroni and lots of cheddar cheese. Those days we bought cheese, you know, in bulk, you know, and she would shred a lot of cheese and put it in the oven. Yeah, that was one of my favorite dishes. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 61 �What was the family religion? YOSHIDA: Buddhist. INTERVIEWER: And how frequently would your family attend services, if they did? YOSHIDA: We went to Sunday school every Sunday. It was sort of a social gathering place. So I did Bon Odori and everything else. INTERVIEWER: What’s Bon Odori? YOSHIDA: Bon is, you know, usually in August or end of July, Japanese not exactly celebrate the dead, but we remember the dead and having special [38:00] church services and doing the obon street dance wearing our new katas. And I did that ever since I could remember. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned that this is to honor the dead. What other things do you remember? What was done to actually honor this, and was this for recently departed or for ancestry? YOSHIDA: I presume it’s ancestry. Of course on Memorial Day, I always went with my grandparents to the cemetery, because my---I think it was my grandmother’s uncle who was buried there. That’s another story in itself. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: Let’s visit that one right now. YOSHIDA: Oh. It’s a notorious background, but I might as well, because I openly discuss it. But---I must have been about one year old, because I’m in this funeral picture. But I think it was my grandmother’s uncle, he was almost head of the local Japanese mafia, and in order to get a job in lumber mills or anything like that, you had to go through him. And he had a Chinese restaurant which---I heard through my brother that he had this Chinese restaurant as a front for prostitution, and when I was about one year old, he was assassinated, and his bodyguard managed to shoot the assassin. But my mother used to describe that he always had a bulge on his chest, [Inaudible] he was carrying a gun. But he was very good to my grandfather, and my grandfather was---had nothing to do with it. He never gambled or anything like that. But [40:00] my grandfather took care of his widow and daughter for the longest time, but I heard that his widow was already separated from him at that time. But I remember going to---I knew his widow and daughter. INTERVIEWER: In later years, what do you recall of ever going to that Chinese restaurant? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 61 �YOSHIDA: No, I never---I knew where it was located, but no. I think after he was killed, it never existed. INTERVIEWER: Let’s get back to your childhood. YOSHIDA: Okay. INTERVIEWER: And we talked a bit about the Buddhist church being a social function as well as for religious services. What type of social functions did you participate---you mentioned obon already, let’s talk about some of the others. YOSHIDA: Well, I was quite young, you know. One of the big things was belonging to the junior YBA. That was before you got to the Young---we had to---in order to join the YBA, you had to be over suchand-such age, but it was the Junior YBA, and it was just a social gathering. I don’t know, going to the skating---roller skating parties. That was one of the highlights of my younger days. INTERVIEWER: Let me just back up. What’s the YBA? YOSHIDA: Young Buddhist Association. INTERVIEWER: And you mentioned the skating party. What--YOSHIDA: Different organizations would have a Sunday afternoon rollerblading party maybe once or twice a year, and that was something to look forward to, shall I say. INTERVIEWER: And these were [42:00] roller skates, the four wheels? YOSHIDA: Yeah, you rented the roller skates and then you go round and round and round to the music. INTERVIEWER: Nowadays, our roller skates, it’s a boot and skate in one. What were yours like? YOSHIDA: No, it just hooked onto your shoes. INTERVIEWER: Describe that for us, and how you adjusted it. YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 61 �You know, I can’t remember, but there was a clamp on the---near your toes, I guess, and then you tightened it somehow with a screw or something, a key or something, I think, in those days. INTERVIEWER: And so would it just close down or--YOSHIDA: Yeah, I guess your shoe would have---it would clip onto the side of your shoe, evidently. INTERVIEWER: Would they---did they roll real well? Were they very--YOSHIDA: I guess we managed. I mean, it was on hardwood and--INTERVIEWER: Did you only skate on hardwood, or did you ever go outdoors? YOSHIDA: Oh yes. I must be in about third grade, my parents bought me roller skates, and we used to roller skate on the sidewalk. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned the YBA. What---other than just socializing, what type of gatherings would you have and, if this applied, any social responsibilities? YOSHIDA: See, we were too young to go dancing. And I can’t remember, what did we do? We must have gone on picnics or something like that, but I just don’t remember. INTERVIEWER: Okay. What was the most important holiday in your family? YOSHIDA: Gee, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year’s. INTERVIEWER: You mention obon as what was obviously a Japanese observance, a Buddhist observance. Were there any holidays that were Japanese culturally that your family observed? YOSHIDA: Well, [44:00] Buddha’s birthday in April. And Girls’ Day and Boys’ Day. INTERVIEWER: What would be done for Boys’ and Girls’ Day? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 61 �You know, they just had special colored mochi, but other than that, I don’t remember. And we would get little, you know, little cakes, rice cakes, and things like that. It had---in the center it had sweetened adzuki beans in there, and to this day, I still love them. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned mochi. What is mochi? YOSHIDA: It’s pounded rice, pounded sweet rice. INTERVIEWER: And what’s the consistency? What does the final product look like? YOSHIDA: Just a starchy mass, shall I say. INTERVIEWER: And is it considered a food staple or a confection? YOSHIDA: I don’t know, how would you say that? You could eat it as a meal over a soup, evidently, but it’s maybe more a confection. Confection, yes. INTERVIEWER: What can you tell us about how it’s made? YOSHIDA: When I was very, very young, they used to have mochi tsuki pounding of the rice, and just before new year’s, different families would gather together and steam this sweet rice, and they would pound it on the wooden, what do you call that? They would have a big wooden thing to pound it. INTERVIEWER: Like a big stump? YOSHIDA: Stump, I guess, uh huh. And it was almost a party, you know, when they made it, because the families would get together and the old men would drink sake while they pounded the rice. And it was a big family social gathering, just to pound the rice. INTERVIEWER: What would they use to pound the rice? [46:00] YOSHIDA: These big mallets, shall I say, wooden mallets. And then all the women would be shaping it into round bun, shall I say, shape, and then save it for new year’s. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 61 �Was there something very rhythmic about the manner in which they pounded it, or was it just everybody had their own mallet and just--YOSHIDA: I think the person who turns the rice as they pounded it, I guess, created some kind of rhythm and would say something, I guess. But I can’t remember exactly what they said, but I think he’s the guy that created the rhythm for the rice pounding. INTERVIEWER: And was there one person pounding, or more? YOSHIDA: Usually about two would be pounding while the one guy would turn the rice without being hit by the mallet, shall I say. INTERVIEWER: For Japanese, what would you say was---you mentioned Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year’s as being important holidays in your family. Which of those three would you say was the most important? YOSHIDA: Well, for, I guess, Japanese, it would be New Year’s. But in those days, the men went from house to house and, you know, they’re drinking and eating the food that they had prepared. And I remember they always used to end up at our house, my father’s group, the senior men from the church. Oh, that’s another thing I have to talk about. But anyway, they used to end up at our house, and they would get drunk and they would dance, and, you know, here were us kids on the side just observing the whole thing, [48:00] you know. But it was all like a man’s holiday, because the ladies had to stay home and do all that cooking for days. Talking about the men’s group, about my father’s group, I just thought about it. He was, I don’t know if he was the president or treasurer of the men’s Buddhist group at the church, and once a year they sponsored a baseball tournament, usually, I think, on the Labor Day weekend. And they would invite baseball teams from as far as Portland, Seattle, and the neighboring communities, and they would have a tournament in Tacoma. And it was an annual affair. That much I remember. INTERVIEWER: Did your father participate or just organize? YOSHIDA: In his younger days, my father did play baseball. And when he broke his collarbone, his fatherin-law said, “You’re married now and you have kids, so you better stop playing.” So he had to cut it out. But because of that, he always loved baseball. I remember when Babe Ruth came to Seattle, he and his friend went all the way to Seattle to see Babe Ruth. INTERVIEWER: What was your favorite food that was prepared for New Year’s that you might not see the rest of the year? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 61 �Boiled Alaskan shrimp that you peeled with your own hands, and you sucked the eggs, the shrimp eggs. And to this day I love it, but they’re hard to get. INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else that you’d like to discuss about that period? YOSHIDA: Just every so often, when I start to talk about it, you think of something, but I can’t think of anything at this time. [50:00] INTERVIEWER: I’d like to ask---actually, you know, what was the racial makeup of your neighborhood? YOSHIDA: I didn’t live, shall I say, in a---right in a Japanese ghetto, shall I say. See, it depends what period of my childhood I lived, because I lived in three different places growing up, until World War II. And most of the time there weren’t very many Japanese living near me, it was mostly whites. INTERVIEWER: Let’s break that down into the years. What age range in these three different locations? YOSHIDA: Until I was about 6 or 7, I lived in this little tiny house that I first described, and then they were forced to move out of there. I don't know if they were going to demolish that house or what. So we moved to another house that was much smaller. INTERVIEWER: And was this all in Tacoma? YOSHIDA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: What was the neighborhood that you were in, the first house? YOSHIDA: That street, Fawcett Avenue, there were many Japanese living on Fawcett Avenue. INTERVIEWER: What district was that? YOSHIDA: Oh--INTERVIEWER: Do you remember? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 20 of 61 �It was little---it was about one or two blocks from downtown, the main business, Japanese community business area. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And then the second house, from what age to what age? YOSHIDA: Oh, until about age 7 till I was 12 or 13. And we moved higher up on the hill, a few blocks up on the hill, and that area was---there was maybe one-fourth to one-third Japanese, and rest of them were Caucasian. Then from about [52:00] 13 until the war started, I---we lived---my parents bought a laundry, hand laundry, so we lived in back of the laundry. That was strictly a white area. But we were across from the grade school that everyone attended. INTERVIEWER: What was the name of that grade school? YOSHIDA: Central School. INTERVIEWER: The kids growing up, who were your best friends? YOSHIDA: Oh, gee. I still talk to my best friend about once a month, she lives in Los Angeles, one of my best friends. Michi Taira, T-A-I-R-A, Hori, H-O-R-I. INTERVIEWER: What made her so special that that relationship still stands? YOSHIDA: I guess our parents were friends and it just---we just, you know, through church and things like that. It was a small town, and she wasn’t in my class, but usually your friends were in your grade level at school, shall I say. I still talk to two friends in Seattle. One is gone, I still talk to another one in Detroit, Michigan. INTERVIEWER: What’s her name? YOSHIDA: Nobi Suyama, S-U-Y-A-M-A, Zaran, Z-A-R-A-N. INTERVIEWER: What was special about your relationship? What about her character and her--YOSHIDA: I became good friends with her actually during wartime. She was about a half-year, a year older than me. [54:00] And we went to---walked to school every day in Tule Lake. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 21 of 61 �Okay. Your education---where did you go to school first? YOSHIDA: Central School, grade school. INTERVIEWER: And how many years did you spend there? YOSHIDA: Six. And I went to McCarver, M-C-C-A-R-V-E-R, Junior High School, seventh and eighth grade. INTERVIEWER: And your high school? YOSHIDA: Wartime camp. INTERVIEWER: Okay. YOSHIDA: First year, my sophomore year, was Tule Lake. My junior year was Jerome, Arkansas. And I graduated from Heart Mountain High School when the war ended. And that’s the extent of my education. INTERVIEWER: During those early years at Central School, what kind of topics interested you? YOSHIDA: Nothing special. I liked history. I don’t know, I liked math. Can’t think of many things. INTERVIEWER: What period of history in particular was of interest to you? YOSHIDA: Nothing particular. I’m more interested in history in my older age, I think. INTERVIEWER: How about in [56:00] those early years, you mentioned that history was of interest, so was there anything in particular about it? YOSHIDA: Not really. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Was it something that was---that kind of came naturally to you, and you read well? Or what about it? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 22 of 61 �I couldn’t tell you. I just---it’s so vague. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Who in those early years during school stood out to you? Either that they seemed to kind of reach out and extend a hand in the way of a leadership role or a role model in elementary school. YOSHIDA: I just remember my English teacher and my arithmetic teacher, because they were such sticklers for the subject they taught, and I’m grateful for that. But no one in particular. INTERVIEWER: What were their names? YOSHIDA: Miss Barsay I think it was, and oh, what was the, I can’t even think of the English teacher now. I could see her. INTERVIEWER: The first teacher you mentioned was--YOSHIDA: I think it was Barsay or---I can’t---you know, it’s been such a long time. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How about in junior high school? What was that transition like, actually, for you, to go to junior high school? YOSHIDA: I guess you thought you were pretty big, I guess, growing up. And I remember junior high better, because I did a lot of typing, started taking typing lessons. And I was in the glee club and things like that. INTERVIEWER: Who in that school [58:00] kind of stood out and maybe reached out with a guiding hand there? YOSHIDA: Gee, I could---the only person I could--- END OF AUDIO FILE 1 BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO 892-Yoshida-Fusae-2 INTERVIEWER: [00:00] I want to ask you---actually, step back a little bit, and you were talking about your grandfather and his love of baseball. Let’s talk a little bit more to that. Where did he get his interest in baseball? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 23 of 61 �YOSHIDA: We were talking about my father. INTERVIEWER: Oh, your father. YOSHIDA: Uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: I’m sorry. YOSHIDA: I think he played amateur baseball when he was in the United States. I think he picked it up in the United States before he got married, and he played baseball well after he was married. And then he broke his collarbone, and his father-in-law said, “You’d better cut it out, because you’ve got a child.” I guess he didn’t want to see my father crippled or something like that. So he gave up baseball, but he always loved baseball, and I guess I---did I tell you he went to see Babe Ruth when he came into town? Even in his later life, he didn’t read the English newspaper, but he always subscribed to it because he would go through the sports page and he would follow the Major League standings. And whenever anybody offered take him to the ball game, he went. He liked sports, period. Our friends would say, “Do you think Grandpa would like to go to a basketball game?” I’d say, “Yeah, sure. I’ll tell him you’ll pick him up.” And, you know, complete--Caucasians or friends would pick him up and take him to basketball game. He would love to go to the football games during the football season. He would have two TVs side-by-side, and he would watch the football games. So we would---you know, in his---when he was still alive, [02:00] the Oakland Raiders were at its peak, and the Oakland A’s were in the World Series, and he loved it, because we would take him to all these games. INTERVIEWER: When he was playing, what position did he play? YOSHIDA: I have no idea. Never asked him. INTERVIEWER: What do you know of the team that he played on, you know, you actually talked about the idea of---was it he or his father that organized the league games, the visiting teams? YOSHIDA: He was---my father was involved in his Japanese men’s group sponsoring Labor Day baseball tournaments. You know, I told you, they invited teams from Portland, Seattle, Puyallup, all the neighboring towns, and they would have a weekend tournament. INTERVIEWER: When all these different teams visited, was it just over a weekend or was it a long affair? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 24 of 61 �No, it was just the Labor Day weekend. INTERVIEWER: And what do you recall of who the top teams were? YOSHIDA: I don’t know a thing about---I don’t remember a thing. INTERVIEWER: Okay. YOSHIDA: I think I was just too young. INTERVIEWER: What do you know of---you mentioned that your father went to Seattle to go see Babe Ruth. YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: We’ve heard stories of Babe Ruth and some of the other baseball stars at the time doing some exhibition games actually against Japanese teams. YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: What do you know of that? YOSHIDA: I don’t know a thing about it. I just know that he did go see Babe Ruth. INTERVIEWER: You’re talking about his love of sports and that he would subscribe to various papers, actually. YOSHIDA: Well, the Oakland Tribune, and he would follow the standings. And later on, when everything was on TV, oh, [04:00] we didn’t have to worry about entertaining him because he had his TV and sports. INTERVIEWER: How proficient was he with English? YOSHIDA: Not very good, but he managed. INTERVIEWER: And his---now, in his gardening business, who were his clients? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 25 of 61 �YOSHIDA: He was not---he did not have his own business. Like I said, he was quite timid. He was not a businessman, so he always worked for a gardener. But I think he was better than the guy who was supposed to be his boss, because anytime he left a garden, it was immaculate, like someone had cleaned your house. It was immaculate. And when he pruned trees and bushes, it was just---after he retired and when he was---he had created my garden, more people wanted to hire him, but I said, “No, he’s too old. He’s my gardener.” INTERVIEWER: And with the dry cleaning business, the laundry business, who were the clients there? YOSHIDA: Caucasian. INTERVIEWER: How about your mother, being that she was kind of raised between two cultures. What was her proficiency in English? YOSHIDA: My mother, after she came back from Japan when she was, I think she was about 17, the family sent her to grade school, and here, this grown woman sat with little kids. So she learned to read, and she wrote beautifully. In fact, to this day, I look at her handwriting and, oh, mine is nothing compared to her beautiful handwriting. But she managed quite well. INTERVIEWER: I notice with my own mother, in writing, in going to school, that a lot of people that went to school [06:00] at her time have a very similar handwriting. Have you noticed anything like that? YOSHIDA: I don’t know, but anyway, to this day it’s beautiful. INTERVIEWER: What year did you get out of your junior high school, did you graduate from your junior high school? YOSHIDA: In those days, my junior high school was seventh, eighth, and ninth, and so I finished---near the end of my eighth grade, we were evacuated. INTERVIEWER: Okay. YOSHIDA: Or was it---was it my ninth? No, it was my ninth. Yeah, ninth grade. INTERVIEWER: Okay. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 26 of 61 �YOSHIDA: But we didn’t go to high school until our sophomore year, that’s right. INTERVIEWER: Let’s talk about that period just before the war started. Your father, being a very avid reader--YOSHIDA: Not a avid reader. He was just an avid sports fan. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: Okay, I stand corrected. How aware was your household about the war conditions over in Japan, or even in Europe? What discussion, if anything, took place about what was going on overseas? YOSHIDA: There wasn’t that many---much discussion, but we subscribed to the Life magazine, and we even subscribed in camp all throughout the war, and I think that was sort of a window to the world, for me anyway. Parents had subscribed to a Japanese newspaper, and whatever was in the Japanese newspaper, I guess, was in the Oakland Tribune. My mother may have---not Oakland Tribune, what am I saying, Tacoma Tribune. [08:00] I don’t know how much my mother read the paper, but---they didn’t have---I don’t think they had any communication with Japan. INTERVIEWER: Do you---what do you recall of any concerns, maybe, in the community? Any buzz about what was happening in Manchuria or, you know, any of the other efforts that Japan was making? YOSHIDA: You know, I am too young to remember. I was too young, I feel. But I remember the Japanese community sending food packages to Japanese soldiers and things like that. There was a strong force there, shall I say, because they, I guess, believed in their country and whatever news, what they got, was probably pretty well propagandized. INTERVIEWER: So were these packages in the way of like care packages, supplies? YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: What kind of things? YOSHIDA: They were created by the head of the Japanese language school, and every family was given something like two cloth bags and they were supposed to fill it with things for soldiers, like cigarettes and candies and things like that. I remember that much. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned Japanese school. How many years of Japanese school did you attend? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 27 of 61 �YOSHIDA: I started from kindergarten. And to this day, I’m grateful to that kindergarten. My brother started going with me since he was 3 years old, mind you, probably for my mother to get rid of us in the [10:00] morning from home. And the principal of the school must have really had a foresight, because they hired a Caucasian, a woman, twice a week, Mrs., what was it, Snyder. And she taught us the ABC and how to read the first primer at an early age. And I remember we would go to the corner of the street waiting for her to come by streetcar, and waiting for her to come, and we would all wait for her and walk with her back to school. Mrs. Snyder. INTERVIEWER: Now, she was teaching ABCs in English? YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. So by the time we were in first grade, we knew how to read the first grade primer. INTERVIEWER: As far as your Japanese schooling, Japanese language schooling, how long did you go? YOSHIDA: Until the war. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall in the way of stories that were utilized to help you learn the language? What was the content or, you know, was it folklore or history? YOSHIDA: You know, fairy tales. And---I think so, it was more stories based on Japanese, maybe folklore, like Momotaru and Hanasaka Jiji, and things like that. INTERVIEWER: Tell us a little bit about these characters. Who are they? YOSHIDA: Oh, gee, you know, Momotaru---an old couple were doing their laundry by the river, and they had no children, and [12:00] a big peach came rolling down the river and they took it home. And when they opened the peach, a little boy came out of it and they called him Momotaru. Later on, Momotaru went out to fight the enemy, or something like that. But I’ve forgotten much of the details. INTERVIEWER: What does Momotaru mean, translated? YOSHIDA: Momo is peach, taro is a famous---you know, most Japanese names, a lot of Taros. INTERVIEWER: Any other stories that stand out? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 28 of 61 �No. INTERVIEWER: Were there any---what did they teach in the way of culture or values, traditional Japanese values, in Japanese school? YOSHIDA: Well, whenever they had graduation, the principal was a stickler as far as Japanese manner or ceremony, and whenever you went to get your certificate or your outstanding scholarship, you had to go up the stairs a certain way, how to borrow, how to receive the certificate and everything. He was very Japanese, stickler for proper way to bow and which way to move and things like that. INTERVIEWER: Given that he was a stickler for all these protocols, how about if somebody didn’t follow those protocols? Were there any punishments? How was the rule of law conducted in [Laughs] Japanese school? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. Everybody, I guess, followed what they were told to do. Oh, [14:00] in class, the boys would, you know, act up, and teacher would have a hard time, you know, sometimes getting them under control. And us girls would be talking all the time. INTERVIEWER: No punishments? YOSHIDA: Not that I know of. INTERVIEWER: I heard that sometimes some of the Japanese schools also provided, as an extension, martial arts training. Did your brother have any martial arts training? Or, what did they do there--YOSHIDA: No, they didn’t have martial arts. They didn’t have any. During recess, the boys were playing baseball. I did a little bit of kendo, Japanese fencing, when one master from Japan came in. Of course Grandpa was involved in everything, so he wanted somebody from the family, so he outfitted me and I went, and I did it for maybe a short period of time, maybe not even a year. And that one has a lot of protoc---I mean, how do you want to say, ritual too. INTERVIEWER: Now, I’m a little surprised to hear that you were taking kendo. Was the fact that a female would be in kendo in those years, was that typical or atypical? YOSHIDA: No, there were women in kendo. INTERVIEWER: And is the style of fencing and the garb similar for males and females? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 29 of 61 �YOSHIDA: Yes, they were the same. INTERVIEWER: Okay. I want to ask you, actually, at home, at your home life, what was---who was in charge of discipline at home? YOSHIDA: Oh, gee. I guess my mother, she was home most of the time. I don’t recall. [16:00] INTERVIEWER: And again, at home, what were the values that your parents passed on to you? YOSHIDA: I guess honesty. My father was a very honest man. And so in a way, he---he was not dramatic, or he would be a poor salesman, and everything was as it is. I could think, to this day, I’m a poor salesman. My husband was a fantastic salesman. Because if I’m selling a piece of merchandise---I was in the flower business---if I sell a flower, I will point out the flaw to the customer, and my husband would just completely ignore that. He could sell you anything. I saw the flaw be, I guess, anything. That’s all I could think of. INTERVIEWER: Okay. What was typical of entertainment for your household? Would you go see movies, or listen to the radio? What type of things did your family do? YOSHIDA: We had one small radio, and my brother and I used to fight over what program we would listen to. Later on, as times got a little bit better, just before the war, my parents would let me go to the movie almost every Sunday after Sunday school. And in the summertime I was going to the beach. Even though we didn’t have a car, we managed to have friends take us, you know, because all these different organizations used to have picnics, you know. Like Japanese school would have a big picnic. [18:00] Everybody came from a different province, and they had these province organization clubs, you know. If you came from Fukuoka, you belonged to the Fukuoka kenjinkai, which means club, they’d form. And they would have their own little individual picnics, and they would have their New Year’s party. Well, New Year’s party was usually strictly men only. So going to the beach, because we lived near the Puget Sound, and going fishing with my father. INTERVIEWER: When you went to the movies, how often would you go, and what did it cost? YOSHIDA: You know, I can’t remember how much it cost. Was it 25 cents, or what? I remember I saw almost all the Mickey Rooney movies. INTERVIEWER: Was he your favorite star or were there others? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 30 of 61 �YOSHIDA: Not really. INTERVIEWER: Who else did you like in those days? YOSHIDA: Judy Garland. I can't remember. INTERVIEWER: Now, tell us, what did you get for your money in those days? You know, did you see one film, two films, or other things? YOSHIDA: I think it used to be double feature in those days, and that’s it. Maybe going into the movie, I would buy a caramel apple or something like that, and munch on the caramel apple throughout the movie, or something like that. That sticky stuff. That’s about it. INTERVIEWER: How about cartoons or newsreels? YOSHIDA: Yeah, that’s how we got the news, you know, at the movies. INTERVIEWER: What do you remember of any newsreel footage, especially, particularly, before the war started? YOSHIDA: Oh, they showed a lot of war footages, mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: Do you recall whether that was footage about Europe or Japan or both? YOSHIDA: It was mostly Europe, [20:00] I think, mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: And you mentioned earlier that you had a subscription to Life magazine and that kind of opened a window to the world. What do you recall of coverage, maybe something that really was fascinating to you, and also, along that same lines I asked earlier, anything of coverage of the wars? YOSHIDA: Like I said, we had Life magazine subscription all throughout the war, and I looked forward to it every week. And it covered everything, I think. I figured that was my newspaper, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember any particular stories that stand out? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 31 of 61 �YOSHIDA: No. INTERVIEWER: When you listened to the radio, what type of shows did you enjoy listening to? YOSHIDA: I don’t remember. I just remember just fighting with my brother, who---which---oh, I know. My brother liked all those Jack Armstrong and boys’ programs, but at summertime, maybe in the month of June, we would go to Japanese school half a day in the morning, and I’d run home because I wanted to listen to all the soap operas, and summertime was the only time I could listen to the soap operas. I remember the soap operas. INTERVIEWER: Which soap opera was your favorite? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. I remember Ma Perkins. But there was---anyway, I remember---all I could remember was running home from school, Japanese school, so I could turn on the radio and listen to that day’s episode of the soap opera. INTERVIEWER: Who is Ma Perkins? YOSHIDA: I can’t remember. She was a character in this one. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: Okay. I want to ask you about December 7, 1941. Tell us your memory of that day, how it started and the repercussions. YOSHIDA: It was definitely Sunday. I went to Sunday school. And it was---we lived quite a ways from Japanese town area, and walking home, I don't know, I heard something funny by two men talking on the street. And I got---when I got home, my mother must have heard it on the radio. She said, “Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.” And my father had gone fishing. And usually my father and my grandfather, you know, my mother’s father, went fishing in the Puget Sound, especially when the weather was good. And they found out after they came back to the boathouse that the war had started. That’s all I could tell you. INTERVIEWER: What was your mother’s reaction when you got home? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. I guess she was worried, you know. But she---I think she kept to herself most of the---all her feelings. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 32 of 61 �You said the two men that you noticed on your way home, they were talking kind of funny. How were they reacting? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. I just can’t remember. But I knew something was going on. The way they sounded, you know. They weren’t looking at us or anything like that. INTERVIEWER: And were these Caucasians, or--YOSHIDA: Yeah, they were Caucasian, mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How about when your father and grandfather got home. What do you recall of their coming in and talking about what had occurred? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. My grandfather---I don’t know, they were, I’m sure, worried what was going to happen. But we didn’t know until that next day that during the night, my grandfather---the FBI came and took my grandfather away. [24:00] INTERVIEWER: What was any reasons given for that? YOSHIDA: Well, he was a civic leader. I told you he was involved in the Japanese language school and the Buddhist church, and like I said, he was always involved when something like the Japanese Navy would come to visit, he would be on the welcoming committee. INTERVIEWER: What were the occasions that the Japanese Navy ships would come in? And was the---were these warships or cadets? YOSHIDA: Yes, they were---I don’t know if they were warships, but there were definitely cadets, mm hmm. And they would have receptions for them and things like that. INTERVIEWER: And when they had these receptions, how long would the ship be in town for? YOSHIDA: I have no idea. Must have been two or three days. INTERVIEWER: Your grandfather’s relationship with these visiting ships, did he have ongoing communication with any of the naval personnel? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 33 of 61 �I doubt it. I couldn’t give you any information. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How long did they hold your grandfather for? YOSHIDA: At first they didn’t even know where they had sent him, but they found out he had been taken to Missoula, Montana, like most of the people that were, shall we say, arrested. And I think they had a hearing, and my aunt did go to the hearing, but I don’t know anything about what happened. And there’s a woman here who has a list, some information on Missoula, Montana, so I want to find [26:00] her. And then he was sent to Lordsburg, New Mexico. And I wrote to him, I wrote to him at least twice a week in my broken Japanese, in my simple Japanese alphabet. But I always wrote to him. And I’m not sure, but I’ve been thinking, maybe he was transferred, later transferred to Santa Fe. But they released him while we were in Tule Lake, so he must have been incarcerated about a year and a half or something like that. And I guess I mentioned to you, when he got off the bus, when he came back, he had just aged tremendously. I mean, I could still see it to this day. INTERVIEWER: How about in his demeanor? What---how did that---how was that affected? YOSHIDA: What? INTERVIEWER: You mentioned that, you know, you could physically see that he had aged, and I’m wondering how it affected his personality, whether he still was the same person for you, or whether that changed as well. YOSHIDA: Well, I don’t know. I didn’t---I had closer communication with him before the war, and during the war, no, because we didn’t see each other every day, he lived a few blocks away. But I know he must have been quite bitter, because I think to the end he thought Japan had won the war, or things like that. But the family said, Hey, we’re not going back to Japan, you know. And he went along with one of the other aunts and not with our family after the war ended. He went to live with one of the [28:00] other---another daughter. INTERVIEWER: Now, what do you mean by “to the end he thought that Japan had won the war”? YOSHIDA: Well, not to the end, but he couldn’t believe it when the news came that Japan had lost the war. INTERVIEWER: So he---in his mind, he really felt that they were a strong enough power to be able to conquer the U.S. and Europe? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 34 of 61 �Well, I think people had secret shortwave radios in camp, and Japan was shooting propaganda into these shortwaves. And I think he used to find these places and go listen to the shortwave radio and listen to all the Japanese propaganda, you know. That’s what I think. INTERVIEWER: Now, when you say you think that, how did you hear about the possibility of this happening? YOSHIDA: Because they said he was going to somebody’s place almost daily, you know, and that’s what I assume, or I---you have some kind of inkling. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned in the earlier days that your grandfather would come to your house and update you about all the news in Tacoma. Similarly, when you did see him when he’d visit, was he doing a similar update of news that he had heard? YOSHIDA: No. Yeah, I didn’t have that much interaction or communication with him when we were in camp. INTERVIEWER: Okay. As far as on a level of how life was before the war had started versus after, what experience, if any, did you have [30:00] with prejudice before the war started? YOSHIDA: I sensed very little. My mother and father’s customers were 1 00 percent Caucasians. And they were fairly close friends with a black man who had a white wife, and they used to come visit quite often, but---the Tanners. But, found out later from my aunt that this Mr. Tanner, this black man, was quite influential in some labor union. But I don’t know a thing about him but what I--what my aunt talked about, and that’s all I know. And we had a great landlord, and he was sorry he was gonna lose a tenant. And before we left for camp, he gave me some money to go buy new clothes to go to camp. INTERVIEWER: Your grandfather was picked up. Who else are you aware of in the community that was picked up? YOSHIDA: The Japanese---the principal at the Japanese language school. And he died, and my grandfather brought his hair and fingernails back to his wife when he was released. And to this day, I’m so sorry I was too young and naïve or what that I never talked to my father to get more detail about what had happened [32:00] in these camps that they were placed. And so that’s why this morning I went to one program, and it was very enlightening, when I went to this program this morning, because I want to learn more of what happened in these camps. INTERVIEWER: Now, what was the significance of bringing hair and fingernails back? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 35 of 61 �Because this widow would be left with nothing. And I guess it’s sort of Japanese, I guess, to bring back this guy’s, shall I say, person, back to his widow. INTERVIEWER: And the fingernails, were these clippings? YOSHIDA: I guess so. I never saw them. INTERVIEWER: All right. Anyone else that you’re aware of as far as leaders in the community that were picked up? Maybe some that we would think to be quite unusual as suspects? YOSHIDA: No, I don’t. INTERVIEWER: How about the priest from the church, the Buddhist church? YOSHIDA: I don’t know whether he was picked up or not. Because many churches, you know, did lose their minister, but I don’t know if our church minister was picked up or not. He was fairly young, and I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: Okay. The Japanese school teacher, what was his name? YOSHIDA: Yamasaki. I couldn’t give you his first name. INTERVIEWER: When---how about the attitudes toward your family after the war started? You mentioned that your landlord was very gracious and actually extended some money to you [34:00] to buy clothes before you were going to camp. What was his name? YOSHIDA: I don’t remember. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And how about either people in the neighborhood that weren’t so gracious--YOSHIDA: We didn’t know anybody in the neighborhood. INTERVIEWER: No one was overtly prejudicial? YOSHIDA: No. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 36 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: Okay. And how about other acts of kindness besides your landlord? YOSHIDA: Oh, our junior high school. Our junior high school had a special farewell assembly to bid us well. See, the mayor of Tacoma, I think his name was McCain, was one of the very few people who opposed the evacuation. And later he became a U.S. senator. INTERVIEWER: And his name was McCain? YOSHIDA: I think it was McCain. I’m just trying to think. I’m not sure. He was one of the very few people who opposed the evacuation in that caliber. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of that ceremony, the farewell ceremony? YOSHIDA: I just don’t know. I can’t remember. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of 9066? And to your memory, what is 9066? YOSHIDA: 9066 was the evacuation notice instructing, yeah. Then later on, the notice came for what we were supposed to assemble at a certain location for evacuation, but more than [36:00] 9066---I guess through 9066, everyone was aware that they had to close down their business and prepare for evacuation, being evacuated. So my parents, they had just gotten out of debt after buying this laundry and, you know, here we finally had a refrigerator we never had, and things like that. They sold all the equipment for nothing, practically. And my father’s distant cousin closed his laundry business and moved in with us, in fact. And so for one month, they kind of did their time waiting for the evacuation notice to come, and all they did was play Japanese card games, just marking time. And when the notice came, we were all to meet at the Union Station, at the railroad station. And I’m thinking whether our landlord was the one who drove us to the station---someone drove us to the station, because we lived quite a ways from the station, and we had to get there somehow with our, you know, things, our luggages. Someone was kind enough to take us over there. INTERVIEWER: How much notice do you remember having of---that you would have to evacuate? YOSHIDA: I have no idea whether it was one week or two weeks, but everyone was, at least mentally, prepared, because we weren’t evacuated until about May. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 37 of 61 �What do you recall of, actually, the 9066 statement as to what areas were covered by this order and---was it a blanket [38:00] statement, that all Japanese Americans were going to be relocated or evacuated? Or did you have an option to leave and go out to another area? YOSHIDA: I wasn’t aware that there was an option to leave, because in California, so many people went inland or went to Denver or somewhere. Because like my husband’s family, they thought they went far enough inland, but they were not, and they were eventually evacuated. But I don’t remember anything like that, and---at least I was not aware of that option. INTERVIEWER: For yourself, what were you allowed to take? YOSHIDA: I don’t know, whatever---your clothing and---my parents were---got some tin plates and utensils and things like that, thinking they may need it. And sheets and blankets, I guess. I don't know if they took blankets, but at least sheets. INTERVIEWER: Were you able to ship crates with your belongings? YOSHIDA: No. Later on, someone was allowed to go---my mother---parents had some of their things stored at a friend’s garage, and she had a sewing machine stored there, and somehow she---my mother managed to get her sewing machine shipped to her, and so she had her sewing machine, I think, in Tule Lake. INTERVIEWER: What happened to that new refrigerator? YOSHIDA: They must have sold it for a dollar. I don’t know. I don’t remember. INTERVIEWER: Okay. What do you remember of your parents’ demeanor, leaving, leaving town? YOSHIDA: Well, they [40:00] never complained, as far as I could remember. I think Japanese as a whole, by nature, aren’t very vocal about how they feel. Because I really don’t know, they must have been, you know, very disappointed that they had to give up their business when everything was starting to look, you know, so good. INTERVIEWER: Where did you first go to? YOSHIDA: Pinedale. The Pinedale Assembly Center was near Fresno, and when we arrived, May, it was hot, you know, something like 90 degrees or 100 degrees. Living in Washington, we were never used to that kind of weather. And it was hot, dusty. We lost our appetite. And there we were. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 38 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: What kind of housing did you go into? YOSHIDA: Barracks. We didn’t sleep on straw, anyway, like some people at Santa Anita did. We---they had a mattress, a thin mattress, on our cots. But we were all---six of us were in one room. And dusty, you know. Dust seeps through the windows and doors. INTERVIEWER: The Pinedale location, was it just an empty area that they placed these things in, or did it have a prior use? YOSHIDA: I think it was just an empty place. [42:00] I think so. I have no idea. INTERVIEWER: How about security? What type of security did you notice around there? YOSHIDA: You know, I remember the security more at Tule Lake than I do at Pinedale. I’m sure they had barbed wire fencing all around, but where can you go to escape? INTERVIEWER: What was the toughest part of being there at Pinedale? YOSHIDA: Toughest part? INTERVIEWER: Well, I guess, let me restate that. How did you deal with the transition of being somebody who was free to go wherever you wanted any time of the day, if you wanted to visit friends or go out for an ice cream or something, and now you’re in this confined area. How did that make you feel as an American, even, you know, just the fact that your freedom’s taken from you? YOSHIDA: I was, shall I say, too young. In a way it was a relief, because I was getting rid of the burden of having to cook for the family every day and having to shop for the family, grocery shopping, having to help my parents at the laundry every weekend, and then help take care of my siblings. So in a way I had some kind of a freedom, all of a sudden, to do as I pleased and be able to socialize with my girlfriends and make new friends. So I guess I shouldn’t say it this way, but it didn’t really traumatize me at that time. INTERVIEWER: In hindsight, [44:00] I can understand what you’re saying, the fact that it was actually a relief from the daily grind. YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 39 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: When you look back on that, how do you feel about that period? YOSHIDA: You know, to think that---what was our future going to be? My parents not knowing what was ahead of them. Financially, they had practically nothing. And where would we end up at? I think in the long term, probably, college was out of the question, because even if I got out, I would have to help support the family. But as I grew older, I think of the trauma---how traumatic it was for my grandparents and my parents. INTERVIEWER: For yourself, you mentioned the possibility of college. What did you hope to do after high school? YOSHIDA: Well, actually, in those days I talked about college, but I wasn’t thinking of college, but getting to some kind of office, doing office work or something like that. And so I did not take college prep, I took bookkeeping and typing and all the business things, which came in very handy after I got married. So actually I shouldn’t say college, it was, you know, maybe going to business school or something like that. INTERVIEWER: So, in those days, was that considered vocational training? YOSHIDA: I guess so. But still, the possibility of [46:00] a Japanese getting an office job was very slim unless you worked for a Japanese firm, too. And then in a way I wish, as I grew up, I wish I had a mentor, shall I say, which I did not have. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned that you didn’t get back into school until your sophomore year, is that correct? Until high school? YOSHIDA: Well, I had my sophomore year in Tule Lake, in high school, and then I had my junior year in Jerome, and then I had my senior year in Heart Mountain. And I graduated in the last graduating class of Heart Mountain. INTERVIEWER: So while you were in Pinedale, did you go to school there? YOSHIDA: No, it was too short a period of time. We were there only about two months. INTERVIEWER: And when you left Pinedale, where did you go? How did you get there? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 40 of 61 �Tule Lake by train. That’s northern California. INTERVIEWER: How long was that trip? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. Almost a day’s trip, I think. INTERVIEWER: When you were on the train, traveling on the train, what were the restrictions as far as either going outside at stops or if you had to draw window shades down? YOSHIDA: While the train was moving, you had to have your shades down. And, you know, all those trains was run by coal, I think, in those days, and the smoke was---I can just, even to this day, smell that smoke. INTERVIEWER: And was it just all the inhabitants of Pinedale going off to another camp, or were there civilians from the general populace on [48:00] the trains as well? YOSHIDA: No, it was just a special train. And there were, you know, soldiers guarding these cars, I guess. Yeah, they were all special trains. INTERVIEWER: What conversations, if any, did you have with any of these soldiers, these guards? YOSHIDA: None. INTERVIEWER: When you got to Tule Lake, describe that experience. What was the first thing you noticed about the location and the campsite itself? YOSHIDA: It was huge. I think it was one of the largest camps they had. And we were all herded onto a truck, and the truck took us in, I think. But it was kind of overwhelming, because it was such a huge place, and we were near the last ones to come in and---yeah, we were near the end, probably the last group, because even the Tacoma people were separated. Half were on one end of the camp, and the other was about a mile away at the other end of the camp. INTERVIEWER: What was your address? YOSHIDA: Ooh. Block 57, that’s all I could tell you. It was at the end of the camp, and we had the end unit. I don’t know if we had two rooms. I think we only had one room at that time. I don’t remember. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 41 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: Now, with one room, your parents, one boy, three girls, what kind of privacy did you have? YOSHIDA: None. But my brother was always off with his friends, and I think he hardly ever even had meals with his family. And I---even myself, I think---camp [50:00] didn’t help family eating together, because the kids would all go off their own way and eat with their friends, and I don’t think very many families ate as a unit during the wartime. I always ate with my girlfriends, unless---in Heart Mountain, sometimes they would bring in sashimi or food, and my mother would say, “Tonight we’re all gonna eat together, because I’m gonna buy sashimi,” you know, tuna, “and we’re going to eat at home.” So my mother would bring rice and vegetables home from the mess hall, but we would all have sashimi dinner in our barrack. INTERVIEWER: Where was she able to get sashimi? YOSHIDA: They sold it at the canteen. Maybe she placed special orders, but they would bring those in. Like this was in Heart Mountain, and I think they would bring it in from Denver or somewhere like that. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so this is later--YOSHIDA: Much later, much later. INTERVIEWER: Okay. You mentioned earlier that at Tule Lake, you definitely did notice the security. Tell us about what they had set up there. YOSHIDA: Oh, they had these watchtowers. I think all camps had watchtowers and barbed wire fencing. [Noise outside interrupts] INTERVIEWER: Let’s start again. What did you notice about the security there at Tule Lake? YOSHIDA: It was---had watchtowers. In the early days, I think they had searchlights going, you know, like [52:00] pictures you see of concentration camps. But later on, I think they figured out it was senseless to have those searchlights going on at nighttime. And they---a lot of us would go out the gate and go hiking and things like that. They would pack lunch for us, and my girlfriends and I, three of us would hike in the---my brother made a toboggan out of lumber, and we would drag the toboggan up the hill, and we would slide down during the snowy season, and things like that. But I remember hiking, doing a lot of hiking. We would---three of us would pick up a lunch made in the mess hall, a bologna sandwich or something like that, and hike the mountains. Oh, and harvest time. They needed manpower for harvesting the crop, and so one week there would be This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 42 of 61 �no school in the fall, and we would go out and sit in the middle of the cabbage patch and talk half the time, and try to pull carrots. Things like that. INTERVIEWER: When you were going out to do this harvesting, was it something that you would just go out on for day labor, or were you traveling to a farm and staying there for a period? YOSHIDA: It was a camp farm, and we just hopped on a truck and they took us out and dropped us off, and told us what to do, and that’s what we did. INTERVIEWER: And was this just something that you were doing as part of--YOSHIDA: Like a volunteer type of work. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How about your parents, were they working in camp? YOSHIDA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: What kind of work did they do? YOSHIDA: My mother worked as a waitress in our mess hall, and my father went in as an assistant cook. He’d never cooked in his life, except maybe cook rice, but his friends were there, so [54:00] he went there. And then---I always wanted spare change, and I was underage. I couldn’t work. And the first summer we were there, I said, I’d better make some money so I have some spending money, so I could order something I want from the Sears or Montgomery Ward catalogue. So my father’s distant cousin’s wife was not working, so I said, Hell, I’m going to use her name. So I used her name, got the job as a waitress during the summer, and I waited on tables on the mess hall. So I got the full adult pay of $16, and when---if you were under 16 or something like that, or under 18, I don’t know what, but you only got $14. So I got full $16 pay, and my father’s cousin’s wife endorsed the check, and I had $16 a month to spend. INTERVIEWER: How old were you at that time? YOSHIDA: Probably 15, I guess. I learned how to wait on tables. INTERVIEWER: And which camp was that in? YOSHIDA: Tule Lake. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 43 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: Okay. Now, you mentioned that you were getting $16 a month. What was---what was the wage for---give us some examples of other either positions or professions, even, and what the scale was. YOSHIDA: Everyone got $16 a month except maybe doctors. I think they got $19 a month. But many people were very Japanese, would give an envelope to the doctor. INTERVIEWER: This would be a way of---an extra--YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. Many people would put in there---and then, I think if you were under---yeah, I think it was under 16, or 18, anyway, $14. INTERVIEWER: What was the attitude of the guards there? What was your first [56:00] recollection of the relationship between the guards and the Japanese Americans staying there? YOSHIDA: I had no contact. Or I wasn’t aware of anything. INTERVIEWER: What were the rules that were laid out to you when you got there, as to what you could or couldn’t do? YOSHIDA: I really don’t know. I mean, every block had a block manager who took care of the mail, and I guess---who conducted meetings, block meetings, but I never attended any of the meetings. INTERVIEWER: What does a block consist of? YOSHIDA: Well, I don’t remember whether it consisted of 12 barracks or 15 barracks, and there was---each block had its own mess hall and had their own laundry room and bathroom and latrine. INTERVIEWER: You say their own mess hall, their own latrine. What did the latrine consist of? YOSHIDA: Just open stalls, I guess. There was no privacy. INTERVIEWER: Coming from a home environment, and now you’re in this very communal environment, actually a military environment, especially as a young girl, how did that make you feel, the lack of privacy? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 44 of 61 �YOSHIDA: It really didn’t bother me that much. I was with my friends. I mean, we would go to the shower together [58:00] and things like that, and I never complained about it. It didn’t---maybe I wasn’t that sensitive about situations---the situation at that time. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of people that weren’t as unaffected as you, that---what kinds of measures did you remember seeing of people trying to give themselves a little bit of privacy at the latrines or at the showers? YOSHIDA: You know, I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you. INTERVIEWER: How long were you there for---or actually, let me---you seem to have been fairly well adjusted to camp life, but what was maybe the most difficult part of being at Tule Lake for you? YOSHIDA: The difficulty was when we had to leave Tule Lake, because most of the Tacoma people signed up---you know, they had a segregation for people who refused to sign the loyalty act, or people who signed no, their loyalty oath, were to be all sent to Tule Lake. And so we were to be sent out of Tule Lake, and we went to Jerome, Arkansas. And most---at least they gave you a choice of camps, we thought. And most of the Tacoma people chose Minidoka, because Seattle people were in Minidoka, Idaho. Our family signed up as a unit. Now, there was my aunts and uncles, and my grandparents, we all signed it and said we all want to be together. So people who signed up in groups were sent to Jerome, Arkansas, because I guess nobody ever signed up for Jerome, Arkansas. So I had to part, [01:00:00] you know, with, you know, with my friends, all my good friends. And I was alone. I think, for me, that was very traumatic, to be torn away from my close friends. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned a loyalty oath. What was this, and who was it administered to? YOSHIDA: To every---every adult, I presume. I was too young, I didn’t have to sign anything. And my father felt that “my kids are Americans and I surely am not going to go back to Japan.” INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of any specifics--- END OF AUDIO FILE 2 BEGINNING OF TAPE THREE 892-Yoshida-Fusae-3 INTERVIEWER: [00:00] After you left Tule Lake, where did you go to? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 45 of 61 �YOSHIDA: We were sent to Jerome, Arkansas, by train, and I think it was about a four-day trip. So it was quite an ordeal, traveling four days without being able to sleep properly. Went through the wheat fields of Kansas. Anyway, when we got there it was late in the evening, but the people---you know, we were assigned to different blocks. People in our block were mostly from Fresno, and they were waiting for us to come, and they had dinner ready for us. And first time I ate Arkansas rice, it was just great. I mean, it was just different, and it was so great. That’s all I can remember, what great rice Arkansas had. And so we settled in Jerome, Arkansas, in 1943, I guess it was. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the month? YOSHIDA: No, it was probably late in the summer, maybe around August, late August or September. Before school started. INTERVIEWER: What was so different about Arkansas rice? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. It was unique. You know, Japanese like---you know, you can almost tell what rice you like. I don’t know. To this day, I just remember it was just different and good. INTERVIEWER: And was it long- or short-grain? YOSHIDA: You know, [02:00] I don’t remember. I don’t think it was long-grain. Probably around medium. INTERVIEWER: And did it have more of a hearty consistency, or--YOSHIDA: I don’t remember. It was just good. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: Okay, I’m going to let that one go now. We’ll move on. YOSHIDA: Jerome, anyway, was in Arkansas in the swamplands, entirely different climate from where we were. No more dust, lots of rain. When it rained, there was no school. That’s how it rained. You could leave a bucket outside, and it would---the bucket would fill up in a matter of minutes. And in the winter it was so cold that the walkway would ice up, and the trees would be coated with ice. It was something different. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 46 of 61 �How about---now, the barracks, with that kind of wet conditions and the cold, how were the barracks heated? YOSHIDA: The barracks were sort of elevated. It was similar. But they had a lot of hardwood, they used a lot of hardwood, I think. But I remember we all had to climb downstairs because of the rain, or something like that, uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: So they were elevated enough to require stairs? YOSHIDA: Uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: And how about---you mentioned that they used hardwoods. Were the construction or the materials of better quality than in Tule Lake? YOSHIDA: Well, I just remember the flooring was really nice. It was---I thought, anyway. I think it was--floors were hardwood, everything else was same, had tarpaper, you know, construction was very similar. INTERVIEWER: And to go a little bit more to that construction, where before the issue was dust in a drier environment, now [04:00] you’re in a cold and more damp or even freezing environment. How did the construction of the barrack hold up to this change of climate? YOSHIDA: I don’t think it affected it very much. I wasn’t there during the summer, but I’m sure it was very hot and humid. Because I got there late summer, I think about September, and left before the summer came. I was there only less than a year. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And at that camp, what was different about maybe the mindset of the people due to either the places they came from, or by the conditions in that camp? What did you notice different about this camp? YOSHIDA: It was a much smaller camp than Tule Lake. And I made friends---it was traumatic leaving my friends, but I made friends quickly and played quite a bit of basketball. I never belonged to any team, but every day after school I was shooting basketball with my neighborhood friends. And once we went on a picnic in the swamplands and actually saw water moccasins swimming in the rivers, and the birds were colorful, very colorful. And the teachers had southern accents. That was quite a unique experience. And one teacher openly talked about Ku Klux Klan. INTERVIEWER: What is that? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 47 of 61 �YOSHIDA: You know, the white supremacy, the people who used to---who wear hood and burn crosses, because they thought, I don’t know. You know, it’s white supremacy--- [06:00] INTERVIEWER: Well, what did that teacher actually tell you about them? YOSHIDA: She just told her experience of remembering her father growing up with his hooded costume, uh-huh. But she didn’t preach to us about anything. But she described it. INTERVIEWER: What was your sense of, here this person’s talking about her father being this Ku Klux Klan member and yet she’s here teaching Japanese Americans. YOSHIDA: Teaching Japanese Americans. I don’t know how I felt, but I thought at least she was open enough to talk about it to us, to make us aware of such a thing going on, because I think I didn’t even know anything about it until then. INTERVIEWER: What were other highlights, if you will, whether it was something that stood out that was a very positive experience, given the situation, being at camp, or the other extreme as well, the downside of being at Jerome? YOSHIDA: You know, I don't remember. Just going to school, and going to one of my first dances, shall I say. [Laughs] Not very often, but my father started allowing me to go to dances. INTERVIEWER: Tell us about that first experience. What was that like for you? What do you recall about--YOSHIDA: I don’t know, I was scared to ask my parents if I could go, but I guess they said okay, you know. I mean, to have an actual date to go dancing to the junior prom or something like that. INTERVIEWER: And so, was this---you mentioned actually having a date, so did you go with a guy, or a group of girlfriends? YOSHIDA: No, a guy who was in my class. Don’t ask me his name, I don’t remember. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: And did you dance quite [08:00] a lot, or did you tend to be a little bit of a wallflower? YOSHIDA: Well, if you have a date, you don’t have to worry about being a wallflower. I didn’t go to too many dances until I went to the next camp. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 48 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: Okay. What do you recall of that first dance, though? How was it for you? Did you dance a lot? YOSHIDA: Well, I don't know. This guy was kind of shy, and there wasn’t that much dancing, I don't think. But I knew he was a brain, anyway. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: What did you do to prepare for this dance? YOSHIDA: I don’t remember. I don’t even remember what I wore or anything like that. INTERVIEWER: How about in the way of dancing? Did you know how to dance, or did you practice with your girlfriends? YOSHIDA: A little bit, but not a lot. Yeah, a little. INTERVIEWER: Who were the bands that were popular at that time? YOSHIDA: Oh, you mean Tommy Dorsey and Benny Goodman. Frank Sinatra. Like all the music of those days. INTERVIEWER: Who was your favorite? YOSHIDA: I didn’t have any favorite. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Anything else you’d like to discuss about Jerome? Actually, I would like to ask you if you remember your address there. YOSHIDA: Oh, I---I knew it, but I just can’t tell you offhand. INTERVIEWER: There were also Hawaiians there. Did you have contact with them? YOSHIDA: Yes. There were students in my class, yes, and they were later sent to Tule Lake, I think. I thought segregation was over, but maybe it was something to do with the father or something, being interned or something like that. But I remember some of the people [10:00] being shipped to Tule Lake, yeah. So my contact with Hawaiians, it was a first experience of meeting This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 49 of 61 �Hawaiians who were Japanese from Hawaii, and their language and how they spoke. It was different. INTERVIEWER: So what was your impression of the language, and how did you fare as far as understanding them when communicating? YOSHIDA: It was---I could understand them. I just remember there were a few in my class, uh-huh. But I can’t tell you very much more. INTERVIEWER: Did you pick up any pidgin? YOSHIDA: No, no. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Anything else you’d like to discuss about that particular camp? YOSHIDA: No. INTERVIEWER: Why is it that you left Jerome? YOSHIDA: They decided to close that camp because so many of the people, especially the young people, were relocating to Chicago, Bird’s Eye frozen food in New Jersey was hiring people, and they decided, for probably economic reasons, to relocate us and close that camp. INTERVIEWER: What consideration did your parents ever give to leaving camp to another city to get out of that camp system? YOSHIDA: They didn’t give any consideration, because my father didn’t have any special skills, and I guess he was just going to wait it out, because---not until the war was over, which made him go out to seek a job and move the family out because school was starting and he wanted to make sure his children went to school. INTERVIEWER: And where [12:00] did you go from Jerome? YOSHIDA: To Heart Mountain, Wyoming. INTERVIEWER: And when was that? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 50 of 61 �YOSHIDA: It was in ’44, I think late spring or when---after school was over, I think, about June, early June or something like that. INTERVIEWER: How long did that trip take? YOSHIDA: I couldn’t tell you. It was a little bit shorter than going from Tule Lake to Jerome. INTERVIEWER: And actually, you had mentioned that further along in the camp life experience, that the security kind of lightened up. How was it in Jerome? YOSHIDA: Well, there wasn’t anyplace to go in Jerome, I think. There was much more freedom when we went to Wyoming. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Let’s talk about Wyoming. What was your first impression of that camp when you got there? YOSHIDA: It was more hip than Jerome. There were a big group from San Jose and from Los Angeles, and I’d say it was more hip. As soon as I got there, they had a welcome dance for the newcomers, and one girl made upon herself to become friends with me, and later on she became a very good friend of mine and made sure I got to dance and everything. So through her, I was invited to all these boys’ club dances, so all of a sudden I’m meeting all these fellows, and boy, that was something. INTERVIEWER: Now, how’d that first dance experience contrast to your actual first dance experience? YOSHIDA: Oh, it was much more, shall I say, hip. [Laughs] It was much more fun, too. I think I developed my dancing skills more there than [14:00] in Jerome. INTERVIEWER: Now, you mentioned that it was more hip, there were a lot of people from Los Angeles and San Jose. In the area, the block that you were in over at Jerome, where were the bulk of the people from? YOSHIDA: Los Angeles. INTERVIEWER: At Jerome? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 51 of 61 �YOSHIDA: No, in Jerome, it was from Fresno. INTERVIEWER: And at that point, was Fresno a more rural environment? YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Who was this friend that you made over at Heart Mountain? YOSHIDA: Oh, she is a Yasui now, but her name was Mickey Yabe, Miyuki Yabe, Y-A-B-E. And she subsequently married a Dr. Homer Yasui of Portland. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And tell us a little bit about that camp experience there in Heart Mountain. How did that contrast from what you’d experienced before? YOSHIDA: Well, as soon as I got to Heart Mountain, it was summer, I thought, I need a job. And I got word that they were looking for a clerk in the mess division down in the warehouse division, so I found out how to get there, got on the truck that went down toward the warehouse district, and I went, interviewed, got the job. But I only got $14 because I was underage. But that was my first clerical job. And throughout the summer, I worked there as a clerk, and working at the mess division was a lot of fun, because in those days, when a load of watermelon came in to the camp, they hand unloaded them, you know, they didn’t have any pallet system in those days. And so they told all the workers who unloaded, don’t drop any, because when they dropped it, they could---they would have a watermelon feast. So [16:00] they would say, “Don’t drop it, there will be a watermelon feast after the unloading.” So working at the mess division, it was fun. We used to have watermelon feast, they would have parties, and have good---great food, and it was quite an experience. And then it was much more easier to get out of that camp, and different groups would have weenie bakes, and in the evening we would get out of camp and go to the Shoshone River, and at the riverbank we would have weenie bakes and things like that. INTERVIEWER: You know, you mentioned earlier that you were very motivated to get a job because you wanted to have some spending money, buy things you’d like out of the catalogue. What kinds of things did you buy out of Sears and Montgomery Ward catalogues? YOSHIDA: Shoes, you know, to go dancing in. And what else? My mother sewed most of my clothes, because she took drafting and sewing in, I think, Tule Lake. So she made all my skirts and things like that. Yeah, just sweaters and things like that. INTERVIEWER: What kind of skirts, were these pleated or straight--This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 52 of 61 �YOSHIDA: Yeah, they were pleated skirts. Everybody wore pleated skirts, and my mother made my pleated skirts, you know. And she sewed my senior prom dress, and she and I designed it together. I could still tell you what it looked like. It was light aqua blue, and we had scalloped edgings around the collar, and she and I designed the dress, yeah. That was my senior prom dress, a wool dress. INTERVIEWER: And that collar, was it a circular collar or did it have a V? YOSHIDA: No, it was a V, it was kind of overlapping, and it had little scallops, and yeah, my mother and I designed it. INTERVIEWER: The scallops, were they a lace appliqué, or--YOSHIDA: No, no, just [18:00] on wool, but she made those scallops, and it was, yeah. INTERVIEWER: What kind of shoes did you purchase? YOSHIDA: Well, I had a dark brown pump I bought through the catalogue, and my aunt gave me my first silk stockings. Because in those days they were still silk, it was before the nylon days. So she said---she gave me a brand new pair, she said, “I’m going to give this to you.” And I remember my first silk stockings my aunt gave me, and I wore that to my prom, and my graduation too. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of your parents’ reaction, particularly, I guess, your father’s reaction to seeing you in your prom dress? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. I don't think my father paid much attention. It was my mother, I think, yeah. INTERVIEWER: I want to ask you, actually, a little bit of background just to see if this was something that you came across. In some of the camps they were making camouflage netting. What do you recall, if anything, of that? YOSHIDA: No. I heard about camouflage netting being made in Santa Anita through the friends, but I didn’t think there was any. I didn’t know of any. INTERVIEWER: Okay. YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 53 of 61 �I didn’t even know about such a thing until after the war. INTERVIEWER: Okay. You know, the newspapers within camp, what do you recall of the type of things that they’d discuss? YOSHIDA: Ooh, I can’t remember. I don’t even know what they discussed. I can’t remember. It just said all the events that were going to take place. INTERVIEWER: And was your father [20:00] following the camp sports? YOSHIDA: I don’t think he---my father picked up a hobby in camp, and it was more or less wood carving. He made a beautiful cane. He would go up in the hills, hike up the hills, and get wood stumps, and then chip away all the bark off and then make a, what do you want to call it, a lamp base and things like that. And he made a little chest of drawers, which became my jewelry box, and my daughter still has that. We remember him because my daughter has my father’s work, and my brother has the beautiful cane that he made in camp. INTERVIEWER: That’s wonderful. YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. INTERVIEWER: As far as your experience, now, you graduated high school in camp? YOSHIDA: Mm hmm. It was just before the war ended. I think the European war was already ended. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of any of the boys that you knew, or just the activity of boys joining the Army or being drafted? YOSHIDA: Only thing I could remember is one of my best friends’ brother volunteering from Tule Lake, and he was later killed in either Okinawa or one of those islands. But otherwise, I don’t remember any close friends being drafted. INTERVIEWER: How about services for boys that were killed in action? YOSHIDA: I didn’t attend any. My girlfriend was [22:00] in Minidoka by that time. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 54 of 61 �What do you recall of hearing of the war ending in Europe? YOSHIDA: Well, my aunt’s husband was drafted in the service, and he was already at a port of, what is it, debarkation? And the war ended, so he didn’t go overseas. And because he had a child, they gave him a discharge quite early. Ending of the war, I guess through the radio and Life magazine. Good old Life magazine. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned that you were getting that throughout the camp time. Were you subscribing to that prior? YOSHIDA: Mm hmm, prior to camp, just---every time we moved I sent in a change of address and had it---it kept coming. INTERVIEWER: Were you still in camp at the time that the bombings took place in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? YOSHIDA: I think so. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of hearing of that news, and what did it even mean to you? Did you understand what an atomic bomb even was or the impact? YOSHIDA: No, no, we just, through the pictures, realizing what a horror it was. INTERVIEWER: What pictures do you recall seeing? What images do you recall? YOSHIDA: Just the big mushrooms. I did go there, in fact, this year, for the first time. I had been to Nagasaki previously, but I was in Japan for three weeks and I did go there, and it was very emotional, yes. [24:00] INTERVIEWER: When did you actually leave camp? YOSHIDA: Probably end of August or early September in ’45. My father knew he had to get the kids in school---I was already at high school, but---so he got a job at the Northern Pacific Railroad, a suburb of Spokane. He first went out and came back, and he moved the whole family out there, and we lived in a converted railroad car. And it was a little town called Marshall, and I got a job in the town of Spokane as a domestic, a live-in domestic, and I did that from, I guess from around October until January or February, when we left Spokane. Because my father had told a friend who was leaving---who was working with him, who was coming back to Oakland, California, my father said, “I’d like to move my family to California. I’m not going to stay here This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 55 of 61 �forever.” And then the friend went back to Oakland, and his stepfather, who happened to know my parents, wrote and said, “Come to Oakland, because housing will be provided by the Oakland Methodist Church.” And so within a week, we were packed up and on our way by train to Oakland. And on the way to Oakland, we stopped off at Portland, Oregon, to change trains, and that was our first---that’s where my father took us to Chinese dinner. It was our first Chinese dinner in years. And I still remember, to this day, [26:00] he said, “We have time, let’s go eat.” And he took us---I don't know how he found it, but we went to a Chinese restaurant, had our first Chinese restaurant after the war, and took the train into Oakland. INTERVIEWER: At that time, the west coast being this area that everybody had been evacuated from, what response, if any, did you get from the general populace, this Japanese family walking through town? Or do you think they may have thought you were Chinese? YOSHIDA: I don’t know. I didn’t think anything of it at that time. INTERVIEWER: So nothing, no occurrences--YOSHIDA: No. INTERVIEWER: ---no issues. Okay. What was Oakland like for you? YOSHIDA: Well, starting from scratch, is there any old friends living here. And I got a job at Oakland Naval Supply Center as a clerk, and then I worked in a home part time to get my room and board until, you know, I thought I’ll do that until my family found a proper house, see. And long before, I don’t know how, but found out one of my best friends was living---or she was in Monterey. Her father was in the tofu business, and he wanted to start a tofu factory in Monterey, you know, which was near Fort Ord, where it was a big Army training camp. But somehow he wasn’t able to get clearance or get financial help or something like that. He quit the idea and came to live in Oakland. And so there was one of my oldest girlfriends right there, so she and I decided to go to the Buddhist temple and then make new friends, and then found some more hometown people. INTERVIEWER: And what was this first friend you relocated, what was her name? YOSHIDA: Michi, [28:00] M-I-C-H-I, Taira, T-A-I-R-A. And her present name is, what’s Michi’s---oh God, Hori, H-O-R-I. You often remember your friend’s maiden name. INTERVIEWER: And the adjustment for your parents, how’d that go? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 56 of 61 �Well, my mother got a job as a domestic right away, working for a dollar an hour. And my father got work with a gardener. So actually, they were able to find employment in no time. INTERVIEWER: Good. YOSHIDA: Housing was a big problem, trying to find housing, you know, postwar housing was difficult. INTERVIEWER: How’d that go? Where did you end up---the Methodist church was--YOSHIDA: So they had hostel-like, where people could stay until they found housing. INTERVIEWER: So it was a temporary measure. YOSHIDA: Measure, uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Where did you find housing? YOSHIDA: Well, in West Oakland. And it was upstairs of a person---the family was living downstairs and--Japanese had owned this big house, but they didn’t stay there very long, they found another house that was a single dwelling. INTERVIEWER: We’re going to take some bigger leaps in time and I’m going ask you how did you meet your husband, and what’s his name? YOSHIDA: Eiichi, E-I-I-C-H-I, Yoshida. INTERVIEWER: How did you meet? YOSHIDA: At the Buddhist temple, church. He and I were assigned to buy a new church organ. That was, I guess, [30:00] end of ’48 or early ’49. And we went to Sherman and Clay and bought an electric organ for the church on a payment plan. This was a project for the Young Buddhist Association group. And he started dating me. And he was in the flower business and, you know, a big---a big salesman. He always used to bring me flowers because he was in the flower business. And he won over my mother. And we lived next door to a dry cleaning shop, and this lady was a famous Japanese matchmaker, and she---soon as she saw him coming to my house, she was on the phone to his parents, “I think she’s a good catch.” [Laughs] But anyway, we were married in less than six months. And he was the owner of a wholesale potted plant business, but being right This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 57 of 61 �after the war, they were only in the business only two acres, and he had just purchased a 13acre piece in Hayward, California. This was in---the original nursery was in Oakland, that his parents had started. And so after we were married, I lived with the Yoshida family and had two children, my two older children, and we lived in one bedroom with two kids. Then my husband decided to---his avocation was building, he loved to build. And so he decided to build a house on his own. Almost we didn’t have anything. And so he just built the framework, and we had a lot of family controversies, I mean, that’s---he goes into a lot of detail, and we actually left the business family, because---and actually a minister at the church had to get involved and get us, get back into the business. [32:00] And the two brothers proceeded to build this nursery on a 15acre, and later on---you want me to keep talking? INTERVIEWER: Did they---let me just interject here. Now, did they split from their father’s business? YOSHIDA: No, he actually split from all his siblings, and then the minister had to make us come back. A lot of family---inter-family squabble, and let’s---I don’t want to bring it up. And they created this nursery, and my husband was the first to get into supermarket marketing. He was the first to put Easter lilies in supermarkets. And it all started because someone who had ordered a few thousand Easter lilies from him reneged on the order, and here he was stuck with few thousand lilies. So he had Vons grocery store of Los Angeles, our first supermarket customer, and he shipped them one semi load of Easter lilies, which was something unheard of in those days. And so that became one of the largest supermarket providers for potted plants for holidays, and we expanded later to 100 acres in southern---Salinas, California. INTERVIEWER: What was the name of the family business? YOSHIDA: Sunnyside Nurseries. INTERVIEWER: And prior to your meeting your husband, what was his life? Did he go to camp or--YOSHIDA: Yes, he was in Tule Lake. I don’t know, his father was---I don’t know what kind of family influence he had, but they---he had, but they stayed till it closed, or he was the first to get out. And then [34:00] a friend returned the family car and he made trips back to Tule Lake and brought home---the family back, piece by piece, because there were eight, and only one sister had gone to live in Buffalo, but the rest of the family was still in Tule Lake, so he brought them back a few at a time. INTERVIEWER: I just want to be clear now, the he you’re referring to is your husband? YOSHIDA: Yes. And they had a nursery on about two acres of land, but every glass in the greenhouse was broken when he returned, so he had to---he told his mother, “Give me all the money you have.” And one brother went out to work at another Italian nursery in San Francisco so the family could This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 58 of 61 �eat, and they used the family labor to get the business back by repairing the greenhouses and getting---raising short-term crop. And they got back on their foot. INTERVIEWER: Who in your husband’s family either---or let me ask, was there somebody in your husband’s family who served in the military? YOSHIDA: No, the second brother, after the war, was drafted, and he went to report for induction and they sent him home. And then the third brother, who was much younger than my husband, 12 years younger, he was drafted in the service and he was stationed in France. INTERVIEWER: This was postwar? YOSHIDA: Uh-huh, it was around---he got discharged about 1959. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And the reason---why was the other brother rejected? YOSHIDA: We don’t know. He doesn’t know to this day. He went in for induction and they said---they gave him a farewell party and everything, and then when he got there, says, “Go home.” So I don't know what they did [36:00] or what happened. INTERVIEWER: Okay. You mentioned two older children. What are your children’s names? YOSHIDA: Renny Grohl, G-R-O-H-L, and Vance. INTERVIEWER: And---two children, or any other? YOSHIDA: No, I have another one, Norman, who came eight years later. INTERVIEWER: And what do your children do? YOSHIDA: Renny just retired. She was a deputy general consul for Fanny Mae. Vance ran the nursery until we closed, and so he went through all the hardship of dealing with a union, Chavez’s union. They finally booted themselves out of the union, but by then we had almost gone broke. And he did all---he has his MBA from UCLA, but he’s on his second career now as a consultant for a nonprofit. And Norman and his wife have a catalogue business, they import Japanese paper. And she does wholesale and he does retail, and they’re in a little catalogue business, and he puts all his things on Google and things like that. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 59 of 61 �INTERVIEWER: And what’s his wife’s name? YOSHIDA: Kathy. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And Renny, what’s her husband’s name? YOSHIDA: What? INTERVIEWER: Your daughter, what’s her husband’s name? YOSHIDA: Oh, James Grohl. He was a White House correspondent. He was a journalist at one time. INTERVIEWER: Okay. YOSHIDA: But he’s retired, too. INTERVIEWER: And is Vance married? YOSHIDA: No. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How about grandchildren? YOSHIDA: We have two adopted grandchildren from Japan. So Norman, my youngest, at an older age has a 2-year-old and a 4 1/2-year-old, two boys from Japan. INTERVIEWER: Okay. How old are they? YOSHIDA: Two and four and a half. INTERVIEWER: Okay. [38:00] What do you hope that you’ve passed on to your children that your parents passed on to you? YOSHIDA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 60 of 61 �I think that family is very important, unity in the family. I believe in communicating with my children, and we are in constant touch. I believe that we should all support each other, and I try to instill that to my children. And I believe in, you know, sharing my blessings with other people, too. My son Vance is in the nonprofit, he has always complained that Asians, especially Japanese, do not give as much as other nationalities. And I don’t know if I can prove it or not, but I would encourage people to give. INTERVIEWER: What do you feel your generation, in particular the Niseis that served their country in the manner of military service, what do you feel they accomplished for that generation as well as generations to follow? YOSHIDA: I think it gave a great recognition that we exist as a [40:00] Nisei or a Sansei---because we were all classified as Asians, I think---and that we are, Japanese are, you know, are not, shouldn’t be all included, all lumped together, and that, I guess, they proved that they were Americans. Because even to this day, when I hear the national anthem, I tear up. It’s wonderful to be in this country. [Chokes up in tears] You know, the opportunity you have, it’s right there in front of you. Take advantage of it. You know, like my children, I told them we could afford it, so they could go to any school they want to, and after they’re out, they’re on their own. And I let them choose wherever they wanted to go. I guess that’s it. INTERVIEWER: I can’t think of a better place to end, so I’m going to say thank you very much. YOSHIDA: Thank you. I mean, it was an unexpected event, shall I say. INTERVIEWER: Well it was--YOSHIDA: Thank you. INTERVIEWER: ---very happy for us to run into you, and for you to agree to do this for us. Thank you. YOSHIDA: Yeah, I could have talked more about our business, but--- END OF AUDIO FILE 3 This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 61 of 61 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview, July 5, 2008 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview transcript [full interview], July 5, 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yoshida, Fusae: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 61 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-07-05 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2008OH0892_T_Yoshida https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/f41bc56cb19a32ececda173a6852efd2.pdf 0899d49c033fda29de50275c6f02e06e PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Nobuo Furuiye, September 24, 2000, Denver, Colorado INTERVIEWER: [0:00:00] We're here today at the Hotel Monaco in Denver, Colorado in September the 24th year 2000 and we are interviewing Nobuo Furuiye who is with the MIS during World War II. [0:00:15] On camera is Ruben Lim. On audio is Ken Shigamitsu. Cataloguing is Marie de Monteverde, and Karen Komatsu Vargus is interviewing you. [0:00:28] Hello Mr. Furuiye, thank you very much for being with us today. FURUIYE: [0:00:31] You're welcome. INTERVIEWER: [0:00:31] Can we start off with you giving us your full name and when you were born. FURUIYE: [0:00:37] My name is Nobuo Furuiye. I was born April 21st 1918 in Lafayette, Colorado. INTERVIEWER: [0:00:48] And your parents are... FURUIYE: [0:00:51] My parents are Father David Daiso Furuiye. My mother’s name Tamiye Furuiye. INTERVIEWER: [0:01:01] And how was it that your parents came to settle in a home in Colorado? FURUIYE: [0:01:03] Well, my father, my grandfather first migrated to Hawaii in the 1980s, I mean 1880s, and my father came over to Hawaii in 1900 when he was 17 years old. And then my father worked his way on a tramp steamer to San Francisco in 1903 and he told me that he worked around the fields in California and eventually he worked his way on the railroad and [0:01:42] working in the coal mines in Wyoming and then to work with the Union Pacific Railroad and then he got tired of that and he left and he started south in Colorado. Worked in the beet fields, [0:02:01] and eventually after working various jobs, and he had a friend from the village living here in Colorado. [0:02:10] So he looked him up and eventually settled down and started farming and so as a sharecropper and started farming and he did it all his life until he retired. And my mother was called over in 1911, I believe and she came over here like a picture bride in 1911 and my father went after her in Seattle. INTERVIEWER: [0:02:47] So did your mother come from Japan as a kid as well? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 1 �FURUIYE [0:02:50] Yeah, because I think he was someone my grandfather never knew and they sent her over here. INTERVIEWER: [0:02:57] And what part of Japan was she from? FURUIYE: [0:03:01] Momoto [inaudible] INTERVIEWER: [0:03:06] And your father is from the same... FURUIYE: [0:03:07] Yes yes yes. INTERVIEWER: [0:03:09] So they settled in Colorado and raised the family. Tell us a little bit about your brothers and sisters. FURIYE: [0:03:16] Well, my father started farming in [inaudible] Lafayette is about 25, 28 miles north of here in Denver. And he started farming as a sharecropper and my brother was born in 1913. My oldest brother 1913 and then my sister who passed away was born one year later. And then right after the war, my father during World War One he made a lot of money [0:03:55] farming, [0:03:56] so they went back to Japan and I was just a year old when they went back in 1919. And he left my brother and my older sister in Japan with my grandparents. I was the only one who came back with him because I was still a baby and my brother and sister were educated in Japan and later I had two brothers born here and another sister, but, unfortunately, all my sisters are deceased [0:04:37] now but I have all of the brothers living here now. INTERVIEWER: [0:04:45] When did your older brother and sister come back from Japan? FURIYE: [0:04:47] Oh they came. My older brother came back here in 1932 after he graduated from high school there and my sister came. My brother, my father went back in ‘33 to Japan to visit because his sister was dying- my aunt. And then he brought her back 1933. But my sister went back again and two years later because she was engaged to be married but unfortunately before she got married she caught [inaudible] and passed away in six months. So all of [0:05:27] my sisters were gone and my younger sister passed away from rheumatic fever right after she was married. So I don't have any sisters left. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 2 �INTERVIEWER: [0:05:40] What was it like to grow up in Colorado for you and your brother and your sisters here. FURUIYE: I don't think it was any significantly different. Of course, growing up [0:05:56] all of our friends in the neighborhood were Caucasians and we had quite a few Japanese families farming in the area. But they were, you know, a few miles away but we all went to school together. Bunch of us went to school together. But all my friends were Caucasian. [0:06:17] Most of my friends were caucasians, but I wouldn't know that it was any different with anybody else because we never felt any discrimination because all around us were Caucasian people and we grew up with the kids. INTERVIEWER: [0:06:39] What were some of your most memorable times when you were growing up here? The fun things that you did. FURUIYE: [0:06:46] I don’t know about the fun thing but I think the most fun thing was being able to go fishing, but I think that was our passion anyway. Go fishing. But like most Japanese families you know the kids in the summertime we helped in the fields I used to envy the kids they would go swimming. They would go you know while yet these kids mostly were helping their folks in the [inaudible] farming and then later on we had half a day Japanese school too. [0:07:24] And the school teachers were students that were studying here in Japan that were teachers you know. But I think most of us who went to play more than learn Japanese. INTERVIEWER: [0:07:38] So tell us about Japanese school. FURUIYE: [0:07:42] Well like I say I think it was more like playing baseball and go eat lunch- just have fun. But learning Japanese, I don't think it was just a secondary thing where we all just went to have fun. [0:07:58] I think we never took it too seriously. Although, we did eventually, you know, after a time some of us went to go soak in but we never took it very seriously. INTERVIEWER: [0:08:12] So you would go to your regular English standard school first? FURUIYE: Yeah yeah. [0:08:19] But Japanese school here in the country was just during the summer months because these teachers were college students from Japan. They were the ones who were teaching us Japanese. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 3 �[0:08:35] Did you get to use your Japanese at home with your parents? FURUIYE [0:08:38] Well that was mostly get used to our parents because when I was in first grade I never knew hardly any English because we all spoke only Japanese. [0:08:49] And it was all colloquial, you know. So actually I had a hard time when I was in my first grade. I couldn't even ask if when I wanted to go to the restroom. I didn't know how to ask even. It was very embarrassing but eventually you know if you have to learn English you'll learn it. INTERVIEWER: [0:09:17] So your brothers also your sister who had to go to school here had to deal with the same things? FURUIYE: Oh yes. Yes. Well yeah. INTERVIEWER: Were there other children in the schools that had to you said you went to school mainly with Caucasians or you grew up with Caucasians. Were there other children in similar situations? FURUIYE [0:09:34] There were three or four other Japanese families and there must have been about 15 or 20 Japanese in elementary school, the country school house, you know we call it the country. It was a red brick school house, which went from first to eighth grade. [0:09:55] Yeah. It was fun. INTERVIEWER: [0:10:02] You mentioned having to work on the farm as a child. What was that like? FURUIYE: [0:10:07] That was very hard. You didn't want to do it but I look back on it now. It was an experience, you know. [0:10:17] I think what would you say if closer family tie or whatever. But I think it was a good experience that you learn how to work you know how to. And I grew up in the harsh depression time and I remember we didn't have too much to eat. We didn't think we were poor. Nobody else had were in the same boat. We didn't think we were any worse or any better off. INTERVIEWER: [0:10:48] So what were some of your chores, like what were you responsible for in the farm? FURUIYE: [0:10:53] Well we will not only work out in the field but my chore first thing was to get up and feed the chickens on the farm and see that the dairy cow was fed and milked during the morning and evening. My brother’s job was to cook, gather the eggs. [0:11:15] My job was still to take care of the cows and the horses and see that they were fed and cleaned the barns kept clean This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 4 �and always used to think of what a job you know. [0:11:33] But eventually I grew up and I joined the Four H club. So I would enjoy it and appreciate what I had. And I think therefore for each club with one of the best experience I ever had. INTERVIEWER: [0:11:47] What was your specialty in the Four H club? FURUIYE: [0:11:50] It was steer raising a steer and showing them at the county fair. INTERVIEWER: [0:11:59] Any prizes? FURUIYE: No not really. I came in third. I think one time I was real proud to come in third. Yes. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [0:12:08] So you did all of your chores on the farm before you went to school? FURUIYE: [0:12:12] Yeah. And then have to come home from school. Yes. INTERVIEWER: And did your homework. And more chores? FURUIYE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [0:12:22] Were there any other things that you were involved in at school? FURUIYE: [0:12:25] No not through an elementary school. No. I played little baseball and we used to play with other schools in grade school and it was fun. They would have a baseball game during the spring and on a Friday afternoon INTERVIEWER: And after elementary school it was... FURUIYE: [0:12:54] Yes. 00:12:55 Oh! You went to until eighth grade in the same school, you said. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 5 �FURUIYE: Yeah, and then eventually they had a ninth grade. Eventually they put in a ninth grade before I graduated. [0:13:08] And so they put in a ninth grade in that country school. And that's why I went. INTERVIEWER: And after that? FURUIYE: I came to high school here in Denver and stayed at the old Buddhist temple and there was a bunch of other Nisei boys from the country staying there. [0:13:31] We boarded there and went to high school and after school we came back and had Japanese classes two hours every day five days a week after high school and that was really tough because after high school you have this homework but you still had two hours of the Japanese language school which was a really accelerated course and it was tough. [0:14:04] It was really rough tough learning but the teacher is very good. And they were very strict. But I learned a lot of these from these teachers at the temple for three years in the accelerated course. INTERVIEWER: [0:14:21] So it wasn't like you're fun Japanese school... FURUIYE: No it was not, you know, you're a little older and you take responsibility. [0:14:29] And after that we would have to study our high school work. And it was a fun thing at the temple. There'd be a bunch of us and so and so on and so so would do the cooking tonight and so-and-so would do it Tuesday night so-and-so would do it when we had our turn. The only time that we didn't have Japanese school was on the weekend. INTERVIEWER: [0:14:56] So what was that like to be away from your parents at that age? FURUIYE: [0:15:01] It wasn't too bad because it wasn't too far away. Of course some of them came here from Sambo's Valley which is almost 200 miles away. But like us we want to go home you know we only had about 30 miles to go. [0:15:19] But we very seldom went home because it wouldn't have done much good anyway because we were just about through with the crops anyway around the fall. INTERVIEWER: [0:15:39] Did you have Buddhist monks, or... FURUIYE: [0:15:42] No it was [0:15:43] the teachers that were going to university and we had couple of there were going to Denver University, one of them going to the Colorado School of Mines. They were students here from Japan studying English and they're very strict. [0:16:12] And one This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 6 �of them was the tendo(inaudible)- a second degree tendo. So he wanted to do tendo on the weekend so we had to take tendo Saturday nights on top of that. And I think I hated that more than school. INTERVIEWER: [0:16:32] So that must have been difficult to live with the teachers that you are... FURUIYE: [0:16:36] Yeah right. Right. Because they were right there at the temple. So they were more like supervisors and you didn't go fooling around go sneaking off to movies or anything. The only time that was done was on Sunday. INTERVIEWER: That’s tough. FURUIYE: Well it was good training. INTERVIEWER: [0:17:03] So when high school was over what happened next? FURUIYE: High school was over. [0:17:08] I graduated in the winter. I went to summer school so I could graduate in the winter because my father asked me if I wanted to, and [0:17:16] I said I'd like to go and study a little bit so I went to summer school in order to be able to graduate in the winter. So I'd be one semester quicker. [0:17:30] So I graduated in January 1936 and went back to Japan in February because the school starts there in April so I went back there in ‘36 and went back to Kumamoto where my folks and relatives live. [0:17:50] So I went back there. Thanks to the accelerated teaching in Japanese at the Temple I took an examination and was able to get a higher grade enough to get into the fourth grade. Japan high school has five years one two three four and five. [0:18:12] I was able to get into the fourth grade because I didn't have to study English where the Japanese students were spending 75 percent of time studying English. But I was a little behind on science and math. So, with the Japanese student, I exchanged I helped him with English and they helped me with science and math and it worked out fairly well until I got caught up. [0:18:45] I went to high school that was sponsored by the American missionary with the Lutheran church. So it was not quite as strict as ordinary governmentrunned Japanese school. But still they had to stick with the curriculum, the educational [curriculum]. So it was still pretty tough. INTERVIEWER: [0:19:14] What was it like when you first went back to Japan because you left when you were a year old so you don't remember anything. FURUIYE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 7 �[0:19:20] It was kind of a culture shock more than anything you know. And my relatives tried tomy aunt tried to- make me feel at ease but it's still a culture shock. [0:19:34] But my dad's cousin was the principal at an elementary school there and so he kind of understood more and he took me under his wing and he was my guardian or sponsor or whatever you might want to call him. So he got me into the school and everything he saw to it that I got on the right track. [0:20:01] So it was not too bad. INTERVIEWER: [0:20:03] What were the things that really stood out for you the most when you went to Japan after high school? FURUIYE: [0:20:10] Well at the time you see Japan had just invaded Manchura in Northern China. So in 1937 it got really hot. You know for us Nisei we had told a lie and we didn't dare say anything because- you know what the kempeitai is. They knew who we were and they kept an eye on everybody. So we just kept a low profile and didn't dare step out of line. So [inaudible] city is known for military, it must have been a fine military division because it’s head of the [0:20:51] six division headquarters, and [inaudible] city is known for, [0:20:57] like I said, its military and different types of schools. INTERVIEWER: [0:21:03] Can you explain what the kempeitai is? FURUIYE: [0:21:06] Well, it's not like our MP but it's like SS troops in German SS. It's almost like that they're like a secret service but they're under military- they're military men- but they're like the government intelligence officer. In Russia, it’s the KGB, it's that tight. They're really ruthless and very thorough in their investigations. They [0:21:51] keep a watch on everybody not only us but anybody that steps out of line. INTERVIEWER: [0:21:57] So everyone in the town is aware that you're an American. FURUIYE Yes. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Were you treated any differently? FURUIYE: [0:22:05] No. I think the students all accept this. The teachers all accept this and everything. I think the only one, you know in those days in high school you were required to take like our [inaudible] here it's twice a week [0:22:25] and we had a regular army officer come and train us for two hours twice a week. I think I dreaded that the most just because it was required and you trained This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 8 �just like a regular army. INTERVIEWER: [0:22:47] Can you give us some examples of what you had to do in that? FURUIYE: [0:22:51] Well we had to drill just like the regular army. We had to march and then every three or four months we have to go on a forced march, about a 25 mile march over the weekend and we would march [0:23:10] day and night. I remember coming back with blisters but it was required because you know in those days it was getting to be military. Everything was military. INTERVIEWER: [0:23:26] Were you treated in a certain way by your instructor because you were an American? FURUIYE: [0:23:31] No not singled out, but he kept a pretty good eye on us and we would try to just keep a low profile and don't try to. [0:23:42] And we had one good instructor friend of ours, a judo instructor, his name was Dito, he used to take us under his wings and he used to invite us to his place. He had lived on the West Coast some time and he knew the Niseis and he was such a big man. He was a big guy for a Japanese man to be six foot, you know. That was a pretty good size. [0:24:13] He was husky, he must have weighed a good 200 pounds but he was a judo Sensei you know. He was the seventh degree black belt and he was such a gentleman and he took us under his wing and he understood and he stood up for us on a lot of occasions. INTERVIEWER: [0:24:33] So when you say ‘we’ you were there and what other Americans were you with? FURUIYE: [0:24:36] Well there was, I still keep in touch with one of them was from San Jose. I still keep in touch. We've been friends for now almost 60 years. [0:24:48] And there was another man who was in with us. He was a MIS man. He stayed with them. California to there from San Jose. And Colonel Sakamoto I don't know if you know him Thomas Sakamoto. You know, he was the head of the San Francisco Museum- President a couple of years ago. Well he was a classmate of mine, ours. And I have another friend there that lives in L.A. That was one class [0:25:32] lower. INTERVIEWER: [0:25:34] So there were a number of you so that must have made it… FURUIYE: Yeah, there were a number of Nisei at that class, at that school. INTERVIEWER: [0:25:39] So it was not uncommon to have that happen? FURUIYE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 9 �No no no, [0:25:42] because we had used to having teachers there because it was run by the missionaries. They were Lutheran missionary teachers you know. END OF TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO INTERVIEWER: [00:00:02] Mr. Furuiye, tell us about when you graduated. [Off camera comment] Hold on a second. Zooming in on your face. [00:00:13] So you went to Japanese high school for a couple of years and then you graduated. FURUIYE: Yes. INTERVIEWER: You graduated in 1938. [00:00:24] Right. So what happened after that? FURUIYE: [00:00:27] Well I didn't realize that I had dual citizenship until I went to Japan. I found out then I had dual. [00:00:35] So right after I graduated I knew I would be of draft age. So right after graduation I left and returned in May. Because my birthday was in April so that was my draft age right. Draft age you see 20 years old unless you were going to college there, but I didn't want to take a chance. And so I returned immediately in May of ‘38 and came back home to Colorado. INTERVIEWER: [00:01:17] And what was that like, coming back home to Colorado after being away for a couple of years? FURUIYE: [00:01:22] Well I felt like it was nice to get back [00:01:24] because you know living in such a restricted society where [inaudible] in those days Japan was very poor and very inconvenient. They didn't have the modern transportation system or anything that you have today. So [every time] you went somewhere we took a bus or we took the trolley and food was scarce and it was actually a very poor nation. So the convenience of things, you know, we just knew. [00:02:04] So it was nice to get home. INTERVIEWER: [00:02:07] What did you do when you got back to Colorado? FURUIYE: What's that? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 10 �INTERVIEWER: What did you do when you got back to Colorado? FURUIYE: [00:02:12] Well after I came back and then my friend from San Jose said well if you want to work, so I went out there and I stayed at his place and I worked in the Santa Clara Valley there for almost a year, not quite a year, I guess. And working the field orchards and did work on the farm. And then I eventually came back again after in the summer following summer came back and I help the folks on the farm. INTERVIEWER: [00:02:58] So you did that for... FURUIYE: [00:03:00] Yeah, I did that. And then in the winter time, because we couldn't work on the farm, I came into town and worked for this lady that at this Japanese mercantile store you know. I worked for her during the winter months from, oh say, around October until the spring planting time and I worked in the store and ran errands for the place and did deliveries and whatever needed to be done. INTERVIEWER: [00:03:41] And by this time what year was it? FURUIYE: [00:03:44] This is in ‘39/’40. I'd say it was ‘40 and ‘41, yeah ‘40s end of ‘30s. I started in ‘39 winter. I mean ‘40 because in ‘39 I was in California then. So it was in the winter of ‘40 up to the spring then ‘41 and I still work before when the war broke out. INTERVIEWER: [00:04:16] Can you remember what you were doing on December the 7th 1941? FURUIYE: [00:04:20] Yeah, that particular day this lady and I went to my folks’ place and we were having lunch when [inaudible] we had heard that we were visiting and we heard that Pearl Harbor got bomb and we couldn't believe it. So she said, well let's hurry back before probably somebody might vandalize the store. So we rushed back but nothing was nothing had happened. But it's amazing that [inaudible]. But on the window it said Nippon mercantile. [00:05:05] So I told her I think we better scratch that Nippon off. So that's what the first thing we did was take that anything pertaining to the Japanese name [00:05:14] we eliminated. INTERVIEWER: [00:05:19] And as it became more known on that day what had happened at Pearl Harbor did the people in town start reacting differently? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 11 �FURUIYE: No, not particular [00:05:29] that I remember because I was with her until past Christmas but nothing in particular happened. Everything seemed to be normal. But of course we tried to restrict our movements to and just went around as if nothing had happened. The neighbor was a Jewish fellow but a store but he was everything was normal. It was sane. INTERVIEWER: [00:06:04] So in the weeks and months following the bombing of Pearl Harbor, how did your life change or... FURUIYE: [00:06:13] Well I told her I said you know I had been deferred because I was on a farm but I knew that. So I said well I couldn't [inaudible] myself. So I went and tried to volunteer in Boulder County. That's where our home was in Boulder County and but they said we've got too many but we can't take you but we can take it in the first draft in January. So that's what happened in January. So I I reported on January 16th the following ‘42 and that was the day I got inducted. INTERVIEWER: [00:06:51] And you had gone to volunteer for the army here. FURUIYE: [00:06:55] Yeah. Inducted here. Fort Nolan in Denver here. INTERVIEWER: [00:07:02] What did your parents and your other family members say when you told them that you had volunteered? FURUIYE: [00:07:09] Well they said, if you want to do it that's up to you, he said. They didn't try to stop me or anything so I was fine. “If that’s what you want to do,” he says. Because one of my brothers would be home. So he said fine. INTERVIEWER: [00:07:22] Did your parents or your family's life change any after the bombing of Pearl Harbor? FURUIYE: [00:07:31] Not to my day. You know the neighbors were very understanding and they were very good. Cause I remember when we had to turn in all our cameras and any guns we had because we had rifles and shotguns on the farm there and my dad and I collected from our neighbors and we took it to the courthouse to the jail in there. And fortunately the sheriff of the county was a good friend of Dad because he used to come out to farm to find produce, and he says, “I don't need this stuff,” he said. [Inaudible] [00:08:10] just put it in that corner cell and lock’em up. And he said, I know you folks long enough, said, you're not going to do anything but the government wanted done, we're going to have to do it. So he resigned to the fact that he had to do what he This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 12 �had to do. [00:08:32] So he was very understanding. INTERVIEWER: How did your parents feel? FURUIYE: [00:08:38] Well, they thought- they used to say, boy, Japan did a dumb thing. The first thing that they said. In Japanese they said, [inaudible]. They said. You know, but they resigned themselves. Fortunately our neighbors all the [inaudible] neighbors were so good to us. It's amazing. You know even while during the war nothing had changed. INTERVIEWER: [00:09:08] What was running- you said that you immediately thought we needed- that you needed to go back to the store to take care of business. [00:09:15] But other than that what were you thinking and feeling when you... FURUIYE: I thought maybe they would have caused this or something but it never happened, never happened. So of course we didn't try to go out in the public and try to see if something would happen. We just tried to be calm and went around and did her own business and never tried to force ourselves on anyone. INTERVIEWER: [00:09:45] In a way just having just left Japan a couple of years prior to that you sort of had some inkling. FURUIYE: [00:09:51] Yeah, I thought- but I never thought they would attack America. I knew- I thought they would go into China and Southeast Asia but I never even in my mind thought they would try to attack America. INTERVIEWER: [00:10:10] So now you have been inducted into the army and...tell us about your basic training. FURUIYE: [00:10:16] Well first I went to camp Roberts California. I was in the artillery. I had about four and a half, five weeks basic training and you know they had all the need- after the executive order, you know, they- all the Nisei soldiers were ordered inland. So I ended up in Camp Robinson Arkansas. And our whole troop train went from the Camp Roberts and Camp [inaudible] and [00:10:56] there were other camps there nearby. And we ended up at Camp Robinson and those that had basic training finished they didn't have to but they didn't know what they all put them into motor pool or garbage collecting or whatever. And headquarters. But nothing where they need to take up arms and we got through with our basic training. The rest of our Caucasian soldiers, they were all shipped out. But we were stayed there we were put into the quartermaster in a motor [00:11:36] pool, bakery, whatever, garbage detail, Permanent K.P.. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 13 �And you know they didn't know what to do with us. But I was a luckier ones. I ended up in quartermaster and ended up driving the quartermaster commandant. All my duty was to pick him up at his officers quarters, take him to breakfast, and then I'd go to breakfast, and I get to go pick him up, bring him to the office and I'd sit there and wait until he was ready to go to lunch. And [00:12:17] that was my duty just taking care of him. And so I got away from KP or guard duty. So I always wanted to move on and assist. So I said boy this how did I get this job. I was I felt very fortunate. And he was real good commandant. INTERVIEWER: [00:12:37] Can I ask you to tell us a little bit about what you had to do in basic training and what that was like for you? FURUIYE: [00:12:45] Well basic training. I don't think it was just marching and hiking and learning the manual of arms, your weapons and so forth so. At times I thought it was kind of rough. But then I figured it was nothing what I went through in Japan. Even in high school I thought this is simple but so I never told too much I didn't think it was that bad. [00:13:16] The regimentation I figured well this is nothing compared to Japan. INTERVIEWER: So you were at an advantage? You were prepared? FURUIYE: I don’t know about advantage, but I just took it in stride. I think this is nothing compared to Japan. INTERVIEWER: [00:13:33] So you were assigned to the quartermaster at Camp Robinson and how long did you do that? FURUIYE: [00:13:39] Well after my basic so I’m thinking it was about four months I guess until we got interviewed for the MIS school they came down and interviewed us. INTERVIEWER: [00:13:51] How did you find out about the MIS school? FURUIYE: [00:13:53] I didn't. They came looking for us. So they interviewed me. I said no. I said I got a plush job I don't want I didn't need to go. But I was on the first group to go and I went there. I remember how cold it was because we arrived at Camp Savage on Thanksgiving Day and we got off about half a mile from. [00:14:22] I can't even remember the name of the place, Shakopee, or something? I forget. But anyway I had to march about a half mile from camp and it was 20-something below. And I never felt so cold. You know we were in Arkansas it was never This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 14 �that cold and we never had a full winter uniform. And we froze I think before we got there. [00:14:47] But I remember it was Thanksgiving because soon as we got there we had our Thanksgiving dinner. INTERVIEWER: When they interviewed you for the MIS, did you have to take a test at all? FURUIYE: [00:14:59] No they wanted to know my background and they knew my background already because when you fill out your personnel file, you know, they want to know where you are, how much education, where you had your education. So they knew I had to a Japanese background so consequently I was in the first group to go there. INTERVIEWER: [00:15:23] So it was freezing when you got to Camp Savage and then you go to the actual camp and what was that like? FURUIYE: [00:15:30] Well, it was very- I didn't realize that there was so competitive it was just like going to school and you know how they say they want to compete, they want to be better than the other guy. They said, oh no I am not. But you could see them at night after the lights are out in the latrine studying. That shows you how much the Nisei, you know, they didn't want to lose, you know. They didn't want to be, they want to be competitive. And it was [00:16:10] tough but a lot of that Japanese came back to me. But then the Japanese at the Savage, you know, it's a little bit different from the regular Japanese language [00:16:22] because it was a lot of military terms, military language, but maybe like us a few of us that have a Japanese background had an advantage you know. But I could not understand why they even selected some of the fellas that never spoke a bit of Japanese who were there for language school. But later on I guess when they made teams up I could see their plan because here with a strong man with a Japanese background would team him up with a fella that didn't know Japanese [00:17:03] but very good in English. They teamed the two together and they could translate. Make, make it work. INTERVIEWER: [00:17:13] What were your instructors like? FURUIYE: [00:17:15] Very good. Very good. One instructor in particular he very good. I had a very good. He was like our, well, more like our main instructor was from Seattle. He was an electrical engineer by profession but he had a very he was a college graduate from Japan. So he's very good English and very good Japanese so very very proficient and a good instructor. Good instructor. INTERVIEWER: [00:18:00] What were your study habits like? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 15 �FURUIYE: [00:18:03] Well I had a desk mate. There were two to a desk. He was from Seattle and Kaiegete[inaudible] [00:18:14] we used to compete with each other and he he had graduated from high school in Japan too. He and I would compete with each other. [00:18:27] Sometimes I would beat him and he would get so mad I would get a better score. He would get so mad, upset but it was all in fun. And he said, “Well then I'll beat so you owe me a dinner if we go in town.” So it was fun. And if I lost well I'd buy him a dinner next time we go on leave. So it was fun. INTERVIEWER: [00:18:51] How long were you in language school, Camp Savage? FURUIYE: [00:18:55] Well from the end of November to the end of May. When I graduated from May INTERVIEWER: Did you have any idea at the time when you were language school what your purpose was going to be or what your function was going to be in the war effort? FURUIYE: [00:19:14] Not really, but we knew that we would be translating documents and in all probability, but we never expected Japanese to be taken prisoner so we never- I never really think too much that we'd had too many prisoners. What with probably more translation and interpreting and so forth but not interrogation too much. INTERVIEWER: [00:19:45] Where was your family at this time while you were in the language school? FURUIYE: [00:19:49] Well they were home here in Colorado. They're still farming. Normal. INTERVIEWER: [00:19:53] Your family was not affected directly by the internment because they were in Colorado. FURUIYE: Yeah. Yeah. No INTERVIEWER: [00:20:03] So when you completed your MIS language school studies, what happened next for you? FURUIYE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 16 �[00:20:08] Well the following month I got orders to go to the Alaskan defense. So we were shipped out to Alaska. We went by way of Seattle [inaudible] and then we got on a plane, the old Sea 47, which is something similar to Douglas DC 10, DC 10, no DC 3 I believe. And we were going and that's where all of the military and it was converted into a military plane with the buckets steel bucket seats. And we're [00:20:51] going in this terrible storm and commented that, boy if this thing don't fall nothing. He says, you're flying the safest plane in the world. [00:21:02] But that was the first time I ever got on a plane and we landed at Fort Richardson in Alaska. INTERVIEWER: [00:21:14] What was going through your mind on that plane? FURUIYE: [00:21:18] Well I figured, well if I die I won’t be alone. Anyway, it was quite an experience. But the Air Force people said, don't worry this plane it would have been a lot worse than this before this plane will go down. INTERVIEWER: [00:21:34] Did you know from the very beginning that you were heading to Alaska? FURUIYE: Oh yeah. We had our orders from Savvey that we were going to Alaska. INTERVIEWER: So you arrive in Alaska, and what do you think? FURUIYE: [00:21:48] Well this is in summer. So we went to got our assigned bearings, and you can't sleep because it's daylight. Here it is 11:45 almost midnight in this light yet in person it’ll get a little bit gray about midnight. A few minutes after midnight the sun is coming up and you're sleepy, you can’t hardly sleep. [00:22:10] And when you're finally tired, you sleep from getting so tired. But in the winter it’s just the opposite, you know, but you get acclimated to anything you pretty soon you get acclimated to it. INTERVIEWER: [00:22:28] So what were you attached to in Alaska? FURUIYE: [00:22:31] Well since I got there we were all shipped out to A-DAC, which was the headquarters. And then we were assigned to different units and we were- our operation was to attack Kiska, where the Japanese had a stronghold. [00:22:55] Of course this was after we had two was already captured and I met some of the other Nisei. But I was sent to the Canadian Force who was a joint operation with the Canadians to retake Kiska Island on the illusions. And it was the Canadian grandeurs or the Canadian artillery and we attacked Kiska and this is in the This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 17 �middle of summer in August and we find- [00:23:40] we eventually find that there is nobody there. But in that fog and confusion our unit, [00:23:50] we lost 17 men because everybody was trigger happy in that fog. I understand 300 feet later- I understand 300 servicemen were killed on Kiska. Here, there was not enemy fire. It was friendly fire and trigger happy in the fog. And all the Japanese garrison, almost 6000, slipped up in the middle of the night under the heavy fog. And the Navy blockade never even knew they had left. [00:24:27] And you know, I met a Mr. Kaskave who was on the island. [00:24:38] He was a Nisei born in Idaho but lived in Nahola, and he was drafted in the Japanese army. [00:24:48] He was on Kiska. I found that out later from a friend of mine, Sylvia Kobiashi, in Alaska. So she said she found out about him being on Kiska. So she said that San Francisco [inaudible] reunions and I'm going to see if I can have him come down and he came down and that's the first time I met him and I asked him how did you people get out. [00:25:20] He said we knew all the Navy ships were going to go refuel at Dutch Harbor Alaska. So as soon as they left, they had 13 ships off the shore and they radioed them to come in and they moved out all nearly 6000 of the garrison, all those ships in the middle of night under heavy fog and nobody knew the difference. And he said they took them all home to Hokkaido, raced back to Hokkaido. But you know when we landed and we looked up, here was table food [00:26:00] half eaten and they took everything there. All there- they left a lot of things. The only thing they took was their personal things and small arms, but all that big cannon and everything all of that and food that they left behind we found food after barrels of shoyu, sacks of rice and miso and all this in a cave and it was in there. [00:26:34] They were going to blow it up and, we, the Nisei, we told ‘em, why don't you send them back to the camps in America, my god, you got tons of food and shoyu. So I think that's what they did because they never blew ‘em up because we told him send them back to the camps, you know. So probably they did. But it's amazing. So, this is how I found out that Mr. Kaskave that that's what happened. It's amazing, you know, how you meet up with him and he still spoke perfect English. He went [00:27:15] back to Japan when he was 12 years old, he said, he hadn't forgotten it. INTERVIEWER: [00:27:20] That's great for you to have some closure [inaudible]. FURUIYE: Right, right, right. Yeah. END OF TAPE TWO BEGINNING OF TAPE THREE INTERVIEWER: [00:00:02] Mr. Furuiye, what was it like to be attached to the Canadian Grenadines. FURUIYE: [00:00:12] Well, I don't think it was any different, except [00:00:17] I kind of was kinda uncomfortable in their uniform because, you see, like our uniform it's all of it is wool. It's fine This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 18 �wool and it's a lot more covered, but this Canadian uniform they gave me was so rough and itchy and I thought, oh, how can you guys stand this thing, you know, because underneath I've got underwear on but around my neck you know it just would drive me [00:00:56] crazy. So I put a handkerchief around my collar, so, you know. But it was real heavy. It kept me warm but it was very uncomfortable. But the fellows that really accepted me and oh we just had a great time together. So it was no different from any American folk, you know. INTERVIEWER: [00:01:21] And how long were you attached to the Canadians? FURUIYE: Right as soon as we found out that the Kiska was secured because there were no fighting. [00:01:30] They released me and I came back to my own unit, MIS unit there. INTERVIEWER: [00:01:36] So you were sort of unknown to the Canadians because of your... FURUIYE: Yeah, because they didn't have an interpreter. [00:01:40] Right. INTERVIEWER: [00:01:42] So then you were sent back to your unit in Alaska? FURUIYE: [00:01:48] Yeah. Right. Yes. On our headquarters in A-DAC. And then later from there we received our orders for some place some fellows went to other places to scour if there was any other Japanese units or equipment left behind, you know, like Shemya and others, you know. [00:02:24] But one of my assignment was to- there was about five of us sent to Seward, Alaska and we were flown back to Fort Richardson. From there, we took a train, the Alaskan Railway, clear down to Seward. And I said, why are we going down there for, and then found out that we were- had to take an inventory [00:02:55] of a former citizen there, Mr. Kawabe, who was the practically owned the city of Seward. He owned the lumber mill. He owned the fish cannery. He owned the mercantile store, the dry goods store. The fact that he practically owned the city and we inventoried everything he had and we found out all these magazines. He was picked up and sent to the concentration camp in Santa Fe, New [00:03:35] Mexico because he was a Japanese there, and they figured [inaudible]. We looked through his bank account, and can you imagine those days he was worth three million dollars. And but he was real. And we also found that he had already bought $100,000 worth of war bonds and he had sent numerous young people men and women to college, he paid for their tuition, [00:04:12] paid for their entire education, and they had come back and many of them not came back to Alaska, but other places. And they petition to let him out and come home because they said he's like our second father, we would never have gotten an education without him. But the government just ignored it and to this day I don't know whatever happened to his because his assets were all confiscated and frozen. But this man must have been quite a businessman because when he was released This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 19 �later he went back to Alaska [00:04:52] but he could not because the gunman had just taken everything away from him. So he resettled in Seattle but we didn't know but he had an adopted son. I don't know where he was during the war but somebody told me he was in a relocation center, but I don't know for sure. But you know he rebuilt his business in Seattle and became a very wealthy man again. When he died [00:05:21] he left his property to the Japanese community. So he must have been a very shrewd businessman. But can you imagine that much? So we were inventory and we were surprised that there was a Japanese like that. But we had no idea. Could not find out whether his wife died or was in Japan. Could not find any records or letters. So then we just presumed that he had died. She had died. So [00:06:02] after that I came back to A-DAC again after and we turned it over to the intelligence people and came back and we stayed there and we translated a few documents but there were not none of that was very important anymore. And I stayed there until January of ‘44 and was sent back home. We rotated back home and there's only a few that stayed there more. I didn't know that anybody stayed there until later [00:06:46] in ‘97 when I went back in a conference or video review to Anchorage that there was a friend of ours that stayed there the entire war. I said, “What were you doing here by yourself?” He said, “well it was lonely but I kept myself busy.” Didn't never tell me what he did. I said, “what could an MIS guy do here? There's nothing here.” He said, “Oh I kept myself busy and headquarters, and this and that, communications.” [00:07:26] And to me I never knew anybody. I thought everybody left, but he was very intelligent. So I came back into February. I mean January. [00:07:41] And so, they said, “Well you're not- won’t go probably go overseas again for a year,” and dumb me I believe the army. So I was engaged to be married so we got married in February. [00:07:58] I brought my wife out of Camp Jerome Arkansas and brought her home to Denver and we got married here. And then I got married, took her back, and I went back there. In that time they had transferred the headquarters to Fort Snelling. [00:08:16] He said, “You're leaving?” I said, “I thought we were going to be here.” He said, “No no, I got a good deal for you. You are now a team leader so you're going home. This a good deal.” He said, “what was that promise about one year?” he says. He didn't believe the army. So that's how it came. [00:08:35] Of course we left at the end of April and landed in Hawaii, Honolulu, the first part of May. INTERVIEWER: [00:08:50] Before we move onto Hawaii, let me ask you a little bit about your wife because you said that you had to go and get her from Camp Jerome. So, you met her when you were in San Jose? How did you meet her? FURUIYE: [00:08:59] No. I met her coming back from Japan in 1938. [00:09:05] And her and her mother, you know, she came from the same area in Kumamoto so that we got to be friends and that's how I got to know her. And then I visited a few times and her brother, family and everything. So later on then I said, Well- I asked her marry me and she said she wouldn't. And the war broke out. So she was sent to Jerome, Arkansas, but Jerome was later closed, you know, about a year later because they needed that camp for prisoner war camp for [00:09:44] the Germans. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 20 �[00:09:45] And so she had a choice to come into Amache at Colorado where she took Gila River because the relatives were there. INTERVIEWER: Was your wife a Japanese citizen that came to live in America after? Or she was also like you, more like a Nisei born here? FURUIYE: [00:10:03] No, no. She was born in Santa Barbara. [00:10:08] Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What's your wife's name? FURUIYE: Toshiye. INTERVIEWER: And her maiden name? Last name? FURUIYE: Suminaga INTERVIEWER: [00:10:17] Was it difficult for you? What were you thinking when you had to go and get her from the camp to be married and then drop her back off at camp? FURUIYE: [00:10:26] Well I thought maybe we could- you know, drop her off at camp because I had no place for her at Snelling yet because I had made no arrangements and I thought well eventually if I when I get back get a permanent station I could recall her. [00:10:44] But instead that I'm sent overseas. INTERVIEWER: So the newlywed had to be shipped off to Hawaii? FURUIYE: Yeah right. INTERVIEWER: So what was Hawaii like for you? FURUIYE: [00:10:57] Well I've been there a couple of times before and I had friends there so it was not a first time. And I remember the exact date it was May the 10th because it was my friend's birthday. As soon as I got off I called her and I knew the family, my family knew them. And that's This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 21 �how I remember the day, May the 10th, that was her birthday. And she calmed me down when I got there. INTERVIEWER: What did you do in Hawaii? FURUIYE: Well we opened up. There was three teams. I was one of them. Team Leader. 30 of us. [00:11:37] Cause one team is 10 men, a team leader. When we opened this office on Coppolani Boulevard and the reason for that was they did not allow Niseis inside of Pearl Harbor. [00:11:58] So of course it was a blessing. A blessing in disguise for us because there it was a ‘we could come and go as we please’ without any restrictions. They had taken over a furniture showroom warehouse so we had plenty. We had our living quarters downstairs and our office upstairs. Of course we had no kitchen facilities or mezzo. So we were paid a per diem for the whole month. [00:12:36] And there was a restaurant right directly across the street run by [inaudible] very friendly gentlemen. And he used to welcome us and we used to go there and eat every day, morning, lunch, supper. But you know the funny thing is there was a bunch of Hawaiian boys in our group. [00:13:03] They were going home to sleep in those that live in Honolulu. They were going home to sleep and getting combat pay. You know you get [inaudible] because Hawaii was a combat area and here they're going home and I say, “oh how ironic. You guys go home and sleep and get 10 percent extra.” And we sorta joke about it, but being in Hawaii was really- it was very good because the people in Hawaii welcome us in their home. We used to go invited to dinner for different places. [00:13:39] And if we wanted that I never forget we go to showdown on Waikiki. There used to be a movie theater and catch a bus and these Hawaiian fellas would be bus drivers and he would pick us up no matter where we were. And he would see these Hawaiian sailors on a bench and say, “sorry fool.” And he so funny. He said, “I take care of you boys first.” He said, “Hawaiians get in the way.” But I don't know. But we were treated so royal in Hawaii and [00:14:20] we enjoyed it. The only- I think a stinger in the side is we were because this [inaudible] joint intelligence center Pacific Ocean area was a naval operation and the Navy had all jurisdiction. I mean the jurisdiction or the administration and everything. So we were attached to the Navy. So we received our pay from the Navy, we received our orders from the Navy and we were attached to the Marine Corps. And every time we go out, bunch [00:15:02] of us. The [inaudible] would be attached to [00:15:04] this Marine Corps, that Marine Corps or this Navy unit, and to go through even Pearl Harbor [00:15:12] you could not go through. None of us even know we got a Officer Naval Intelligence clearance. We got a Marine Corps I.D. They cannot get inside of Pearl Harbor without an officer by our side and it was so humiliating. So I went once to get pick up some documents and I told Officer, “never again.” I say, “from now on you fellows can go and get the documents to translate.” And these documents would come in from the field to this headquarters and [00:15:50] we would have to bring it all back to the office and disseminate which is important, which is vital, which is the priority, and we'd have to go through all the diaries, orders, and so forth. INTERVIEWER: [00:16:08] How long did you stay in Hawaii? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 22 �FURUIYE: Well see that was our headquarters. See, we would come in and go out, come in and go out, and see would we be attached to a unit and go out and come back in and go out. Like, first time I went out [00:16:25] a very short right after that Tarawa engagement. I just on a plane I flew and flew over and just looked around and dropped down for a couple hours and then come back. It was just an observation. And then the next- my next campaign was, I went to Saipan just towards the end of the conflict. [00:16:52] And then from that I came back to Hawaii again because that's their headquarters and they would loan us out and they would ask for so many man or something. INTERVIEWER: [00:17:04] So what was your role or what did you have to do on Saipan. FURUIYE: [00:17:07] Well mine was to interrogate and.. INTERVIEWER: Prisoners, Japanese prisoners. FURUIYE: Yeah, we had prisoners, and I never got interrogated anyone live and I've seen- I saw a bunch of it in a few in the pool compound. But the one I was interrogating, he was very severely burned from the windows blowers and I was questioning him. And first thing I asked him name and he told me, but he kept pointing to his [00:17:46] vest so I see it. So I took it out, there's a letter addressed to family. So I took that out. So I said, “What do you want me to do?” He says, he wanted me to mail it. And after that I started asking him his unit. He quietly told me what. I asked him where did this unit come from. And he told me and then I got to ask him something else and by then he would get weaker and weaker. I said, “you want some water?” and he said, he shook his head no. And before he got through and within a few minutes he was gone. [00:18:21] And that really touched me you know. So I carried that letter for a long time because I couldn't mail it anyway. And I said, “well, maybe later. Probably we make it to go to Japan.” So I kept it. So when we went to Japan I mailed it and I hope the folks got it. INTERVIEWER: [00:18:43] Was that the first prisoner of war? FURUIYE: Yeah that's the first prisoner of war. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: So that was a whole new experience for you? FURUIYE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 23 �Yeah that was a very fun experience. [00:18:52] Yeah that was very traumatic. I kind of felt bad for them. You know it's really when someone dies right in front of you. [00:19:01] So the Detail(?) came and took him. Gave him a decent burial. You know that's one thing about American troops though that we give them a decent burial. Yeah. [00:19:15] Even if they are the enemy. INTERVIEWER: And you were certainly able to give him some real comfort and solace in his last... FURUIYE: I hope yeah yeah. Right. INTERVIEWER: I'm sure it was a relief for him to hear someone speak Japanese to him, and to know his letter was taken care of. FURUIYE: Yeah, sure. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Thank you for sharing that. [00:19:37] So you're on Saipan for… FURUIYE: Just after they, I was secure I came back to the headquarters and then the next duty I had was aboard ship. And I was in the Radio Shack trying to intercept messages, the Japanese messages, and they'd patrol the water from the Mariana from Saipan up to toward Japan North. [00:20:11] But I was aboard ship almost 45 days and I got so tired of the water. [00:20:18] But they treated me so royally because of my rank they gave me a Chief Petty Officer’s quarters with another chief petty officer. My goodness. Chief petty officer that's quite a bit but he said, “well you're important guest, so.” And I get up to the radio shack and they treat me royally. INTERVIEWER: [00:20:39] And at this time you were a sergeant with a Rocker? FURUIYE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: A sergeant with 2 Rockers. [00:20:45] The Japanese, when you were attempting to interpret their radio or radio correspondence they spoke in standard Japanese? FURUIYE: Yeah. Standard Japanese. Yeah. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 24 �INTERVIEWER: No code? FURUIYE: [00:21:00] Yeah. Nothing in code but there was hardly anything of military point that I could do all that 45 days, except some that they said, somebody said so-and-so is in one unit and he's at so-and-so. That's about it. But it's a personal thing so I don't know, you know, that would be any military important. But I would tell them that so and so's unit is on Iwo Jima or wherever. INTERVIEWER: So when you were able to get off the ship what was your next assignment? FURUIYE: [00:21:38] Well then I came back to Hawaii there and then the next assignment was I think it was a tough one. In December of ‘44 I was sent to Maui and I trained with the Fifth Marine. This Fifth Marine the newly organized Marine because that was only first through the fourth and the old nigers Fifth Marines and I did combat training with him for four weeks. [00:22:12] I thought I was going to die. I thought I had never gone through a training that tough and I was, because of my rank, [00:22:24] I stayed with another sergeant and he took care of me. But he would tell some of the companies there. And he had to get up there and he said,”If you think you’re Marines forget it. I'll tell you which one of you is a Marine [00:22:48] when we get through here. You know, he washed out about 20-some guys out of the whole team and [00:22:55] he said, ‘if another Marine can't depend on you for his life I can't depend on you for my life. I got to have people that I can depend on.’ But I took that combat training over the hill, landing ship for four weeks at those odds I'm about ready to die. So he did fine. To this day I don't know how I made it because I don't know, it's no wonder the Marines are proud of their training. INTERVIEWER: [00:23:33] So four weeks of that training and did you know what was going to be coming for you next? FURUIYE: No. Fifth division, I was attached to it [00:23:39] and then Bruce and we got the orders to aboard ship. So in the middle of January we boarded a ship and they still didn't know where we were going. And finally just a week before we were to land on Iwo in February finally they told us where we going. [00:24:06] And I said, oh my gosh. So they assigned me a bodyguard. Now why in the name?! I ask somebody else is any of you- everybody's going two or three MIS boys together. No matter where I went I was always by myself. I said, you know, why is this? I couldn’t understand that. And I asked some of the boys in my unit and they only know of one other Harry Acuna. He said he was by himself and I said, ‘Harry, how come?’ He said, ‘I don't know.’ And he said, “Well maybe because you [00:24:48] are strong in English, you got me? You don't need the help.” I said, “come on.” I said, “but I'd like to have some company.” You know. But anyway I land on Iwo 15 plus D-plus 15, which means departation plus 15 minutes. So I was on the second wave and nothing happened til it hit the beach. And then after the third This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 25 �wave came in still nothing. And then about noon all hell broke loose right from the Suribachi, you know, they just started and that's when a lot of them got killed. But we never moved from that beach for three days. [00:25:28] That was hard. INTERVIEWER: And what was that date, do you remember? FURUIYE: February 19th I think with the landing date. I believe that’s February 19th and we never moved from there and our- the company I was with- all of them got killed or wounded except 17 men and one officer and I was one of the 17. And after [inaudible] they raised that famous flag then we were able to move a little bit, but [00:26:11] it was really tough going just that little island. And we saw- and we found out later through intelligence force they bombarded that thing three days and three nights incessantly and we found out there was less than one percent casualty because they were all inside their bunkers and that concrete was three foot thick and they had a maze of tunnels all up and down that island and we wondered, what happened to those after we started fighting. Some of them [00:26:50] had died and they had dragged all the soldiers with them and then it certain places they had cremated them. And we found a few above the ground I know that were out. This is my first combat other than in Saipan I saw some, but I was not on the front line but this is on the front line. END OF TAPE THREE BEGINNING OF TAPE FOUR INTERVIEWER: [00:00:01] Mr. Furuiye, can we go back just a little bit, and...I wanted to talk about your bodyguard. What was his name and what was he like? FURUIYE: [00:00:10] Yeah, well he was a real fun guy, he’s kind of husky. He was from Brooklyn, New York. He has an Italian friend by the name of Raymundo. But he had the greatest sense of humor. [00:00:25] And I asked him, ‘how did you ever pass- get in the Marines?’ [00:00:31] He said, “well, it was pushed onto me and I figured, ‘well if anybody can do it I can too.’” But he was a great bodyguard. He stood by me and we shared a lot of things together. But I still remember him as the guy with the greatest sense of humor. [00:00:50] He passed away years ago but I just remember him having the greatest sense of humor. Wonderful guy to have around. I was fortunate that way. INTERVIEWER: [00:01:02] You had a good working relationship and he certainly took good care of you. FURUIYE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 26 �[00:01:06] Yeah. Right. Right. INTERVIEWER: Okay. [00:01:11] We were talking also about landing at Iwo Jima and having to spend three days out on the beach and that was, as you said, ‘your first real experience with battling. What was going through your mind? FURUIYE: [00:01:25] Well, I figured, well, you see some of the fellas got hit and I don't know how they missed me and the bodyguard but we are more of the more fortunate ones, I guess. But to give you an idea. It was three days before we were able to move a little bit, but it wasn't until they secured that [inaudible] with that flag raise, you know, that we were actually able to move even a few hundred feet. But even then that was tough because all the Japanese soldiers were in the bunkers these thick [00:02:06] three foot bunkers firing on us. [00:02:10] And once in a while a few would come out but most of the time we were being fired from inside of the bunkers. And it was really tough going but I can't imagine that they had 20 some thousand Japanese defenders on the island. [00:02:30] And years later I found out that there were young farm boys on that island and girls and women that came to help and plant some food on the island. [00:02:53] I don't know how that anything can grow on that island because it's volcanic ash. [00:02:59] But they were caught before they could return, and they all died there. And that's another sad part of the story. But I found this out from the Japanese tape called, Return to Iwo Jima. It tells of how 20 some young people- youth- died on the island. INTERVIEWER: You had mentioned a little earlier that all of the soldiers, the Japanese soldiers, had dug tunnels and they were hiding in the bunkers. FURUIYE: Yeah, a beehive tunnel. [00:03:45] They would come out once in a while the fighting and in other places they had caves and they somehow those that were in the town. We found out later that they had cremated them in one area and also in these caves too. They had or some of them died. They died just that way you know, but it's something you'll never forget. You don't want to see it because you feel so sad, but you know that they died. [00:04:22] We just blew up the cave and closed it up. INTERVIEWER: When you first learned that there were going to be setting of explosives in the caves and that that's how the cave lesions were going to take place, what were you thinking? FURUIYE: [00:04:46] I don't think I had any emotions because I thought this is going to be their grave, because at the time the heat of battle you know you cannot take it. You know we found a lot. Before that [00:05:05] it was secure even as American soldiers- Marines- we couldn't remove their bodies. And finally after having it secured, they started to remove the bodies and make This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 27 �room for a burial. But until then there was nothing we could do. [00:05:22] And after we started moving and then move forward. In about 10 days later that September 10th- [00:05:33] I don't remember now- that's when my bodyguard and I both got hit by a mortar with various light flesh wounds. [00:05:41] We, they stayed for a couple days and then went back. And then later on I was assigned to the battalion headquarters and they would bring the documents or prisoners or if they caught them they had another place for the prisoner compound, [00:06:03] but we never found any prisoner we couldn't get any. Although, we did get 1300 prisoners at the end because they were so emaciated that they didn't even have weapons to kill themselves. [00:06:17] I told them, before I never went in to the capture, but I told this one officer to go back and tell him I said, there's no sense trying to kill yourself. [00:06:35] I says, there’s no shame because you fought the hardest you could and it's no shame to be because you did your best and you didn't accomplish it, but it's no shame because you've done your best. Tell them that. So he did he said he went back and he said some of them refused to come but he was a Navy officer he says. So he went back and told them, I think we took 1300 prisoners. INTERVIEWER: So prior to your being hit by mortar, [00:07:12] what was your main role? Was it to assist in cave flushing to talk them out... FURUIYE: Try to talk to him but with a microphone [00:07:19] but in the heat of battle there's no way you're going to talk. Yeah but we thought well if we could capture even the wounded to bring him in to see if we could interrogate him, but there was no way that could be done until things settle down after a couple of weeks. Then I went to battalion headquarters and they found some documents and stuff. [00:07:46] So I didn't get to interrogate prisoners. I was looking at the documents mostly to see what they- and they brought a few prisoners to me. And then one of them [00:07:57] in particular I noticed an officer. He looked very intelligent so I asked him what his role was and he was a cold man. So right away I told the Army, I told them, he's a cold man. They whisked him off to Pearl Harbor right away because I don't know what happened to him after that but if you're a cold man you're cryptographer, you know, you're way up on top. [00:08:27] And one other incident was they brought me the tunic, and it’s a way before your time, but Baron Nishi won the Olympic Equestrian in 1932 in Los Angeles Olympics. They brought me his tunic from the tank. I said, “where’s Baron?” They said they didn't find him but they brought me his tunic. It was Baron Nishi who was the commander. He was a colonel by then and at the blimp he was a [00:09:10] captain. But he was the commanding officer of the tanks and in his tunic I found one picture of him holding a baby and his wife and a postcard. And that son that was in that picture he came to L.A.in that last Olympic, or something, didn’t he. When they had it in ‘84 or something like that in L.A. I'm pretty sure he did. [00:09:46] I know he was a guest or something. INTERVIEWER: And do you know what happened to the picture and the postcard? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 28 �FURUIYE: No I don't know. I truly didn’t know. Intelligence, you know? INTERVIEWER: [00:10:00] So you- because the Japanese would not surrender or come out of the caves you had few opportunities to interrogate. FURUIYE: [00:10:18] Yeah. Then a lot of them you know they won't come out. They would throw, get the flamethrower. It's a cruel way. I tell them you know that's going to happen. But it's a cruel way of trying to get him out and everything. But there were very many, unless he was very badly wounded they would give. But there were other fellows that was interrogated because I was at the battalion headquarters already so I didn't get to go out to the front except they brought me this tunic they wanted me to... INTERVIEWER: [00:10:53] That must have been a sobering moment. FURUIYE: Yeah. Right. INTERVIEWER: How long were you in Iwo Jima FURUIYE: Till march. [00:11:10] I think it was March, the last day of March I think it was that we left and just all the- I don't know how many- I don't even remember how many Niseis were on there because like I said I'm always by myself. And when he boarded the ship there was only a handful of us coming back to our headquarters again and where the others went, I had no idea. There was about five or six of us aboard ship and that's on our way home [00:11:39] we heard on the radio that President Roosevelt had died in April. That aboard ship. [00:11:54] I don't know how long. [00:11:55] I don't remember how long we were on board ship but it was just a few of us and we had practice running the ship and we were headed back to Pearl. INTERVIEWER: [00:12:09] So you got back to Hawaii. FURUIYE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [00:12:13] Were there any additional assignments for you as soon as you got back? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 29 �FURUIYE: Yeah. As soon as I got back I got a couple of weeks, about 10 days, to leave and then I was sent out to Guam. Now I say, ‘What am I going to do in Guam?’ And then again I'm by myself. And I got. And they said, ‘well, where do you want to stay with.’ I said, ‘Well is there a CV close by that, you know, the Navy SEALs stay at?’ [00:12:43] They said, ‘Why do you wanna stay...’ I said, ‘Well, they have better food, better facilities because they are a construction battalion, you know, they get better…’ So they said, ‘Ok. Yeah. They got room.’ So I got there and I didn't find out later, [00:12:58] but I was going to be interpreting as the moderator for a war crimes trial on three Japanese soldiers captured and tried for cannibalism. And they were captured trying to raid the mess hall, the kitchen of the CB, and they were captured. [00:13:26] We wondered Guam has been secured for so many year, so long. [00:13:32] And they looked so healthy and we find out they had cannibal life for the comrade that had died. They didn't kill them but they had been raiding the kitchen and they had never been caught until then. And at that war crime trial the prosecuting attorney was Colonel Ammon. I said, ‘What is your first name Colonel?’ [00:14:05] He told me. I said, ‘Mr. Colonel Amery weren't you the governor of Colorado years ago?’ He said, ‘right.’ He said, ‘Yeah, I was.’ So that's how you know he was [00:14:20] one time governor here. [00:14:24] And so we got to be great friends and his brother in law was an island Commander Marine General Henry Larson two-star general. [00:14:34] So he took me up to his place and introduced me to him and we came very good friends even after the war. [00:14:44] And so even after we came home we used to have lunch every Tuesday- the first Tuesday of the month unless Henry had a court appointment. He was a lawyer. [00:14:58] He had his own law office here with partners and he came out to be a great blessing because Henry Larson after he retired lived here in Denver because it was his brother in law. [00:15:14] And I told him about what happened on Iwo about me getting wounded but never getting a Purple Heart because they told me I have to go back to the headquarters and they gave me the run around, I told him. So he said, ‘Do you know- remember your bodyguard name?’ I said, ‘yeah but I don't know his address.’ They found it in the records. So he verified it. And that's how I got my Purple Heart. The General got it for me in 1948 three years after that discharge. [00:15:48] But the war crime trial they were found guilty. [00:15:52] But how they were treated after that I don't know because the war ended and right away they told me you got another assignment. [00:16:04] And so I would board a ship in all this. And right after that about five days later. And when I was on a surrender deal to mark assignment because I was the interpreter for them. And it was August, the last day of August when we got the surrender sign at Marcus Island. INTERVIEWER: [00:16:34] Can you tell us about your participation in this surrender from Japan? FURUIYE: [00:16:39] Yeah. [00:16:39] We we went there and we had almost a week but it took us about three days. The surrender document I had to cooperate with the chief of staff of the Japanese officer there and to put it into Japanese official Japanese form. [00:17:03] And it was very difficult it took us about three days but we finally got it done. The men on the island didn't look too starving and emaciated because it was just a supply depot and fuel depot. Although there This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 30 �wasn't too much supplies left but they had the old general there. He could hardly move. He had retired and they had taken him out of retirement. And I don't even remember his name because I don't ever hear his name mentioned but he was very feeble. [00:17:44] And it was very sad to see him come aboard ship for the surrender to give up his sword and surrender you know. And to this day I'm trying to think of the Chief of Staff I worked with and I can't think of his name but he was a very gentle, congenial man. Very friendly. The surrender went on very smoothly, and on that island there was one Nisei from California in the Navy- in [00:18:25] the Japanese Navy uniform- spoke perfect English and he was trying to bum cigarettes off the sailors and everything. [00:18:35] The Japanese officer reprimanded him and said, “You do not negotiate,” but it was quite an experience. [00:18:49] At the surrender deal the Japanese, in appreciation, [00:18:58] the Chief of Staff brought three boxes with the Japanese samurai swords in-cased and our names on top with a paper. One was to the Admiral [inaudible] and one was for our Chief of Staff Commodore Grant, who was a wonderful man to work with. [00:19:19] He and I and the chief of staff were and one for me for, he said, for your efforts and the headman. But like I said earlier it was a low point in my life when the admiral said it confiscated my sword, gift sword, and said the enlisted men are not entitled to give to the sword and confiscated it and the Commodore and interceded and tried to get it back. [00:19:51] He said, “You just can't buck the two-star admiral I guess.” He said he just wouldn't do it. He wouldn’t give it back. [00:19:59] So that was I think the low point. INTERVIEWER: Through all of your efforts. FURUIYE: [00:20:02] Yeah, yeah, because it was given to me for our efforts in getting the surrender deal translated [00:20:11] and signed. INTERVIEWER: Do you think it was more about you being an enlisted man or... FURUIYE: [00:20:18] I think it was more prejudice than enlisted man. I think that was just and he said I'm going to donate it to the Naval Academy but we later found out Henry Larson checked in with because he was a graduate of the Academy. [00:20:31] He said no such thing. [00:20:36] So it's one of those ironic things that just happen. INTERVIEWER: Needless, you’ve really been through it all. FURUIYE: Right. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: To put it back of their minds and kept going. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 31 �FURUIYE: Right right. INTERVIEWER: [00:20:52] After your participation in the surrender, what was your next role? FURUIYE: As soon as we came back, [00:20:58] we came back through Guam and I thought well this is where we get to go home. He said no way, he says, me and Dave this time found another partner for me. Eddie Komamoto from Hawaii. He's a [inaudible] going to Japan on occupation. “Why just two of us?,” he said, well some are there already. So they loaded us on a P.B.Y. A PBY is what they call it in the Navy. They call it the ruptured duck but I believe because it is the [00:21:34] slowest flying machine in the world. I think a seagull could beat us flying. But we got there. We flew in there. We left around second of September from Guam. But is the slowest thing and we finally got to [inaudible] to refuel and then they flew us to Sasebo where headquarters was. They called it NavTech means Naval Technical Machine Mission to Japan and it was more like observing [00:22:17] what has transpired and they wanted to know how they're surviving and so forth. We went to Nagasaki the first place right off the Sasebo just a little ways from Nagasaki and couldn't find no women or children. [00:22:37] Couldn't understand why. [00:22:41] And we asked and said they thought the Russians were coming and they said that the Russians were going to get killed and raped. So they found out after a few days it was Americans so you could see them all coming down from the hills. Yeah. And they said they're thankful it wasn't the Russians coming for occupation. [00:23:00] But here we are you know years later he said, well atomic residue and all that. Here we’re sifting through Nagasaki walking around, digging with our hands and looking at things and we saw a few. You never want to see anybody that's been in an atomic. Boy, it'll just turn your stomach. You can't look at them and I felt so, you know, your throat just gags you know and it's hard to describe because he feels so sorry for him and there's nothing you can do. So I just turned away. I just couldn't [00:23:39] stomach it. I just couldn't. The doctors said tried to look after them as best they could American doctors. But he said, a burn victim like this we're not accustomed to we don't know what to do. So he just gave ‘em some painkillers. But it's something you never want to encounter. [00:24:05] You think combat is bad, this is worse. INTERVIEWER: [00:24:13] The city was rubbled. FURUIYE: I guess it wasn't as bad as Hiroshima because they had a mountain on one side. Houses about 50 miles away were cracked. From there my job was to with the Marine captain and I and Eddie we went around Sagaken. I asked them if we're going to Kumamoto and they said yeah. We inventoried the arm but they made it so simple for us they had it all piled in neat pile. [00:24:53] All the rifles in one pile. All the swords in one pile. All the pistols...and it was so easy we just put it down. They gave us the figures and we translated it in Japanese and we just took their word This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 32 �for it. [00:25:06] The captain said take their word for it, they're honest, take their word for it. So we did. So we get to Kumamoto. I told the Captain, I says, ‘do they have a head from America?’ [00:25:24] He said, ‘Yeah they have one down there below the castle.’ So that's why I said, ‘you'd think I can have some time off to go visit my relatives here?’ So he said, ‘yeah, here I'll give you permission to requisition for Jeep.’ [00:25:41] So I got the Jeep from the motor pool and Eddie and I drove out to my country to see my relatives from Kuomo city and they were glad to see me and they asked me to stay over so we stayed over night. [00:25:59] I said I can't stay too long. [00:26:01] And I met most of ‘em and found out some of my distant relatives were killed in the war or missing and then I came back and went to visit my old judo teacher and he was so thin. I said, ‘what happened?’ He said, ‘six months ago,’ he says, [00:26:21] ‘they were bucket brigading trying to put the fire out.’ So he told ‘em, ‘that’s stupid you're just wasting energy you're not going to get a fire. We've lost the war. Why are you wasting your energy? Do it for more constructive…’ [00:26:38] The kempai heard him, threw him in jail. He said, well no, he said, they beat me and everything. He says for saying anti-Japanese. So I came back in and then I met a couple at my school. One of them said he was physically unable. I told him, I said, ‘can you get me some sake?’ He said, ‘Oh yeah, we can find you sake.’ So I paid him. He was glad that we had Japanese money. And I said, give me some sake. So I said give me a couple of bottles. He said, yeah. I took it back to the kitchen, he [00:27:18] says, ‘can you take this.’ ‘Oh yeah yeah.’ So he said, ‘Take what you want.’ So I took some canned bacon and some other staples and took them to my Judo Sensei. He got down on his knees and hand and just cried and thanked me for it because they hadn't had any good things to eat. So they were happy to see the rice and all that. INTERVIEWER: That must have been very difficult for you to see FURUIYE: Yeah, it was sad for me to see but he had this old tweed suit. He said, ‘remember this?’ I said ‘Yeah, I remember [00:28:00] that you went back in 1937 to visit California. You brought it home.’ He had it tailor-made and everything. Look at it now, just loose now. And he just joked about it. But I feel so sorry for him. INTERVIEWER: That you were able to help him. FURUIYE: Yeah. Yeah. It would make me cry. And after that you know and then we had to go back to END OF TAPE FOUR BEGINNING OF TAPE FIVE This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 33 �INTERVIEWER: [00:00:01] So Mr. Furuiye, when you left off you were telling us about your Judo Sensei. FURUIYE: [00:00:05] Yeah. After we got it wasn't too long because I didn't stay very long in Japan because after I got through in inventory duty in Kumamoto and then we headed back to Sasebo headquarters and the orders are out. [00:00:26] If you have enough points who would like to go home. I was one of the first in line. I said I want to go home I've had enough overseas duty. So I was fortunate enough to get on the first ship to leave Sasebo for Hawaii and they were I think they were 14 or 15 of us Niseis that were there from our deployed group that was on that mission to Japan left and we came back to Pearl. And this was right in the middle of November. We got back to Pearl, [00:01:09] I think, it was around the 20th of November. It was just before Thanksgiving, I remember. And from there we waited for some kind of transportation and there wasn't. Most of us had more points, but it's ironic because I found out later- one week later- they froze the points for the MIS people because they needed them but we got out in time. Then I did get a flight back from [00:01:50] Honolulu back to Oakland. And this was towards the end of November. INTERVIEWER: [00:01:58] Before we talk about you getting back to the United States, what was going on with your wife in Kyoto? FURUIYE: [00:02:03] In the meantime my folks had gone down to Gila River and brought her home here to Colorado and they were living on the Ranch. We had a spare house on the ranch and that's where they were staying. My folks went out down there after them. [00:02:20] So my wife and her folks were living on the ranch here. INTERVIEWER: [00:02:27] While your wife was at camp though something else happened with your wife. FURUIYE: [00:02:32] Yeah. My daughter was born in December. Yeah. The year before. I came home the first birthday on the first birthday. INTERVIEWER: So was that really difficult for you? [00:02:44] Not only were you a newlywed but you had to worry about your wife and your brand new daughter that you've never seen. At camp and you were far away. FURUIYE: [00:02:54] Well I was kind of anxious to get home and this is one reason. I said I jumped at the first opportunity. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 34 �INTERVIEWER: [00:03:04] And what was your wife...how was she coping? FURUIYE: [00:03:09] Well I think she did all right because she was with the folks. She and her folks were with her to here and she adjusted to it. [00:03:23] And we were glad to be out of camp but she said she had a hard time with the baby crying all the way home on the train to Denver. Said you couldn't do nothing to keep her quiet. She just cried most of the time. INTERVIEWER: [00:03:41] So you arrive in Oakland…. FURUIYE: I arrived in Oakland and then from there they put us on a tube train and it was the most dilapidated tube train I ever saw. And they said all the good trains were on the East Coast bringing back the troops from that were coming in from Europe and the West Coast didn't have too many trains at that time. It was all on the East Coast bringing home troops. But we made it home. And I was discharged in December ‘45. My daughter's birthday I got home. [00:04:20] She was 1 year old INTERVIEWER: And what was that like? To come home. FURUIYE: [00:04:25] Well it's a mixed feeling, really. [00:04:31] And because all this time you were on a time schedule regimentation and all of a sudden you've got your release paper and you're out, you know. [00:04:46] And when I got released from Fort Logan here my brother was there to pick me up and it was, like I said, it was a mixed feeling, kind of. Something like it was a let down [00:05:04] and again it was happy you know because it was you were always keyed up and regimentation and you had a job to do. [00:05:13] But now, all of a sudden, now what. But it was glad. Good to get home. INTERVIEWER: [00:05:18] Kind of that fear of the unknown too. FURUIYE: [00:05:21] Yeah, right. That's right. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [00:05:24] How were you treated when you got back to the United States? FURUIYE: [00:05:27] Well I was treated fine. I had no problems. Some of the MIS friends, I guess, their folks- their brothers were staying here in Denver because they haven’t gone back to West Coast This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 35 �yet, and there were three of them that came here with me. [00:05:50] So I introduced them and we all went out together and we didn't have our civilian clothes we were still in uniform. So we were treated fine. INTERVIEWER: [00:06:03] So what was your homecoming like with your wife and your new daughter and starting all over again? FURUIYE: [00:06:09] Well, what can I say? They had a feast waiting for me which was a welcome sight. [00:06:15] Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Real happy to see your wife? And your brand new baby. FURUIYE: Right. FURUIYE: And your daughter's name is… FURUIYE: Carol. Caroline. INTERVIEWER: [00:06:29] So what did you do at getting back and getting used to being in the States again what did you do? FURUIYE: For a while [00:06:35] I was lost I didn't know what to do. [00:06:37] Of course here in the winter there isn’t too much to do so. But later I got adjusted and I went to work part time in the grocery store because I had done that before the war too and and I went to work for a supermarket. INTERVIEWER: [00:07:01] And you did that for a while? FURUIYE: [00:07:02] Yeah I did that until the...and then I went and opened up my own business for a couple of years and it got to a point where it was just too much. It was breaking my health so the doctor suggested I get out. [00:07:23] So I did. And then we thought we go to California. [00:07:29] So we went out to California and I worked out in California from ‘50 to ‘53. [00:07:37] But in the meantime when the Korean War broke out I was recalled in ‘50- September of ‘50. I decide to teach Japanese [00:07:54] at the Presidio Monterey at the language school I taught there until the 11th until November ‘51 about 14 months. [00:08:02] And then I came back to This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 36 �L.A. and worked there for a transfer company for a while. Then my father said his health is bad, so why don’t you come back home and help your brother. So we returned here in ‘53 and I worked on the farm for a while. Helped out. Then he got better so I got a job working in a supermarket and worked at the supermarket until 1967. I was just assistant manager for years there. [00:08:41] Then I went into the post office and retired from the post office in ‘83. INTERVIEWER: And all this time while you were getting back into your regular life back in America, your missions that you had done as an M.I.S member were all classified. FURUIYE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: How was that like to live with knowing that. FURUIYE: [00:09:06] Well, we of course like they say you know we didn’t, couldn't say anything about M.I.S until the late 70s until the Freedom of Information Act. But here we didn't think there'd be that many M.I.S. But, anyway, another M.I.S he’d been and I said I've been pretty good because I had joined the American Legion and he was in the American Legion. He said, ‘how about us form an M.I.S here? They got one in California. How many is there here?’ I said, [00:09:45] ‘Well, we'll never know until we try.’ So we did. We informed and we were surprised there were that many but we didn't know what to do. So this guy John Baruchi and I went out to one of the general meeting they had in Northern California in San Jose. [00:10:07] And we found out what they were doing and we kind of see what we could do here. So we formed one in about ‘82 maybe 3, somewhere in there, I don't remember now. And at the time about ‘83- 4 Ken Yaritomo, who is the historian and Secretary, he wrote to the M.I.S organization as having that committee to get together and get this down and get a [00:10:46] record of the M.I.S. And we got a luke warm feeling some of them said maybe and Northern California spokesman that Shik Kirar was instructive. He said, ‘too late. No. No use.’ The only one that really backed us up was George Kaneguye of Southern Cal. And he said we'll be glad to do it, get it together and we'll get together some location. Seattle and Hawaii said well we might. We might. We'll think [00:11:26] about it. So Kent said, well there's no use in depending. We said, we might as well get our own biography together. That's why he printed that biography. You saw, with the sail hat. This was way back in the 80s. And now they're scrambling around. And we tried to get them to let's all get together and get one together but we've got a very lukewarm. So it never materialized but said well we had to do it ourselves. INTERVIEWER: [00:12:00] And that has been one of the things, because exactly as you said the M.I.S served separately they weren’t in battalions and all together weren’t in battalions like the 100s or 442 and one Regimental Combat Team. It was difficult to get that started, but that’s good you did it. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 37 �FURUIYE: [00:12:18] We're glad we did it because 10 of our members- 11 of our members are gone now. Eleven members whose history we have are gone. INTERVIEWER: [00:12:30] So you’ve continue to remain active with the M.I.S. FURUIYE: Yes. I've been president here and [00:12:36] this is my fourth year now. Nobody wants it, for some reason. I took over for the M.I.S reunion here. You know I said I'd do it. It's a two year deal so then they said no take it one more time. I said well this year is the end now. [Inaudible] and I've been president, he’s vice president, for four years now. INTERVIEWER: You can institute term limits. FURUIYE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [00:13:04] Are there any other things that you continue to be active in? FURUIYE: [00:13:08] Well, like I’m the Secretary Treasurer of the Denver [inaudible] which is all Niseis. [00:13:18] I've been secretary treasurer for that for 14 years now. And you know we take on that Amashi project this year. We built the monument down there in ‘83. [00:13:34] And this year we updated. We leveled it all off. We put a lawn in. [00:13:41] We planted pine trees around it. So that's why I said Friday we were down there 13 hours down there taking a look over the next project to put a well down there with the sprinkler system. Then I was a board member and Cabinet member of my Lions Club for the past 17 years but since I got sick I had to kind of back off. I'm still a member, active member, but I told him I cannot hold any active office because it's just too much for me. INTERVIEWER: You’re still President of the M.I.S committee. FURUIYE: Yeah I’m President of [00:14:22] M.I.S. I was president 4 times that the Japanese Association for Colorado, but I just could not take it no more because there is so much bickering. [00:14:33] I said I am resigning from the Japanese Association because you've got a mixture of Niseis and you've got these newcomers from Japan that are in there and it just does not gel. [00:14:50] You try as you might. It just does not gel. [00:14:54] Their priorities are different. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 38 �Because you were raised Japanese American and it's just very different. FURUIYE: Yeah right. Right. Right. INTERVIEWER: [00:15:06] In addition to all of these things that you've done you also have some grandchildren. So could you tell us their names? FURUIYE: Yeah. A great granddaughter [00:15:13] is working at a bank. She's an assistant loan officer. My oldest grandson lives in Colorado Springs. He is the marketing manager for one of the big specialty food companies and my youngest grandson is in Japan now. He's teaching English as well as employed by some tech company. I don't know what he does but I understand he's going to take my daughter just called and said he called and said that he's going to take a [00:15:56] proficiency test and if he passes this he will jump in pay and position. [00:16:07] So we hope he makes it. INTERVIEWER: [00:16:10] Your youngest grandson is following in his grandpa's footsteps? FURUIYE: I don't know about that. [00:16:14] Well he's really a good kid and really a wonderful caring person. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [00:16:26] So speaking of grandchildren and future generations, not just for Japanese Americans, but for all Americans and future generations. What are your words of wisdom or advice? FURUIYE: [00:16:38] Well I think don't lose your heritage and your background. I think you should always keep that in mind. Where you came from, where your folks came from. Which I'm fortunate because my grandson is very interested. [00:16:54] He's a judo enthusiast. He teaches young young kids judo now. One night a week and he's interested in what I do and so that's the reason I gave him all my awards and medals to him. He's got it in the case. I'm sure he appreciates it. [00:17:22[ Just recently last year one of the retired colonels he's very interested in documentation so I used to go to all these service organizations and he heard me speak about the M.I.S at the University of Regis. I went there twice. So he said I want to put this document. So he made a whole book of my life. INTERVIEWER: [00:18:00] What’s the name of that book going to be? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 39 �FURUIYE: It's “I am M.I.S.” I should have brought you one. INTERVIEWER: [00:18:09] It's out already? FURUIYE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [00:18:10] Oh, it’s out already? FURUIYE: Various errors in it. There’s errors in it. There is errors in it because I never got to check the final draft. I will send it to you. I think I have a spare copy I know there is no more copies but there's there’s a spare. I think we have one spare. INTERVIEWER: That would be wonderful. FURUIYE: There's some errors in there because I never got check the final draft but I'll sayINTERVIEWER: Are those errors in your favor? FURUIYE: [00:18:36] Well it's a misspelling and I think some of the grammar I think could be a little bit better. [00:18:48] Yeah. But the Colonel was good enough to. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: You’ve had a wonderful...just full of [00:18:58] experience in your life and we really appreciate your sharing it with us. FURUIYE: Oh that's quite all right. I'm only happy to do it. INTERVIEWER: Thank you very much. FURUIYE: And thank you. Thank you for asking. I was only too happy to do it. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 40 �Thanks. END OF TAPE FIVE BEGINNING OF TAPE SIX INTERVIEWER: [00:00:00] And could you just tell us what these are? FURUIYE: A.D.C. stands for Alaskan Defense Command and that polar bear is also from that Alaskan defense command INTERVIEWER: And you received this from serving in Alaska? FURUIYE: Yes. This is when we were up in for the Kiska Campaign these are the patches. [00:00:31] Canada patches I received when I was attached to the Canadian Grandeurs or the Artillery Unit up in Kiska. INTERVIEWER: Go ahead. FURUIYE: [00:00:51] This patch is the 5th Marine Corps which I was attached to in the invasion of Iwo Jima. I don't know how many of these badges happen to have this one. It's quite unique because the 5th Marine was only organized for the invasion of Iwo. [00:01:14] And after Iwo it was disbanded. [00:01:23] Well this is just the ID card that you are a member of the JICPOA or Joint Intelligence Center Pacific Ocean Area. [00:01:34] They are Nisei unit there and the Intelligence Center. INTERVIEWER: [00:01:46] OK. FURUIYE: [00:01:50] And this is a card we received after this. [00:01:57] I was a member of the Surrender Committee of the Marcuse Island and aboard the USS Bagni which was a heavy destroyer. [00:02:13] And it was signed by Rear Admiral Whiting who was the presiding officer in the Surrender Ceremony. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 41 �[00:02:28] And that's a Japanese flag symbol? FURUIYE: Yeah I don't know why they went with Japanese. I think this Japanese Navy Ships used to use this symbol. INTERVIEWER: And there is the American seal. FURUIYE: Yeah. Signed by Admiral Whiting. [00:02:51] Well this is a card that gives you access to top secret captured documents. Otherwise you are allowed to handle some of the top secret documents that we ran across in translating or interpreting. [00:03:12] But this gave you as an official examiner with some documents. INTERVIEWER: And this was issued by the Marine Corps? FURUIYE: Yes. [00:03:24] Shot in Iwo Jima right after the hostilities. INTERVIEWER: Excuse me. OK. FURUIYE: This is a picture taken right after the hostilities ended on Iwo in March of ‘45 with two of my Marine officers who I worked with. INTERVIEWER: And that's you on the left? FURUIYE: Yeah, that's me on the left, that grubby one. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the names of the two officers? FURUIYE: I have it in the back of that. [00:04:03] But Rickardson is one of them but I don't know. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 42 �INTERVIEWER: Just take it back and read it again. [00:04:10] Go ahead. FURUIYE: [00:04:19] This is the flag raising ceremony after the fall of Iwo Jima became possession. Well, not possession, I guess, but the conquering of Iwo Jima March of [00:04:38] ‘45. INTERVIEWER: Were you present at this? FURUIYE: [00:04:42] Yes. INTERVIEWER: But you don't know where you were? FURUIYE: No. [00:04:47] This is the photo from looking south at Mount Suribachi it's all quiet right [00:05:01] now. This is General Smith the Commanding General of the 5th Amphibious Force that landed on Iwo the first third of the Marine. [00:05:28] He was nicknamed “Howling Mad Smith” because he was really a tough general. [00:05:36] So they gave him a new nickname “Howling Mad Smith.” [00:05:54] Well I think this picture was taken some time after I got back from Iwo before I left from Guam. [00:06:01] So it must have been sometime in the summer of ‘45. INTERVIEWER: And can you explain the insignia on your shoulders? FURUIYE: Yeah it’s a Tech Sergeant or Sergeant First Class. INTERVIEWER: How old are you in this photo? FURUIYE: How old am I there? 20...I can’t [00:06:31] remember. I have to do some figuring. Yeah something like that. [00:06:43] 27, I think. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [00:06:57] OK. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 43 �FURUIYE: [00:06:59] This is a picture that was developed from undeveloped captured film that we found on Kiska. We developed this back after we came back to Minnesota. One of my friends we had a hobby of photography had the film developed after we'd gotten back and he gave each of us a copy. INTERVIEWER: And these were taken… FURUIYE: Yeah. These were taken by Japanese forces on Kiska Air Force and looked like they were inside of a plane. [00:07:41] Looks like he's the navigator or something. He’s got a map in front of him. INTERVIEWER: [00:07:47] Let me get that in our shot. [00:07:51] OK. FURUIYE: [00:08:11] This is another scene of the undeveloped Japanese film which we found on Kiska. INTERVIEWER: It again is inside a plane? FURUIYE: [00:08:26] Yeah that that's inside of a plane too it looks like. INTERVIEWER: OK. FURUIYE: This is another scene from that same undeveloped roll of film we found on Kiska. Seem like it's a radio operator. INTERVIEWER: [00:09:08] OK. FURUIYE: This is also on that roll of film. You seem like it's a scene from one plane taking a picture of another. INTERVIEWER: [00:09:18] It's probably the same type of plane there and we can try to get a closer view of this. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 44 �FURUIYE: [00:09:39] This was taken by a Navy photographer- Official Navy Photographer on the USS Bagby [00:09:48] when I went to Markus Island for the surrender of the island. [00:10:07] This is the surrender negotiating committee that I worked with on Markus Island. [00:10:13] That second officer from the left was their Chief of Staff and the Navy Officer who's on the right were a part of the negotiating team, [00:10:31] but the main Commodore Grant was not there but these other gentlemen were part of the negotiating team. [00:10:40] And one of the officers, I don't know which, was from the Judge Advocate General. [00:10:44] So he was a lawyer so he would want the main people in the language of the surrendered terms. Island that he had taken from from the Navy ship the USS Bagley. INTERVIEWER: So that’s Markus Island there? FURUIYE: Yeah. This is the heavy destroy USS Bagley that we went to Markus island for the surrender. INTERVIEWER: And that's what the card was that you received? [00:11:24] OK. You made good friends with the photographer? FURUIYE: [00:11:31] Yeah. He gave me a whole set of them. INTERVIEWER: Again, this one again is? FURUIYE: Yeah this is again the picture of the photo of the Markus Island. All these large photos taken by a Navy photographer. INTERVIEWER: OK. FURUIYE: [00:11:51] This is two sailors putting up a plaque or a sign saying [00:11:58] this island is now secured by the U.S. forces. INTERVIEWER: Markus Island again? [00:12:20] And what's happening in this one? FURUIYE: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 45 �This one is the some of the American Sailors had given these Japanese soldiers a pack of cigarettes and they're sharing cigarettes with each other. INTERVIEWER: So these are a couple of the Japanese soldiers involved in the... FURUIYE: No. They were just part of the men on the island. END OF INTERVIEW This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. 46 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nobuo Furuiye oral history interview, September 24, 2000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nobuo Furuiye oral history interview transcript [full interview], September 24, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Furuiye, Nobuo: narrator Nakamatsu, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 46 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-24 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0144_T_Furuiye https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/0c674f4e9689baf7695d6f03185300ec.pdf 94fdaf8cf65e8e6a723af97c179f15b8 PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Mildred Ichikawa, July 6, 2008, Denver, Colorado ICHIKAWA: I was wondering, what is that there? (inaudible) [laughter] INTERVIEWER: OK, here we go. Today is July 7---July 6th, 2008. We're in Denver, Colorado and we’re going to be interviewing Mildred Ichikawa. Interviewing is Robert Horsting, on camera 2B is Tim Yuge and I’d like to start off by thanking you on behalf of the Go for Broke National Education Center and the National History Program for agreeing to do this interview today. ICHIKAWA: Well thank you for having me. INTERVIEWER: Could you please start by stating your full name and place and date of birth? ICHIKAWA: My full name---you want my full name or married name? INTERVIEWER: Please, your maiden name. ICHIKAWA: Maiden name. Mildred ?Chigeko? Yamamoto, born in ?Igaha?, Kauai, Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: And talk to us about your early childhood. What do you know of your parents? ICHIKAWA: I was orphaned at age two and adopted by ?Yosaimon? and---Yamamoto and his wife ?Kune? from ?Kaloa?, Kauai. They were the greatest parents I’d ever seen. All my friends envied me because my mother was the nicest person. [00:02:00] INTERVIEWER: What happened to your birth parents? ICHIKAWA: My mother died of influenza. It was 1920 I guess and my father was left with---two . . . three . . . ---four children and I guess he got disappointed and he committed suicide. So all the children were given out to different people. My youngest sister was given to a family in Honolulu. My older sister, given to family in Kauai. I was, ?Kaloa? and my eldest brother, we have lost track of him. INTERVIEWER: At what point did you---growing up, did you know you were adopted? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 51 �I did know I was adopted, but children are cruel and they used to tease me. “Oh, you’re adopted! You’re adopted!” And so I used to cry and run to my mother and I told her, “You’re raising me, so you’re my mother, aren’t I?” And she says, “Oh yes. Oh yes.” This was when I was eight, nine years old. But as I grew older, it didn’t bother me at all. INTERVIEWER: The name that you gave me as your maiden name. ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Was that your adopted parents’ name? ICHIKAWA: My adopted parents’ name. INTERVIEWER: And what was your original family name? Do you know? ICHIKAWA: It was Yano. Y-A-N-O. I don’t know too much about the Yano [00:04:00] family, so. INTERVIEWER: And your parents, let’s talk about the person you knew to be your parents, your father. What was your father’s name? ICHIKAWA: His name was ?Yosaimon? Yamamoto and he was in a (inaudible). He owned part of the soda works and ice cream manufacturing. He was the vice president of the company and my mother was a seamstress and a sewing---she had a little sewing store in ?Kaloa?. INTERVIEWER: And the soda works, how large was that a company and who all did they distribute to? ICHIKAWA: Oh, for all the islands of Kauai. There was just one company and this is sort of sad because when war started, the military came in and they said, the president was a Japanese, my father was the vice president, and they said that since you’re aiding Ja---, you cannot run the company because we want the Coke and ice cream for the GIs and they were afraid that they would poison the drinks. So they said you can’t work there anymore. So they took the company away from them and just (inaudible) a lump sum and he was retired. INTERVIEWER: Describe your father physically for us. What did he look like despite his physique? ICHIKAWA: Who? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: Your father. ICHIKAWA: Was what? [00:06:00] INTERVIEWER: Describe his physique. What did he look like physically? ICHIKAWA: A typical Japanese man, not very big, not very small. INTERVIEWER: About how tall was he? ICHIKAWA: Maybe about 5’6”. INTERVIEWER: And what was his demeanor like? ICHIKAWA: Well, he was the head of the men’s Buddhist club. He was the head of the Japanese School Association. He was the head of the ?Kendall? Club. So eventually he was picked up when the war started and he was interred in Santa Fe, New Mexico. INTERVIEWER: When he was picked up, how was the family informed? Did they come to the house or somewhere else? ICHIKAWA: Yes. They---first, the FBI came to the house and they tore the whole house apart looking for things. They couldn’t find anything, but since he was very prominent in (inaudible) and ?Kalua? that they picked him up and eventually sent him to Santa Fe. But after he was picked up, we never saw him because I tried looking for him, I went to Honolulu, I stayed two weeks trying to see if I could meet him. I had no luck. So we never saw him. Once he was picked up, we never saw him until he came back from Santa Fe. INTERVIEWER: When did he come back from Santa Fe? ICHIKAWA: After the war ended. Well, I’m going to get into my father’s (inaudible)later on. INTERVIEWER: OK. Let’s go back to your childhood again, your life with your parents. Was your father Issei or Nissei? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: He was Issei. [00:08:00] INTERVIEWER: Where did he come from? ICHIKAWA: He came Hiroshima prefecture, Japan. INTERVIEWER: When did he come over? ICHIKAWA: Oh, I have the dates at home but [laughter] I can’t do---oh, I think he was around 20 when he came. When he was interred---I know he died when he was 82, but I can’t remember the date. I have everything written down at home and . . . INTERVIEWER: What do you know of your father’s background? Why did he come to America or to Hawaii? ICHIKAWA: I understand he was a go-getter and he didn’t want to stay on the farm. They had a rice farm and he said to his older brother, “You take the rice field. I’m going go to Hawaii.” [laughter] And that’s how he landed in Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: And how many siblings did your dad have? ICHIKAWA: From the adopted family? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, your adoptive family (inaudible)--ICHIKAWA: I had two older brothers. INTERVIEWER: I’m sorry, your dad’s family, how many siblings did he have? ICHIKAWA: I really don’t know. I know he had a brother in Japan, but he was the only one in Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: And when he first came over, what did he do? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 51 �I don’t know. [laughter] I know when I was a child that he had a small sort of (inaudible) firm and then he was delivering ice [00:10:00] to different people. Then he stopped delivering ice and he became vice president of this bigger company and he sold his small company and went into this bigger company and he became the vice president. INTERVIEWER: Share with us, if you would, a memory you have of something special that you did with--ICHIKAWA: With my father? INTERVIEWER: With your father. ICHIKAWA: I love flowers and plants and he did too, so we used to go to the mountains and pick up pine trees and bring it home and plant it and we tried to shape it into like a Bonsai. He had around 10 of them, and I just loved plants and he did, too. So got along fine going up to the mountains to find some pine trees. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Is there something else, another memory of your dad that really stands out in your mind that kind of illustrates the kind of person he was? ICHIKAWA: Oh, he was nice when he was nice, but he was very, very strict. And if I wanted to do something, I have to get his OK, I’ll tiptoe around him for weeks so that he’ll say OK when I ask the question. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: That was a lot of future planning. ICHIKAWA: Yes. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: You said you had two other siblings? ICHIKAWA: The real ones or--INTERVIEWER: No, in your adoptive family. ICHIKAWA: Two older brothers. INTERVIEWER: And what are their names and how much older are they than you? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: Oh, they’re all dead now. They were quite a bit older. One was Yoshito and one was Hiroshi. [00:12:00] And they were quite a bit older and I guess my mother couldn’t have any children, she wanted daughter, and so they adopted me. INTERVIEWER: OK. Now the two brothers, were they adopted as well or birth--ICHIKAWA: No, no. That’s my father’s real . . . yeah. INTERVIEWER: Children, OK. Were they close enough in age to you that you got to know them and interact with them or were they really too--ICHIKAWA: No, because when I was around eight, my older brother married and my second brother must have been---he must have been about 15 years older than me, so actually I didn’t really get to know them too well. They had their own things to go do and I was a little girl, I used to stay at home and [laughter]. INTERVIEWER: Let’s talk a little bit about your mother. What do you know of where your mother’s from? ICHIKAWA: My mother is from Yamaguchi prefecture. She was an excellent seamstress and she had a dress-making shop and she also taught girls how to show. She had a little dress-making school and she was the best mother anyone could have. All my friends envied me. She was the best mother. So if there’s a problem going on in high school, she’ll sew a pretty dress and she’ll hide it and the day before, she’ll bring it out. Here it is! [laughs] INTERVIEWER: And what’s your mother’s full name? ICHIKAWA: It’s ?Kuni Ogiri? Yamamoto. [00:14:00] INTERVIEWER: Tell us---describe her for us physically and also her demeanor. ICHIKAWA: Oh, she was---she had a nice sense of humor and she was a little (inaudible). She wasn’t fat, but she wasn’t skinny. She was a very handsome woman. INTERVIEWER: About how tall was she? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 51 �She was maybe about my height, about 5’. INTERVIEWER: And was she kind of humorous or more reserved? ICHIKAWA: Oh, she was---she was funny. She was quiet in a way and yes, she was very funny. She would come out with funny things and make me laugh or make the whole family laugh. She was---I haven’t seen a woman like her in my life. She was excellent. INTERVIEWER: How about cooking? How was she as a cook? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: How was she as a cook? What kind of meals did she make? ICHIKAWA: I guess all right! [laughter] I loved her cooking! INTERVIEWER: That’s good. What in particular did your really enjoy of meals that she had? What were your favorite meals? ICHIKAWA: I wasn’t fussy. I just loved food. [laughter] I still do. INTERVIEWER: Share with us a moment about your mother that you kind of cherish. ICHIKAWA: Well, when I was around eight years old, I remember she would be sewing at night and I would sit behind her, I get her comb and I would comb her hair. She had long, long hair. I used to comb her hair. I loved doing that. And I think about it all the time. [00:16:00] I think of her long hair and I remember combing her hair. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What was something---you actually already mentioned something about her dress, but give us another example of something special that she did for you. What was something---you actually already mentioned something about her dress, but give us another example of something special that she did for you. ICHIKAWA: My mother? INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 51 �Yeah. ICHIKAWA: (inaudible)---If I made my father mad, she would try to help me do things so that my father will not get---he’ll say, “OK, you may go” or “OK, you may have this.” She was---she was very supportive. INTERVIEWER: Who was in charge of discipline in your house? ICHIKAWA: My father. [laughter] That’s why when I had to have a date and he said no, so I would just tiptoe around him to be good, you know? I was a good girl for a whole week so that I could go on dates. I wanted to go out to the dance and . . . [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What was the family religion? ICHIKAWA: Buddhist. INTERVIEWER: And was this something that the family was Buddhist, but didn’t necessarily attend services regularly or did you attend services--ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---weekly? ICHIKAWA: As I said, my father was the president of the Men’s Buddhist Association, so . . . INTERVIEWER: What were his duties as being head of this Men’s Buddhist Association? What did that entail? ICHIKAWA: He was the president and I really don’t know what they did. The men got together and decided things for the church or the temple or whatever and . . . INTERVIEWER: You said he also had an association with kendo dojo? ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: And [00:18:00] was he a kendoist or was he administrative? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: I don’t---I don’t know really because I never really paid attention, but I think he was more---he was a head of a kendo club and they had young boys come over and, you know, play their kendo and I don’t think he took part in any of the actual kendo. INTERVIEWER: OK. What kind of activities would you do as a family together? ICHIKAWA: Well, not much because my father was a very busy man and he goes to this meeting, that meeting and so my mother and I used to just stay home and we got together and did outdoor things, so. There wasn’t much you could do in those days. No big malls to go to and we just hung out around the house. INTERVIEWER: How about for entertainment? What kind of things would you do for entertainment? ICHIKAWA: I belonged to the Buddhist Club and we used to go camping and go picnics, those sort of things. There wasn’t much you could do those days. INTERVIEWER: And these are activities done with girls your own age? ICHIKAWA: Ye[s]---oh, usually about high school age. Maybe 8th grade, 7th grade. INTERVIEWER: What memory do you have of going to movies or concerts in your early days? ICHIKAWA: My father used to go to [00:20:00] a Japanese---they had a Japanese movie I think once every two weeks and naturally it didn’t interest me, so I would just go to sleep and I remember coming home almost around 8:00, and I didn’t want to walk, so he’d carry me on him by piggyback and people would say, “Look at her (inaudible), it’s touching the floor! You carrying a big child like that on your back!” [laughter] And I used to hide my head because I was embarrassed. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Do you remember going to---or going to a movie, how much it cost? And what would you see? ICHIKAWA: I think it was around 15 cents. [laughter] That was---after all, I’m 90 now and it used to be about 15 cents for the children, and adults were 25 cents. The reserved seats were 25 cents. INTERVIEWER: What was the name of the theater? ICHIKAWA: It was Koloa. Koloa. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: And when you went in to see a movie, you know, nowadays you pay $12, you get to see one movie. What did you get your 15 cents in this--ICHIKAWA: One movie. [laughter] They only showed one movie and that’s it. INTERVIEWER: And did they show a cartoon or newsreels? ICHIKAWA: Newsreels. You’ve seen those old newsreel? That’s what we saw. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What was your favorite films? Who were the stars of the day that you enjoyed? ICHIKAWA: Norma Shearer and (inaudible). They were very popular for those days, so. Clark Gable and I don’t know. [laughter] [00:22:00] INTERVIEWER: How big a role was the radio in your house? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: How big a role did the radio play in your house? ICHIKAWA: Let me tell you, we didn’t have electricity until I was eight or nine years old and we didn’t see any radio until I was about eight years old. Someone had a radio and we all ran to the house and we put our heads on the window sill and we listened to the radio. And later on, people (inaudible), but no electricity until I was eight or nine years old. INTERVIEWER: And when you went over to that neighbor’s house who had the radio, what kind of shows would you listen to? ICHIKAWA: Oh? INTERVIEWER: What kind of shows would you listen to? What were the things on the radio that interested you? ICHIKAWA: I don’t know. I can’t remember. Just---I can’t remember. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: It was just exciting to hear--ICHIKAWA: Yeah. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: ---voices come out of it? Now would you describe that first house for us? Describe the rooms, the size of the place. ICHIKAWA: Of the what? INTERVIEWER: The---your house. Your first house that you remember. The size of the place. Describe it. ICHIKAWA: As a child, I can’t remember. All I remember of the first house was rolling down the steps, falling down. But later on we moved to a house that was originally a garage and it was huge because my mother had a sewing school, so . . . I think our house was about, about four times the size of this room. INTERVIEWER: Four times? ICHIKAWA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: So [00:24:00] what was that, maybe about 100 feet or something? This seems to be maybe about 25 feet long, so--ICHIKAWA: It was a huge---it wasn’t built as a house. It was a garage and then it was (inaudible) house, so it was very inconvenient. INTERVIEWER: When you say that it was a garage, was this like a car repair place or an actual parking garage? ICHIKAWA: I think it was a car-fixing garage, I think. I’m not sure because when I moved here, I was around five so I think (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: And now that place originally didn’t have electricity? ICHIKAWA: No, the whole island didn’t have electricity. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: And how about hot or cold running water, plumbing, those kind of things? ICHIKAWA: We had plumbing, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Did you have hot and cold running water? ICHIKAWA: No, no. And so we had to boil all our water and to take a bath, they---maybe you’ve heard about this ?ofido?? INTERVIEWER: Explain what that is, please. ICHIKAWA: They had a---I don’t know what it’s made out of, but you burn wood under it and you heat the water and they have a little shack like (inaudible), and then we’ll scoop the water out and wash ourself and then go in it. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: So describe the bath itself. What’s it made out of? ICHIKAWA: I think it was made out of wood. Wood outside and something else. You know, I never as a child never bothered to think about those things, but it was maybe about five, four . . . [00:26:00] Maybe about four by four square, so it---one, two, three, four---it bathed four of us when it was . . . INTERVIEWER: So this was a soaking tub then? ICHIKAWA: What? INTERVIEWER: A soaking tub? A tub to soak in? ICHIKAWA: Yeah, yeah. But it was usually too hot, so my mother used to have a little tub on the side and she’d put some water in, then she’d put me in there. [laughter] It was very, very crude. [laughter] I don’t think you can imagine what we went through. INTERVIEWER: And this garage that you moved into, what was the material? What was it made out of? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 51 �Wood. INTERVIEWER: How long did you live there? ICHIKAWA: In fact---maybe about---until I went overseas to get a job, so I lived there for about 20-odd years. INTERVIEWER: When---during those early years, what was the racial makeup of your neighborhood? ICHIKAWA: There were lots of Filipinos and a few Portuguese. There were lots of Filipinos that came to work in the cane fields, but there were lots of Japanese too. INTERVIEWER: How about Caucasians? ICHIKAWA: Not too many. Just the heads of the sugar plantation and maybe about 10, about maybe 20 families? [00:28:00] And we used to call them haoles, you’ve heard of that. The Portuguese and the people---Spanish, were not considered haole. I don’t know why. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: How did everybody get along? Were the haole families, did they interact much with the other families or was it really supervisory and . . . ? ICHIKAWA: I guess in our days, they all sort of---the Orientals, the Japanese stayed together, the Chinese stayed together, and the Hawaiians stayed together. The haole sort of (inaudible) with the different people, but when I was (inaudible), when I was around with the grammar school, we all st---the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, you know? INTERVIEWER: Where did you go to grammar school? ICHIKAWA: In Koloa. INTERVIEWER: And describe that schoolroom. Was it a one room building or--ICHIKAWA: Oh no, no. It was a big school. We had up to 8th grade and we had two classes of each. Two 8th grade, two 7th, so it was a fairly big school. INTERVIEWER: And for each of those classes separate classrooms? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: The 8th grade had A and B class. The A group were the smarter ones, the B class was the---I don’t want to say. [laughter] You know, they had A and B schools at classes. INTERVIEWER: Yeah and--ICHIKAWA: Then after grammar school, we went to another town, in ?Ka Lahui? that had a high school and all the island people came together [00:30:00] to this high school. INTERVIEWER: And so that high school, how many grades were there? ICHIKAWA: Four. INTERVIEWER: So 9th through 12th there? ICHIKAWA: Mm-hmm. INTERVIEWER: OK. When you were growing up in this grade school, what was the name of the grade school? ICHIKAWA: Koloa. INTERVIEWER: Koloa? And what were the subjects that interested you? ICHIKAWA: [laughter] We had different teachers for different subjects, so I don’t know. I wasn’t fussy, (inaudible). [laughter] INTERVIEWER: How about during the time period at Koloa grade school, who may have extended themselves a little bit more in the way of teachers or an employee at the school to reach out and kind of lend you a guiding hand or to show a kindness to you? ICHIKAWA: No, not really. It was---everybody friendly. Nothing, you know---we didn’t have---we had no trouble. No prejudice, nothing. So everyone went to school happy, you came home happy. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What kind of games did you play? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: I love dolls. I used to sort doll clothes and changing and---we used to have a group of girls that go to different homes and we play with dolls. This is a (inaudible) doll, this is a momma doll, this is a baby doll. [laughter] I guess I’m a dress-maker’s daughter, so I love to sew doll clothes. INTERVIEWER: And how about any activities, sports? What kind of sports did you participate in? ICHIKAWA: [00:32:00] Nothing much. I liked---the Buddhist clubs had once a year, the whole island would get together for meets and Koloa was in, and I was a very fast runner so we all came home with the first place in the relay and that made my father real proud. [laughter] Little things like that made them happy. It was really a nice happy place, not like now you have to worry about this, worry about that. A very dull life. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: When you moved onto---oh, actually I want to go back to your parents a little bit. ICHIKAWA: What? INTERVIEWER: I want to go back to your parents a little bit. ICHIKAWA: Uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: What language did they speak at home? What language did they speak at home? ICHIKAWA: Japanese, and part English. They call it pidgin English. INTERVIEWER: Were they pretty good at pidgin English? ICHIKAWA: Oh yes. Oh yes. INTERVIEWER: Did--ICHIKAWA: My mother spoke a better English because she dealt with Caucasians, you know, non-Japanese a lot because of dressmaking business. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 51 �And how about your father? How proficient was he with English? ICHIKAWA: He was pretty goo[d]---well, for a first generation he was pretty good, but I have to tell you. One day he was supposed to stop and this is a main road. He stopped and there’s a car coming, he went out, and the car hit him. It was a Catholic preacher and he---this is kind of embarrassing [00:34:00] because he says, “God damn you!” He says, “Why don’t you stop!” [laughter] And that was a joke that went in the family for years. Imagine saying that to a preacher! [laughter] And we told him, “It was your fault, not his fault!” Well he says, “But I stopped.” [laughter] He was funny in a way. INTERVIEWER: What kind of holidays did you celebrate at home? What holidays did you celebrate at home? ICHIKAWA: Christmas, birthdays, New Year’s. Just about everything we do now. INTERVIEWER: How about holidays that we’d consider to be Japanese holidays? ICHIKAWA: I can’t think of anything. INTERVIEWER: Which was the most important holiday in your home? ICHIKAWA: New Year’s. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Why is that? ICHIKAWA: [laughter] I don’t know. I guess because my mother made all those goodies and they went all out for New Year’s, so New Year’s is the most important celebration for us. INTERVIEWER: What kind of preparations would your mother? ICHIKAWA: Oh, all things. Anything Japanese that you have right now people do, like sushi and chicken, fish. INTERVIEWER: What would she make for New Year’s that you might not see the rest of the year? ICHIKAWA: What? INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 51 �What would she make special for New Year’s that you might not see for the rest of the year? ICHIKAWA: I kind of followed her tradition and I have New Year’s every year at my place and I invite around 50 people, so I kind of follow her tradition. INTERVIEWER: What special food [00:36:00] might she prepare for New Year’s that she wouldn’t prepare for the rest of the year? ICHIKAWA: She made---she was a good cook and she cooked a lot, so---and my father loved eating, so we pretty much ate the things that she made New Year’s (inaudible) off and on. INTERVIEWER: What was your favorite holiday type of meal, something that you really looked forward to? ICHIKAWA: At that time? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. ICHIKAWA: Christmas. INTERVIEWER: In the way of food? In the way of food. ICHIKAWA: In the way of money. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: So was that common to get a little cash gift at Christmas? ICHIKAWA: I don’t know about other people, but I did. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: [laughter] How much did you receive during Christmas? ICHIKAWA: Maybe about $2? [laughter] It was big money at that time. INTERVIEWER: Great. When you went to high school, what was that transition like to go from this local school and now you’re going to the (inaudible)? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: Oh, well the high school was in another town and we had no transportation, so somebody would donate their car and we would all a mo[nth]---how much a month, I can’t remember---to go to school in that private car. That’s what I did for four years. INTERVIEWER: And you said that someone would donate a car, was that car basically rented or did a person chauffer, basically, all the kids? ICHIKAWA: Somebody owned the car and their son would drive the car to school and we will [00:38:00] pay them so much a month to ride in their car. INTERVIEWER: How far away is the (inaudible) from your home? ICHIKAWA: Oh, about eight to ten miles I guess maybe. No not (inaudible). Yeah, about eight miles I think. INTERVIEWER: What was that like to see all these other kids going to this one school? ICHIKAWA: Oh it was great, you thought we were---we thought we were old. Oh wow, we’re going up, you know? [laughter] INTERVIEWER: How did your interests change in the way of subjects? Is there a particular area that you were really interested in now in high school? ICHIKAWA: Not really because after high school, I wanted to go the University of Hawaii. My father sent me to Japan and that’s where I picked up my Japanese, so that I got the job there. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Do your---while you were going to school, how about Japanese language school? Do you--ICHIKAWA: We went to Japanese language school after the grade schools, up to 8th grade. INTERVIEWER: And was that something that you were doing on a daily basis or on--ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---a weekend? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: Monday to Fridays. INTERVIEWER: How long would you go for? ICHIKAWA: Maybe about an hour. INTERVIEWER: How were you as a student there in Japanese school? ICHIKAWA: I was pretty good, good grades. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What can you tell us about the types of stories that they used to teach you language in the way of either Japanese history [00:40:00] or folklore to teach you values? ICHIKAWA: Mostly learning to read and write, I guess. We didn’t (inaudible), there’s not much they can teach you. So it was mostly reading and writing. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember any of the stories? ICHIKAWA: [laughter] As I said, my mind is getting a little hazy. INTERVIEWER: So let’s see. When did you graduate high school? When did you graduate high school? ICHIKAWA: You know, I can’t remember. 196 . . . INTERVIEWER: Is that ’36? ICHIKAWA: Nineteen thirty-six, yeah. Yes, about that time. About that time. [laughter] [sirens in background] INTERVIEWER: We’ll wait for that to go away. OK. Now you said that you really wanted to go to University of Hawaii. You said you wanted to go to the University--ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 51 �Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---of Hawaii but your dad had other plans for you. What were you hoping to study at the University of Hawaii? ICHIKAWA: I was interested in homemaking, so I was going---taking up that line and he says, nope, nope. I was a very unhappy child. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What did your dad state as a reason for sending you to Japan? ICHIKAWA: Well, he tell [me] I was a tomboy, and sending me to Japan, he thought I would be like the old Japanese girls, you know, with a smile up with my (inaudible) [laughter]. Not that, “hahaha.” [laughter] So, but I didn’t change. I came back the same way he sent me out. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: And how long were you in Japan for? ICHIKAWA: Four years. [00:42:00] So I think he was a little bit disappointed. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Who did you stay with in Japan? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: Who did you live with in Japan? ICHIKAWA: Relatives. I went to school and stayed at a dormitory for ye--four years. INTERVIEWER: And were these cousins or grandparents or aunt and uncle? ICHIKAWA: It was an uncle. INTERVIEWER: What was your first reaction to Japan? ICHIKAWA: I said, “Oh my God!” [laughter] I was very, very unhappy. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 20 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: Actually before that, how did you get there? How did you get to Japan? ICHIKAWA: To Japan? On the bo[at]---those days, they had this ?tiamaro? or something in Japanese boats that---I don’t know, I can’t remember what---I really--INTERVIEWER: How long did it take you to get there? ICHIKAWA: Gee, it must’ve taken about over a week I think. INTERVIEWER: And how was the cruise? How did you fare on the ship? ICHIKAWA: I think I was more anxious to see the boys than the food. [laughter] I don’t really remember what we ate. INTERVIEWER: And was it comfortable--ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---on board? ICHIKAWA: Mm-hmm. INTERVIEWER: Going back to Japan now, that shock of being there. Even though you were familiar with the language, what was the most difficult thing to get used to? ICHIKAWA: Reading the kanji. And I remember the first test I had there, I did not---it was an English te[st]---no, it was a math test and I couldn’t read. He had it on the board, so what I did was for one hour I copied all the questions [00:42:00] with no answers and I handed it in and she gave me “A” for effort and tried to read Japanese! [laughter] I thought, gee this is easy. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What were the living conditions, the home that you now moved to? How did it differ from what you were used to? ICHIKAWA: Which home? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 21 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: The home that you were living in in Japan with the uncle. How is that different from what you were used to back in Kauai? ICHIKAWA: I adjust to things so I don’t really remember. INTERVIEWER: Did they have any, I don’t want to say tradition, but any practices about the way that you conducted yourself in their home as opposed to the way that you did it in Kauai? ICHIKAWA: Well, my mother was---she was very high on manners. I was a tomboy, but---to a certain extent, I was a tomboy, but I tried to act the way they wanted me. I’d be polite and all that. So it was no hardship for me. INTERVIEWER: How about culturally, what did you learn about the Japanese culture and what kind of either training or classes did you take? ICHIKAWA: Well I did what they wanted me to do, but when I’m out of their sight, I did what I wanted to do, you know? [laughter] [00:46:00] INTERVIEWER: The type of expectation your father had of the woman he wanted you to become--ICHIKAWA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: ---what kind of things did he want you---type of classes that he wanted you to take? Did you do any dancing or painting, or? ICHIKAWA: Well, he wanted me to do---I took---he wanted me to take piano lessons and I’m tone deaf and I told him that I didn’t want to learn piano and he insisted, so I went to take the lesson and the teacher had a little stick and she’ll hit my hand. And after a month, I said no, no more. I told my father, “I’m not going to go back to piano lessons.” I can’t even sing, I can’t write a tune. “There’s nothing you can do about it?” I said no. I was pretty stubborn, too. That’s one of the reasons why I guess he sent me to Japan. He thought I would come home real, “Yes, father,” you know? But I think he was a little bit disappointed. INTERVIEWER: And how about any artistic forums, either painting or ikebana or any of that? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 22 of 51 �Yes, I took ikebana and I took tea ceremony. In fact, I have a little thing that I can teach ikebana, but I’ve never done any and now it’s all out---I can’t, but allowed to put flowers in vases and things. INTERVIEWER: What was the best part of your experience in Japan? [00:48:00] ICHIKAWA: Nothing good. [laughter] I was very unhappy. INTERVIEWER: The town that you were in, what was the name of the town? ICHIKAWA: In Japan? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. ICHIKAWA: Hiroshima. INTERVIEWER: Oh, it was Hiroshima. ICHIKAWA: Hiroshima City. If I was there, I would’ve been caught in the bomb. INTERVIEWER: What was the---how much did you actually travel around the city itself? ICHIKAWA: Oh, I traveled quite a bit. I love to travel so every chance I had, I would. We had to go out in threes from the dormitory and we would go out and we’ll---you know, we didn’t care where we went, not like the Japanese girls. So one day we went out into an alley and we saw these pictures of a beautiful woman and we look and say, “Oh! Oh! Oh!” And a man came out and he threw the salt at us and we looked at him and it was a prostitute. [laughter] And we weren’t allowed to walk in there because---[laughter] so he threw white salt at us. [laughter] So we hurriedly ran out of the place. INTERVIEWER: And so throwing it at you was--ICHIKAWA: At us, at our foot. It was white salt. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: And what was the symbolism of the salt? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 23 of 51 �I really don’t know why, but I think it was something to ward off whatever (inaudible) [laughter]. INTERVIEWER: But you got the message. ICHIKAWA: Yes! [laughter] We hurried, like we ran out and said “Uh-oh!” Because looking at the girls, we knew they were not regular girls. INTERVIEWER: OK. And the girls that you went on this little adventure with, were they other girls from Hawaii also? ICHIKAWA: One was from Hawaii, one was from [00:50:00] California. INTERVIEWER: OK. What was their names, do you remember? ICHIKAWA: Lost track of them. INTERVIEWER: OK. Were these girls that you would adventure of with, were they people that you maintained contact with for quite a while? ICHIKAWA: After the bomb, you know, I lost complete contact because mail was kind of hard at the beginning. INTERVIEWER: Now you seemed like a little bit of a renegade so I want to ask you, did you ever take up smoking? ICHIKAWA: No. No smoking, no drinking. Nice clean life. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Did you ever travel off of the Japanese islands onto the mainland, Manchuria or any of those areas? ICHIKAWA: No. INTERVIEWER: What do you remember about the fact that Japan had already made incursions into Korea and into the Manchuria area? What do you remember about news of those war efforts? ICHIKAWA: I don’t---let’s see. In those days, nothing. (inaudible), we weren’t interested in those things. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 24 of 51 �How about anything that you may have seen in the way of military personnel? Was it common to see soldiers in uniform around Hiroshima or..? ICHIKAWA: I had a cousin that was a colonel and my husband and I went to see him and [00:52:00] he was booted out of the army because he thought Japan was wrong. He said Japan shouldn’t be in China. Japan shouldn’t have been in war with the US and all of that, so they booted him out of the army and then I lost track of him. INTERVIEWER: And so when he got booted out, that was during the time you were there? ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: OK, so before 1940 then? ICHIKAWA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. What do you recall of any rationing if that took place or things that were difficult to get because of materials that needed to be donated to the war effort? ICHIKAWA: (inaudible) INTERVIEWER: So you had your four years in Japan. Whose decision was it that you would be coming home? ICHIKAWA: My---oh, well, they say war is going to come. The rumors in Japan, oh we’re going to have war with the US so you better get home if you---the US consulate says, you better go home, so we were all---so you should’ve seen when we came home on a ship, there were lots and lots of boys, young men and young lady, you know, around the twenties. INTERVIEWER: What was the mood when you---who did you actually first hear that statement that, you know, there’s a possibility of war between Japan and America. Who told you that? ICHIKAWA: That was a rumor in Japan. The consulate says, you better go home. They all sent us letters saying you better go, so that’s the reason why we all left. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 25 of 51 �[00:54:00] Who do you remember talking to about those rumors and that possibility? When all those people that you saw, you know, students your own age coming back, were people talking about the idea that--ICHIKAWA: No, we all had a ball! [laughter] We were all in our early twenties and we all had a ball! We didn’t care if the war started or not! [laughter] Those carefree days. INTERVIEWER: When you came back to Hawaii and you came home to Kauai? ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: What was your--- you mentioned here your dad sent you off because he was expecting to have you all polished up and be this submissive woman and dainty. What was his first response? ICHIKAWA: He didn’t say much. INTERVIEWER: And how was your reception at home? ICHIKAWA: Fine. I picked up where I left off with friends. INTERVIEWER: How about your mother? ICHIKAWA: (inaudible) INTERVIEWER: How often would you write? ICHIKAWA: Write to? INTERVIEWER: To your mom, your parents? ICHIKAWA: Gee, I don’t know. Maybe once a week? I was lazy, you know? To this day I’m still lazy. [laughter] I hate writing letters. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 26 of 51 �Now that you’re back in the Hawaiian territory, how much did you hear about the stateside rumors of the possibility of the war and maybe, you know, any [00:56:00] recollection that you have of that discussion taking place at home. ICHIKAWA: No, I don’t recall anything because the war was a surprise to us. When we heard about it Sunday morning, we said, “Is this really true?” You know, we couldn’t believe it. INTERVIEWER: How did you hear it? How did you hear about it? ICHIKAWA: Radio. We all look at each other and says, “Is that really true?” And they kept on saying, this is true, this is not a---this is true, this is true, you know? INTERVIEWER: We gotta stop the tape there and change out. See, the first hour is already gone. Tell me about December 7th, 1941. What’s your recollection of the way that day started? ICHIKAWA: Oh, we---I was going someplace in the car and we heard about it and we all look at each other and says, “No, it can’t be true.” But they kept on saying, “This is not a practice, it is true.” So we got home and turned on the radio, we all sat there. All day long we sat there listening to it. And that night, we had to, they say, blackout. INTERVIEWER: What was your parents response to hearing the news? ICHIKAWA: They were really, really worried. They were very, very unhappy. After all, they were in Hawaii for many, many years and to them Hawaii is home, so they were really disappointed. INTERVIEWER: [00:58:00] How often would they correspond or keep contact with family over in Hawaii, I mean in--ICHIKAWA: My father? INTERVIEWER: Yes, in Hiroshima? ICHIKAWA: I don’t---not that often. I don’t recall because he didn’t have any brothers, just nephews, so I guess they weren’t that close. INTERVIEWER: What was the immediate effect on your family as far as, you know, now the bombing at Pearl Harbor has happened, what was the impact on the neighborhood? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 27 of 51 �Oh, there were rumors saying if you have anything that’s like swords and pistols and Japanese photographs of military, says burn it or hide it or throw it away. So we went through all our photos and threw them away because my mother’s relative was in the army, and her nephew was in the army, you know, the colonels and her brother was a major and so they just burnt all the pictures and my father---I don’t know, I don’t think he had any guns. He had some swords, but I don’t know what he did with them. INTERVIEWER: How about the reaction from---you said there were Portuguese and Filipinos in the neighborhood. ICHIKAWA: Mm-hmm. INTERVIEWER: How did they react to you being Japanese? ICHIKAWA: In Hawaii, you know, we’re all---it’s not like stateside. Everybody’s just sort of meld together and [01:00:00] we all got along well and there was no difference (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: How about any activity in the way of police or FBI coming around to people’s homes? ICHIKAWA: I don’t think they went to too many homes. I think in Koloa, maybe my father’s home was about the only one that I know of and he was picked up. INTERVIEWER: What did they do when they came there? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: What did they do when they came there? Who actually came to your house? ICHIKAWA: They didn’t say, they just walked in and---about four of them came in and they started going through each room and throwing things out. They didn’t say one word to us. We didn’t know who they were and we just sat there and watched them throw things out of the closet and going through things and---but my father had already burned lots of pictures, Japanese military, relative’s pictures so they didn’t find anything because we had really nothing to hide. INTERVIEWER: Did these men, were they in uniforms or were they in regular clothing? ICHIKAWA: They were regular suits. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 28 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: OK. And what do you remember, anything of them showing badges or any guns out? ICHIKAWA: I wasn’t there when they first came in, so when I came home and found them going throw things, I was shocked but my father says they were FBI. He says that’s all right, you sit there. So I sat there, I watched them go through things. It was so scary and worrisome. We didn’t know what they were going to do. INTERVIEWER: And [01:02:00] when they left, did they leave on their own or did they take anyone with them? ICHIKAWA: They left on their own. They didn’t say one word. They didn’t say thank you or nothing. They just left. They just looked at us, so we went back and put the things away and . . . But they went through everything. INTERVIEWER: That kind of a shock and that kind of an invasion of your privacy--ICHIKAWA: Well, you know, in those days, if anyone came in and did that, especially the FBI, you just sit there and watched them. INTERVIEWER: How did you feel about what took place? ICHIKAWA: I was just worried for my father. I was really, really worried for my father because he was the only man in my hometown and so I was really, really worried. And then a few days later, they came and picked him up. INTERVIEWER: When they came for him, were you home? ICHIKAWA: No. That’s why they took him and they put him in jail and they put him on trial and one of the Caucasian big men, he was a fan of my father and so he appeared in court and he says, “I’ll vouch for this man.” He says he’s no spy or---he said, you know, (inaudible) he said. They wouldn’t release him. And then they send him to Honolulu. We didn’t see him after he was picked up. I went to Honolulu and my father---I said, “I’ll come out and see what I can do.” And he sent a cable saying don’t come out, stay home. But I went out anyway [01:04:00] and I was out there for two weeks trying to find him, see where he was sent to and what he needed, but I had no luck. I never saw him until he came back. INTERVIEWER: So when did he come back? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 29 of 51 �He came when the war ended. And the reason why, this is what I was going to tell you about when they recruited me. Shall I go into the---? INTERVIEWER: Sure. ICHIKAWA: I was walking home---no, I was walking back to work after lunch and a Jeep stopped on the side of this (inaudible), he came out and he said, "Are you Mildred Yamamoto?" So I looked at him and said, oh what does he want? What did I do? I said, “Yes.” He says, “Well, can you read this for me, please?” He didn’t explain anything, he just says “Can you read this for me?” He opened the book and I looked at him and I read it. “OK, now translate that for me.” So I translated right on the roadside. He said, “OK, you’re in.” I said, “What do you mean I’m in?” He said, “We're offering you a job.” He was a very, very cold man, and I said, “What kind of a job?” He said, “We need interpreters and translators.” He said, “Will you take the job?” I said, “Well, if you send my father home from Santa Fe, I’m willing to go.” He says, “Oh yes, we’ll get him out.” I say OK. Nothing in writing, dumb me. And he says “OK, you’re hired.” He says to go to such-and-such building in Honolulu, room number something, in two weeks time. I say OK. That’s how it was and I even paid my way to Honolulu. You know, thinking back, I was really, really dumb. I paid my way to Honolulu [01:06:00] not knowing really what was going to happen. I went to the building and the room and here I walked in and there are 12 of us. We all look at each other, all strangers. It was a big, big room with a couple tables and chairs, so we all introduced ourselves. We say, what are we doing here? Nobody know. Twelve of us. For two weeks, we went there everyday not knowing what we were doing and then one of the girls said, "Here are some books we should maybe start reading and brush up on our Japanese," but (inaudible) and yak, yak, yak for about a month. Then, they sent us to Central Post Office in Honolulu to send some mail and we sent some mail and in two weeks, the war ended. Then they said, OK, now get ready, get your shots, get your uniform. You’re going to go overseas. I said, where? You’re going to go overseas. We didn’t know where we were going to go. So they gave us all the shots for overseas. They put us in a woman works uniform and (inaudible) as a second ?lieutenant? with no boss, just a ?US on it?. But we had an officer’s uniform, officer’s (inaudible) and in the end of October I think, they said, "OK, you’re all ready to go. You’re going to go to Japan." They put us on a military transport and we went to (inaudible) with engine trouble---no, we left (inaudible), [01:08:00] we were on our way to Saipan. We had engine problem, went back to (inaudible), picked up another plane or I think it was, then we went to Saipan, spent a night there and then---spent a night and a day, and then we went to Tokyo and we got there in the middle of the night, about 11 o’clock, dark, and the truck was there to pick us up. They didn’t know where to take us. They didn’t know who we were. What were we doing there? So they took us to the Grand Hotel, that’s the---I think it’s the majors and colonels were staying there. And they took us there and we stayed there and I remember the food they gave us, ?cold lamb? about 12 o’clock. [laughter] So we settled in and we were there for a whole week. Nobody knew what to do with us. And finally they move us to the woman’s billet. And then they tell us, well you’re here to censor mail and newspapers, radios. In other words, we were attached to the CCD---Central Censorship Department. And I was sent to the Tokyo Main Post Office and we had to set up censorship there and we had one man and one---(inaudible) other woman and a man, and we had around 20 Japanese working, going through the mail and if they found anything, they had to [01:10:00] write up a comment on a p[aper]---and give it to us and we would go through those comments and if we thought it was important, we would send it to different principality of (inaudible). And I did that; that This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 30 of 51 �was my job. Some of the others went through the radio, magazines, newspapers, so I don’t know what they did, but I was in the mail censorship ?part?. INTERVIEWER: What was an example of types of things that you have censored? ICHIKAWA: Well, they wanted to know if somebody wrote anything bad about the US government or if some soldiers did something bad someplace and they wrote about it, then we would know about it, we’ll go and check on that. Things like that---or something that was against US. Anything that they thought was useful to the operation, so . . . INTERVIEWER: What was---if this applies, what was the most interesting bit of information you came across? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: What was the most interesting bit of information you can across to your recollection? ICHIKAWA: I think the one in Honolulu was the most interesting. [laughter] ’Cause when I censored the mail in Honolulu, the GIs were not supposed to let their family know where their next destination and some of the smart ones wrote every paragraph and the first one, “please”: that’s a P. And if it’s going to be---what word can I think of. (inaudible) the next one---they took the first letter and they spell out the word that was their destination! So we had to cross all that out or cut it out. It was (inaudible). And sometimes we had some [01:12:00] real hot, hot letters and a lady beside me said, “Are you married, dear?” And I said, “No.” “Oh, you poor thing!” I looked at her and said, “Why am I so poor?” And said, “Oh, you poor thing!” Well the letters that came through, I understood why she said, “Oh, you poor thing!” Some of the letters were awful! [laughter] But if a GI said they were unhappy or said anything, we would cut that out. INTERVIEWER: So even something just to state that they were unhappy was unacceptable? ICHIKAWA: We didn’t want the family to know that they were unhappy so we would cut that out. This was in Honolulu, but in Japan it was different. INTERVIEWER: How long---actually, when were you initially recruited? What was the date? Do you know? ICHIKAWA: I think around the middle of May in ’45. Let’s see, war ended in ’45. About the middle of May. INTERVIEWER: And how long did you keep your post in Japan? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 31 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: I think we were supposed to stay there two years and I got married and I got pregnant, so I quit my job. [laughter] And then we came home. INTERVIEWER: How is it that you met your husband what’s his name? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: How is it that you met your husband and what’s his name? ICHIKAWA: My husband’s name is Grant Ichikawa. I’m embarrassed to say how you met him. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: I’ll close my ears. ICHIKAWA: One day I was going back to work from the village after lunch, and I got on a bus and I happened to sit besides this Nisei officer. So I just sat there and he said, “Hmm. Stateside perfume.” And I looked at him and said, “Hmm.” And that was it. Then, my boyfriend’s girlfriend said let’s go on a double date. I said, “I have no boyfriend.” She said, “I’ll bring a friend.” And who do you think appeared? [laughter] This guy that said, “stateside perfume.” [laughter] I look at him and say, “You!” And he looked at me and said, “You!” [laughter] That’s how we met. INTERVIEWER: How was that first date? How did it go? ICHIKAWA: I don’t know. He didn’t impress me too much, I guess. I don’t remember. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What eventually did impress you about him? ICHIKAWA: Well, I didn’t invite him for the next one, but my girlfriend’s boyfriend came and he came along the next time, too. He kept on coming and we kept on seeing him! [laughter] INTERVIEWER: So it was more that he wore you down? ICHIKAWA: [laughter] No. INTERVIEWER: What did you like about him? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 32 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: He was very kind. He was very kind. INTERVIEWER: What kind of outings would you do? What kind of activities would you do when you went out dating? ICHIKAWA: We did go to the club a lot. Dancing, drinking. I didn’t drink, but he drank. And that’s about it, I guess. There’s not much you could do in those days. INTERVIEWER: [01:16:00] Who were the popular bands? Who were the popular bands? Who were you dancing to? What kind of sounds? ICHIKAWA: I don’t remember. [laughter] I don’t remember. INTERVIEWER: What do you remember of the condi[tions]---oh. Now you were posted in Tokyo, right? ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: What do you remember of the conditions there in Tokyo as far as the streets and the buildings? ICHIKAWA: Well, when we first got there, they took us on a tour and everything was flat. Then we got down and we walked around and all of the sudden, a little boy pointed us. He says, “Look!” You know, in Japanese he says, “Look! They’re bleeding blood from their fingernails!” We had red fingernails. And we all look at each other, we say, “No, no, no, no, no.” He said, “Yes, ew!” He says, “?That I haven’t seen?,” you know. So we thought that was kind of cute and funny. [laughter] That kind of lasted impression on me because after four, five years, they were totally---anyone paint their nails was American, I guess and they didn’t . . . INTERVIEWER: What did you notice about the condition of the people there? What did you notice about the condition of the people there when you got there, the civilians? ICHIKAWA: Oh, they were all poor. They didn’t have enough things. They needed sugar and things like that, you know. So whenever they invited us for dinner, [01:18:00] the rich Japanese---they had---we would take a little bag of sugar for them and they would be so happy. Things like that made them happy because it was very hard to get. INTERVIEWER: When you returned there, who of your relatives did you go visit? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 33 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: When my mother came to visit me, I took her down to Hiroshima to visit her family and they had---she said they had a little servant mentor that did things and he wasn’t all there, but he did all the little errands around the house and he was still there when my mother went there and she was so happy to see him. But he was really bashful. He wouldn’t talk to my mother. I’m sure he knew, but that’s about the only time I went to visit relatives. INTERVIEWER: The homes that you visited---relatives that you visited when you were staying in Japan during your four years, were they all still intact? Was anybody from your family caught--ICHIKAWA: No. INTERVIEWER: ---in the explosion? ICHIKAWA: No, they were all fine. INTERVIEWER: What was the condition of Hiroshima when you were---and actually, let me just clarify. Were your family members, did they live in town or on the outskirts? ICHIKAWA: The house was intact. They weren’t really in the city of Hiroshima, so. And my mother was from Yamaguchi, so [01:20:00] it was further south so everything was intact. INTERVIEWER: Going through---do you go on through the city itself to see what had happened or the effects of the bomb? ICHIKAWA: Did I--INTERVIEWER: Did you go through the--ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---city itself? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 34 of 51 �I had a girlfriend from Hawaii, she married a Japanese fellow, so I went to see her and I think I stayed a night with her and she took me to all the places and it was---it was really said. And she said, she was lovely, she said nothing happened to their family. INTERVIEWER: And this girlfriend from Hawaii, was she living in Japan at the time of the attack or did she--ICHIKAWA: Yeah, she married---she’s from Hawaii, she married a Japanese man so she stayed there and her house was intact, but all of her in-laws were living together with her. No privacy, you know? INTERVIEWER: And all these in-laws that came to live with them, what happened to their houses? ICHIKAWA: I don’t remember. INTERVIEWER: How long did your mother stay when she came to visit? ICHIKAWA: Who, mine? INTERVIEWER: Your mother. How long did she stay when she came? ICHIKAWA: I think she stayed about two or three weeks. There was a very interesting thing that happened while I was working for CCD. The minor officials of the embassies in Europe---I think the name of one was Switzerland and that area, they had come back and they came into ?Raga?, Japan. That’s I think is a little small part. And we were asked to go down with the nurses [01:22:00] to be as interpreters and help them searching for things. So they all stripped the women and we had to go through them, we had to tell them what to do and the nurses---and there was a little boy who would take his jacket off and we would open it up and he had around five wristwatches hanging inside his coat. [laughter] So we had to take that away because the---and we had to go through their lipstick with needles, pins to make sure there’s nothing there, no diamonds I guess. We went through everything and it’s really smart how some people hide things. I thought, oh! They’re really really hiding the money. INTERVIEWER: Give us examples of the way they hid things. ICHIKAWA: [laughter] They---I heard that some man had---you know one of those---like those handles? They had diamonds in there and they had re-sewn it I think. The men’s side said they found something, but on the women’s side, we didn’t find anything. We found American dollars. They had cash on them. It was---we felt sorry, but then we had to do things, so. I thought that was sort of interesting. I shouldn’t say I enjoyed it, but I thought it was in[teresting] . . . This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 35 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: What was the most difficult part of your stay in Japan this time of your military service? [01:24:00] ICHIKAWA: Since we speak Japanese, we can go out on the Japanese market shopping and so we didn’t have too much trouble. In fact, we enjoyed the tours there. I enjoyed going overseas there even if I didn’t speak the language there because I spent four years in Indonesia and I spent about 10 months in Saigon. I left about two weeks before Saigon fell. INTERVIEWER: I wanted to ask you about---actually, before you left Jap[an]---before you left Japan, you mentioned that you got married, what, six months after meeting? Is that correct? ICHIKAWA: Yeah, about six months. INTERVIEWER: What’s your anniversary date? ICHIKAWA: April the 2nd. We celebrated the sixtieth two years ago. INTERVIEWER: OK, so ’46? April of ’46? OK. And you mentioned that also you were pregnant? ICHIKAWA: After I got married. [laughter] Not before. INTERVIEWER: Let me re-state that. You got married--ICHIKAWA: [laughter] Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---and then you became pregnant? ICHIKAWA: Yes. [laughter] I think about four months after we got married I got pregnant. INTERVIEWER: OK, and so [laughter]---and so now did you give birth to your firstborn in Japan? ICHIKAWA: I lost the baby. I had a miscarriage. My second one was born in Japan in Hokkaido. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 36 of 51 �OK. And now when you---now [01:26:00] were you still in the military at the time that you had your second child? ICHIKAWA: Let’s see. I think he was out of the military. I can’t remember when he got out of the military. INTERVIEWER: No, I mean you. Were you still in the military at that time? ICHIKAWA: No. INTERVIEWER: Oh, OK. ICHIKAWA: I think, well [laughter]---are you recording this now? Can you stop the recording? INTERVIEWER: Sure. (break in audio) INTERVIEWER: So when---at the time that you got married, were you going to stay in the military as your career or were---did you decide--ICHIKAWA: I was going to stay, but then he was---then I got pregnant and was going to leave the military so I resigned and then I lost the baby and then we came home, so. INTERVIEWER: OK. Now you mentioned that you had uniforms and you and the US--ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---insignia, but no bars. ICHIKAWA: No. INTERVIEWER: What was your official status? ICHIKAWA: I don’t know. [laughter] They never called us anything. They called us by our names, so. [laughter] This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 37 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: What was the purpose for telling you that you had a second lieutenant pay grade, but no official insignia? ICHIKAWA: I really don’t---I think that [01:28:00] they expected to send us overseas before the war ended. This is what I think, but since the war ended---I don’t know why they sent us in uniform, but I think that was the reason they put us in uniform. They were going to send us overseas before the war ended then. INTERVIEWER: What kind of special training did you receive? ICHIKAWA: Nothing. We just roamed around the room talking and yakking and then we went to this postal censorship in Honolulu. I worked there for about three weeks and then we had to get ready to get updated with uniforms and shots and all. That took about three weeks, then we left Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: And did you receive any kind of---we hear of a lot of the guys get in the army, they get basic training. Did you get some kind of--ICHIKAWA: No, no. Nothing. INTERVIEWER: Who were some of the women that served with you? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: Who were some of the women that you went overseas with? ICHIKAWA: Oh, I think they were from all walks of life I guess. There were two Korean girls and one married woman and the rest were all single. And we really didn’t get that close for a group of 12 that received training, but we didn’t really do any training, but I don’t know. We just went our own way. Didn’t do much. INTERVIEWER: So there really wasn’t that much bonding between you? ICHIKAWA: No. Because when we went to work at the censorship, we all didn’t stay in one place; somebody stayed there and some of them, so---we go there work and go home [01:30:00] so you know, you don’t get to see them. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 38 of 51 �And when you went home, where were you going to? Were you--ICHIKAWA: I stayed with my sister-in-law in Waikiki, so--INTERVIEWER: Oh, OK. That was still in Hawaii. ICHIKAWA: Mm-hmm. INTERVIEWER: And how about in Japan? ICHIKAWA: In Japan we were in (inaudible) and even though we went to work with different places, we were busy doing all things and then after work, they were all having dates with these officers. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Who was the girlfriend and the soldier that she was seeing that introduced you to Grant? ICHIKAWA: She’s still alive. She’s in LA, and her name is Elaine Igawa. That’s her married name. Her husband has since died. He was Grant’s best friend, one of his best friends. So we got along real well. INTERVIEWER: Who were the other women that you served with in Japan? ICHIKAWA: The girl that sort of took care of things, she was one of my best friends, but she died early. She got married in Japan and about three years after she got married, she died of cancer. INTERVIEWER: What was her name? ICHIKAWA: Thelma ?Kuyizaki? INTERVIEWER: Ku-? ICHIKAWA: ?Kuyizaki?. INTERVIEWER: ?Kuyizaki? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 39 of 51 �Her husband had died a couple years ago. But the others, I know---I know of two or three that died. One has Alzheimer’s and I don’t know where the rest are. INTERVIEWER: I want to jump back in time [01:32:00] a bit. You said three days after the FBI came to your house, and this is in Hawaii, and went through your house and then they came back and took your dad. You had stated before that he was kind of a community leader and, you know, head of the kendo association or dojo there and--ICHIKAWA: And Japanese school, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Why were these things such a threat? ICHIKAWA: I don’t know. Well, I---anything that was kendo and judo and things like that were too Japanese-y maybe? I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: Who else in the community are you aware of that got picked up? ICHIKAWA: Just my father from Kaloa. INTERVIEWER: What was your mother’s response? That you and your mother alone there now, what was the reaction? ICHIKAWA: She was worried, but she was a strong woman. She felt I guess she had to hold the family together and we tried to help her too, and . . . My mother was a very strong person. She was very sweet, but very strong and people used to envy me because she was the nicest person. INTERVIEWER: To what extent did your brothers help once your father left? ICHIKAWA: Well, my brother was laid back. He didn’t do anything, so I was the one that had to run around and do things, try to find out things. So he gave me the money to do the [01:34:00] running around. INTERVIEWER: And how about the---now this was the younger of the two brothers? ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: And how about the older brother? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 40 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: He had already died. INTERVIEWER: Oh. What kind of contact were you receiving either from your father or were you able to---how were you able to communicate if at all? ICHIKAWA: We used to get letters. The sad thing about it is that we stored all the things in my husband’s brother’s barn and the kids got into and cut lots of the papers, so we lost a lot of papers, important papers and I have one letter from him from Santa Fe received by my uncle in English, but my father used to send me letters in Japanese and I used to write to him in Japanese. INTERVIEWER: The letters that you received from your father, in the same manner that you ended up working in the censorship bureau, what did you notice about these letters from your father? ICHIKAWA: It was a regular---they weren’t very strict. He wrote whatever he wanted, you know. He always was saying I’m healthy, I’m fine, take care of mother and, you know? Typical---and once he wrote it, he said he went---he loved to go pick up different shapes of stone, rocks and he made ashtrays and I guess he went too far away ad he said [01:36:00] a security guard with dogs came after him. [laughter] They thought he was trying to run away and I think that was the only excitement he had at (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: After his experience coming back from Santa Fe, what discussions did you have with him of that period? Or what occurred while he was in camp? ICHIKAWA: Well I was overseas. I didn’t see too much of him and then he had Alzheimer’s, so there isn’t too much that he could tell me. He didn’t want to talk about it in the beginning and then he had Alzheimer’s. He just---he says, “oh, everything was fine. Everything was fine,” you know? He just didn’t want to say anything, so I really don’t know what he went through because he---maybe nothing happened? I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: How long did---or when did your dad pass away? When did your dad pass away? ICHIKAWA: My father? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. ICHIKAWA: He came back when I was overseas. And then I saw him for a couple weeks, then I went back overseas. Then I came back a couple years later. We were only allowed every two years to come home and the second I came home, I noticed he had Alzheimer’s. And I asked him, “Do you know me?” And he smiled This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 41 of 51 �at me. I said, “Do you know my name?” And he smiled at me, so I don’t know whether he knew me or not. He just smiled, kept on smiling. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: [01:38:00] And did he stay with your mother at home until he passed away? What year was that, do you recall? ICHIKAWA: I think---let’s see, I was---I think we were in---I think we were in Hokkaido. It must’ve been---I can’t remember. My dates---my mind is slowly going and I can’t remember dates. I have it written down at home, but . . . INTERVIEWER: OK. Now you talked about living in different countries overseas. What countries have you lived in? ICHIKAWA: We lived in Tokyo, Hokkaido, Japan, Surabaya, Indonesia, Jakarta, Indonesia, and Saigon. INTERVIEWER: What was the most interesting places that you went to? What did you enjoy about these different places? ICHIKAWA: I think I enjoyed Indonesia. It was---it was real backwards, you know? In order to roast a turkey for Thanksgiving, we had to put charcoal in the gas oven because it wouldn’t cook to roast the turkey and we had (inaudible) stay one-and-a-half days on and one-and-a-half days off. And I remember the inspector general came to Surabaya. He brought his wife. He was on an inspection tour and he rated Surabaya the second worst place in the whole world. [laughter] But his wife said she enjoyed my lunch. I had to cook all her lunch over charcoal [01:40:00] because we had no gas, no electricity. It was off. It was . . . INTERVIEWER: So you had a gas oven, but no gas? ICHIKAWA: No gas. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What was the name of the general? ICHIKAWA: Pardon? INTERVIEWER: What was the name of the general? ICHIKAWA: Of the who? INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 42 of 51 �Did you say the general came to your house? ICHIKAWA: The general inspector. INTERVIEWER: Oh, general inspector, OK. What was his name? ICHIKAWA: I don’t remember. He said Surabaya was the second last place that he said was the worst place. But we really enjoyed Surabaya. INTERVIEWER: What did you like about it? ICHIKAWA: We liked the people. I really liked the people and I taught to the ladies’ club Japanese and I did volunteer work at the orphanage, played with all of them Mahjong. INTERVIEWER: How did you like the food? ICHIKAWA: Oh, the food was terrible. [laughter] One day I saw the maid cooking the---boiling the corn at 3 o’clock in the afternoon and I looked at her and I said, “No, no, no, no. You cook that about 10 minutes before dinner,” and she says, she told me something, she blurted off in Indonesian and I spoke a little bit, but at that time I didn’t speak enough. I couldn’t understand what she said, and I told her, “No, no, no, no. Twenty minutes before dinner.” And she’s spoiling this and says, “No, no, no, no.” So I just turned it off. And she (inaudible), cook that 20 minutes before dinner. And by then we couldn’t eat the corn. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: What happened to it? ICHIKAWA: It was so tough! She said, “You have to cook it for three hours.” [01:42:00] So from then on, I left all the cooking to her because---even the beef was---you couldn’t eat---well, it was . . . [laughter] But the corn was---the children says, “Mom!” INTERVIEWER: And how many children to you have? ICHIKAWA: I have two. INTERVIEWER: And what are their names? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 43 of 51 �My son’s name is Brian and my daughter is Lona. She was in the military and she was---I guess she was around 18. She was at a rebellious age and she joined the army and that worried me because in those days people were going to Canada and I thought, oh no, really she’s going to go to Canada. But she was sent to Germany and after she came back, she straightened out. She was---and she’s working for the government now. She’s a high school dropout and she just made 14, GS14. INTERVIEWER: What does that mean? GS14? ICHIKAWA: You know---I want to say that’s about the rank of about a---is it that a colonel? A colonel, I guess. So we’re proud of her. So she tells me, “Mom . . .” [laughter] INTERVIEWER: When was she born? ICHIKAWA: She was born in Japan. We adopted her in Japan and we got her from an orphanage and we went to pick her up. We saw one child on the deck. All the children---we brought a big, big cake and we saw one child lying on the fl[oor]---anyway, you know, having attention [01:44:00] and I look at her and I, “I’m adopting you. That’s her.” And it was her! [laughter] But she had a temper. INTERVIEWER: And how about your son? When was he born? ICHIKAWA: He was born in Hokkaido, Japan while we were stationed there. INTERVIEWER: What was his date of birth? ICHIKAWA: He’s going to be 50---he’s going to be 53 this year in November. So Grant and I, we always say, “What year was he born in?” We couldn’t even---forty--INTERVIEWER: Fifty-five, I think? ICHIKAWA: Forty-five or--CREW MEMBER: Fifty-five. INTERVIEWER: Fifty-five. ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 44 of 51 �Fifty-five. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: So at what point did you come back to the United States? ICHIKAWA: When? INTERVIEWER: When did you come back to the States to live? ICHIKAWA: To live permanently? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, permanently. ICHIKAWA: When we came home from Saigon. That was, what, ’75? I think Saigon fell in ’75? INTERVIEWER: And when did---you mentioned that you left just two weeks prior. Did Grant stay a little bit longer? Did you come ahead? ICHIKAWA: Yes. I left just two weeks---he almost didn’t make it ’cause they closed the---they evacuated the Americans. They closed the embassy gates and he was outside of the gate and we just (inaudible), you know, no one’s going to let him in. They were pushing all these Orientals away from the gate, but luckily there were some friends around, about four or five friends, great big Caucasian friends, you know, so they circle him and they just [01:46:00] push him in with them. That’s how he got into the embassy. Otherwise---and then left from the helicopter. But if they weren’t around, goodbye Grant. INTERVIEWER: And how is it that you just happened to leave two weeks before? What happened? ICHIKAWA: Well [laughter]---I’m summoned. I said, “I’m not going to leave you, I’m going to go home with you,” you know? He said when---because lots of the wives were going home with their husbands, they were being evacuated with their husbands, so I said, “Why can’t Grant be evacuated together?” So I said, “No, no, no. I’m going to stay and go home with you.” He said, “No, I think you better go home.” I said, “No, no, no. I’m going to stay here and go home with you.” But two weeks before then, they said “Milly, you have to leave.” So I left. INTERVIEWER: And at that time, even two weeks prior, was it pretty evident that it was foregoing? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 45 of 51 �My servants would run around, “Oh, the Viet Cong are going to come, Viet Cong are going to come!” All my servants, the women, they were all going like, “Is Viet Cong coming? Is Viet Cong coming?” So . . . INTERVIEWER: What was the mood of the people in Saigon? ICHIKAWA: I think they were worried because at least my servants were. I didn’t go out much then because it was getting a little---and about two weeks before I left, there was a bombing of the palace. I didn’t know where to hide. I tried to go under the bed, the beds were so low and no place to hide. And the servants was running around and then finally called the embassy and got hold of Grant, I said, “What’s going on?” He said, “Oh, don’t worry. He’s one of us.” I said, “What do you mean he’s one of us?” He said one of---[01:48:00] . . . soldiers--INTERVIEWER: Artillery or? ICHIKAWA: ---bombed the palace. I don’t know why he did that. Maybe he was one of the that was very unhappy I guess. So then, they said everybody must leave. All dependents must leave, so (inaudible). [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Now you were in Indonesia in kind of a time of turmoil also. ICHIKAWA: Yes! [laughter] It was Saigon, I mean they were (inaudible)---and they were---at that time, they were fighting the Malaysians and every night, you see this---what did we call that? I forgot. And we would call it and say, “Oh, how pretty!” INTERVIEWER: Was that the artillery going by? ICHIKAWA: Yeah. And we say, “Oh, how pretty!” And then they said, you know, people over there walking got killed and so from that day on, we stayed inside and the soldiers would be roaming around our yard having their exercise and whatever. But it was kind of exciting, I guess. If something happened, it wouldn’t be, but nothing happened so it was kind of exciting. INTERVIEWER: You talked about, you adopted your daughter--ICHIKAWA: Yes. INTERVIEWER: ---and earlier we talked about how you were adopted. At what point did you reconnect with your blood siblings? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 46 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: When I was in high school, my older sister found me so I was in touch with her since then and my younger sister, I met her when I was---I guess we were in our thirties. My sister told me her name and her address, so I called her one day on our way back from Japan [01:50:00] in Honolulu and her husband called, I answered and he says, “Oh, Patty has a cold. She can’t come to the phone.” So I told him, “I think I’m your wife’s sister.” He says, “Wait a minute! Wait a minute!” He called his wife. So we made a date to see her the next day and the first time we saw each other, we just looked each other. No emotions, we just look at each other and her adopted mother cried and cried and cried and cried. She was so happy and she was adopted by a very famous Hawaiian--part-Hawaiian, part-English woman and my sister is a very, very famous woman in Honolulu. She’s very famous in the hula community and they all call her---she works for the---her mother used to work for the Bishop Museum and she works there too. She’s trying to bring the Hawaiian language together, I guess. But they all call her “Mama Pat” and she’s---her name is Pat ?Bacon?, but they call her “Mama Pat” and she’s very, very popular. She works at the---what was that, Bishop Museum in Honolulu. She’s two years younger than I am. INTERVIEWER: And what’s the route of her popularity? ICHIKAWA: She learnt to dance hula and she’s supposed to be a hula expert, and now she’s trying to bring the Hawaiian language together in English. I don’t really understand what that means, but [01:52:00] evidently the people in the hula community, when you say, when you talk about Pat ?Bacon?, they say, “Oh! Mama Pat!” She’s very popular. INTERVIEWER: What is it that your son does, Brian? ICHIKAWA: My son is---let’s see, my mind goes. What is it called? They card that you---the children can put money in it, the parents can put---it’s very popular now. INTERVIEWER: What, ATMs or? CREW MEMBER: The phone card? ICHIKAWA: Huh? CREW MEMBER: Is it like a phone card or something? ICHIKAWA: No. Isn’t it awful? I can’t think of it. It’s becoming very popular now. CREW MEMBER: May it have something to do with at the airport? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 47 of 51 �ICHIKAWA: Yeah. CREW MEMBER: I saw it at Washington D.C. Airport. ICHIKAWA: Smartcard. INTERVIEWER: Oh. ICHIKAWA: Smartcard. See, my mind is going. He’s in Smartcard. INTERVIEWER: OK so yeah, things that you can use that’s credit in it so you can just--ICHIKAWA: Yeah, uh-huh. INTERVIEWER: ---pass by. Oh, OK. ICHIKAWA: Yeah, he goes overseas and he sells things for different countries. Airports and buildings, and . . . INTERVIEWER: So he gets to travel a lot like his parents? ICHIKAWA: Yes. We don’t travel much. In fact, he gave us the ticket to come here. [laughter] yes, he travels a lot. He goes to the Philippines and [01:54:00] France, England, Denmark. You know, just about goes all over the world, so . . . INTERVIEWER: What? Oh, sorry. (inaudible) CREW MEMBER: You got a couple more. INTERVIEWER: What values did your parents pass onto you that you hope you’ll also pass onto your children? ICHIKAWA: Family unity. That’s very important to us. And I tell my children, even if you aren’t rich, family is very, very important and I really believe in family unity. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 48 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: OK. On that note, I’m going to say thank you so much for--ICHIKAWA: Oh, thank you. CREW MEMBER: Can you ask if she knows anything about the (inaudible) program? They were the first so-called (inaudible), anything following that. INTERVIEWER: [To crew member] Yeah. [To Ichikawa] What knowledge do you have of the ?WAC? program? You were actually the first ?WACs?. ICHIKAWA: We were not the ?WACs?. INTERVIEWER: So they never gave you that status. ICHIKAWA: No. We were called DACs. INTERVIEWER: What did that stand for? ICHIKAWA: Department of ?Armored? Civilian. INTERVIEWER: OK. What’s your knowledge of the WAC program? ICHIKAWA: I don’t know. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Now did you ever receive any kind of GI Bill benefits? ICHIKAWA: No. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever ask or apply? ICHIKAWA: No. Well, we were civilians so . . . This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 49 of 51 �INTERVIEWER: OK. On that note, I really will say thank you. ICHIKAWA: Oh, thank you. INTERVIEWER: It was a pleasure talking with you. (pause) ICHIKAWA: Was that on the---? INTERVIEWER: No, we’re going to do it now. ICHIKAWA: Huh? INTERVIEWER: We’re going to do that now. What---when you went to visit family, how did they respond to the idea that you had this uniform on? You were in the army. ICHIKAWA: Oh, they thought it was great. They were very proud of me. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: How did other people respond to you in uniform? ICHIKAWA: I think that people were---they thought, oh Japanese---to them, I think they thought we were WAC’s maybe. They didn’t know the different and they were so proud to see an Oriental in a uniform, so we just--INTERVIEWER: And for the fact, you know, the fact that you’re female and in uniform, did it change the way they may have looked at you? How may that have affected? ICHIKAWA: No, they were really---they kind of honored me wherever I went. Especially being of Oriental, they thought, oh great. They were proud. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned an actual situation on a train. Could you tell us that story? ICHIKAWA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 50 of 51 �I was going down on the plane going to visit some of my relatives and I was on an express train and express train stations: Hiroshima, and the next one was Yamaguchi. [01:58:00] And I asked the conductor, “I want to get off at Otaki,” which is a very, very small station. And he says, “No, we can’t stop because this is an express.” I said, “Oh, so where should I get off then?” And he says, “Wait a minute.” And he went someplace, he came back, he says, “We’ll stop at Otaki for you.” So I got off at Otaki and the conductor and all the people were standing in line to greet me and here this little Oriental woman comes down the just looked at me and it bothered me and it bothered them and then I went off. [laughter] I don’t know what they thought about it. Maybe they cussed me after I left, but they were very, very polite. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Any other situation similar to that? What other occurrences happened that your uniform seemed to help you or give you some kind of privilege? ICHIKAWA: Really nothing special. They all loved---I don’t know behind the back, but they all seemed to have loved us because wherever we went, no problem. They went out of their ways to be nice. INTERVIEWER: OK. I think--END OF AUDIO FILE This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 51 of 51 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mildred Ichikawa oral history interview, July 6, 2008 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mildred Ichikawa oral history interview transcript [full interview], July 6, 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ichikawa, Mildred: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 51 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-07-06 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2008OH0894_T_Ichikawa https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/33cb4c588a7914ec131ed1d98b12be43.pdf 7e2c85f9de0880babf919392cc4c437c PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Goro Sakaguchi, September 12, 2006, Denver, Colorado CREW MEMBER: Today we’re interviewing Goro Sakaguchi, 442nd G Company. Interviewing is Joanne Leivici, video Robert Horsting, audio Gisella Shimabukuro. It’s September 12, 2006. We’re in Denver, Colorado. INTERVIEWER: OK. And can you tell me your father’s name? SAKAGUCHI: Father’s name was ?Katsube?. INTERVIEWER: What part of -- and again, what is your father’s name? SAKAGUCHI: Katsube. INTERVIEWER: And where was he from? SAKAGUCHI: He was from ?Goka?, Japan. INTERVIEWER: That was a good practice. Let’s try one more time. SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Your---I’m sorry. We’re just the Three Stooges here this morning---this afternoon. OK. Please tell us your full name again? SAKAGUCHI: Goro Sakaguchi. INTERVIEWER: And you were born when? SAKAGUCHI: July 2nd, 1924. INTERVIEWER: OK. And where were you born? SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 35 �Brighton, Colorado. INTERVIEWER: Please tell us your father’s name. SAKAGUCHI: Katsube. INTERVIEWER: OK. And what part---where was he from? SAKAGUCHI: Goka, Japan. INTERVIEWER: What about your mother? What was her name? SAKAGUCHI: Her name was ?Isano Takayama?. She come from the same place, Goka, Japan. INTERVIEWER: And where were they married? SAKAGUCHI: They were married in Seattle, Washington. My dad emigrated here first. He was in [02:00] Hawaii, on a plan---pineapple plantation, but he skipped that and came to---through San Francisco and got a job on the railroad track. And he worked on the railroad until they fixed him up with a bride from where he was from, which was my mother. And he went to Hawaii to meet her there, and then they traveled together to Seattle and got married. INTERVIEWER: Did they ever mention what they thought of each other when they first saw each other, since they were---this was arranged? SAKAGUCHI: [chuckle] Not to me, no. INTERVIEWER: And tell us---what was your father like? What did he look like? I mean, was he tall? Was he a big man? SAKAGUCHI: Father was short and stocky; very strong, and he was fairly strict, and he worked hard. I know many times we only had a single bottom plow, you know, which was pulled by horses, and there was a lot of times he’d [04:00] work pretty late at night and early the next morning so he could get everything plowed up for---?before the spring?, and, yeah, he was a hard worker. INTERVIEWER: And what about your mother? What did she look like? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: She was very pleasant. She was a hard worker. When---most of the time when---well, even when we were little kids, she’d be out in the field, especially in the summertime, to help in taking care of the crops, like the hand work, you know, like hoeing and thinning and stuff like that. INTERVIEWER: And then did she also do the cooking for the family? SAKAGUCHI: Yes, she did, until my sisters got old enough that she could---they could do some of the cooking. INTERVIEWER: And then she probably did a lot of the cleaning too? SAKAGUCHI: Oh, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Had to take care of the house for all of you? SAKAGUCHI: Uh-huh. Yeah, she---she was a hard worker. INTERVIEWER: Now, you said---you said your father was very---fairly strict. SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, he was fairly strict, but not where he’d always be down on us to---when we didn’t do something right. But he was strict enough to keep us in line. INTERVIEWER: Now, what about your mother---was she---did she---because usually the father in the family is--SAKAGUCHI: [06:00] Well, she wasn’t that strict, but she was kind of easygoing, yeah. But whenever we did something wrong, she’d let us know. And she was a good mother. INTERVIEWER: I know the mothers usually are the more tender side of the parent unit. Did your mother ever show you at any time, or maybe when you were ill, some special tenderness or something that you remember? SAKAGUCHI: Well, she---you mean, if she was really outspoken about her love for us? Is that what you mean? INTERVIEWER: No---no, like, I can recall with my mother that one time when I was very ill---because she was usually pretty tough with us too---she was by my bedside, and she was touching my head nicely. Did your This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 35 �mother ever do anything like that for you that you remember or any other kind of tender moment that you remember? SAKAGUCHI: No, not really. She never raised a hand to us. But she would let us know if we did something wrong, in so many words. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: OK. Thanks. Now, you have---you had quite a bit of children---your parents had quite a few children. Can you name all of--SAKAGUCHI: Yes. The oldest one was ?Kiosuke?. He’s---he was married to ?Katherine Miyoshi? from---they were from North Platte, Nebraska. INTERVIEWER: OK. And the next sibling? SAKAGUCHI: And [08:00] the next one was Miyo. She was married to ?Ben Miki?. They lived in Del Monte. INTERVIEWER: OK. And the next one? SAKAGUCHI: The next one, ?Shinpei?. He became a doctor during the war. Yeah, he started college before the war, and during the war he was still going to medical school. But he became a doctor soon after. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. SAKAGUCHI: Well, I think he became a doctor during the war, because I remember when I got discharged in Chicago, I guess that’s Fort Sheridan. He was---I don’t know what you’d call it, a pediatrician I guess. But anyway, he was a specialist, because the doctor that took him in after his internship, they would---like, if a child swallowed a ?pin? or something, they had a special thing that--INTERVIEWER: Yeah, right. SAKAGUCHI: ---if the pin was open they’d close it and bring it out. That’s the kind of work he did. I remember when I got discharged, they were going to---my sister-in-law was pregnant with her first child, and she was born. Let’s see, I got discharged [10:00] in August. She was born in November, I think. And when he retired, he moved back here with his family; but since then, he passed away, and then his wife passed away, and---well, before he passed away, his younger one was a son. He married a gal from---he was living in Alaska, I guess, and he met her up there, and he went to school in---Alamosa or someplace, or Durango, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 35 �and learned gunsmith ?stock? for the people that wanted it. And then they moved up to Montana, where his widow still lives and his one son they had. He’s married and has a child. INTERVIEWER: OK. And then after Shinpei, who was the next sibling? SAKAGUCHI: After Shinpei was ?Fujio?. She lives a few blocks from me. I go down there quite a bit. I do my laundry down there. [chuckle] And--INTERVIEWER: And after Fujio was--SAKAGUCHI: ?Keizo?. INTERVIEWER: OK. SAKAGUCHI: And, you know---Keizo, I don’t know if he told you, but when he volunteered for the service, he got---went to get his--INTERVIEWER: Do you know what? Let’s move this--SAKAGUCHI: Oh, OK. INTERVIEWER: I’m going to ask you about that a little later, OK? Keizo is also known as---what other name do we know--SAKAGUCHI: [12:00] Henry. INTERVIEWER: Henry. OK. Then after Henry was--SAKAGUCHI: Ryosuke. We called him ?Ray?. INTERVIEWER: Ray? OK. And then after Ray--SAKAGUCHI: Was me. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 35 �OK. SAKAGUCHI: My nickname is Goon. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: OK. And after you--SAKAGUCHI: Was ?Yae?, and then ?Toshie?, and then ?Masato?. He was the first one to pass away. INTERVIEWER: So that’s ten altogether? SAKAGUCHI: Ten, yes. INTERVIEWER: Wow. Your parents had quite a handful. SAKAGUCHI: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Now, growing up, did your parents keep in contact with any of their relatives in Japan? SAKAGUCHI: Hm? INTERVIEWER: Did your parents keep in contact with their relatives in Japan? SAKAGUCHI: Yes. Before the war started, my dad went back for a little while, partly business, I guess. And then---because he was the oldest one, and his folks had left some property to him, and he wanted to have one of the boys take over that property, and he had asked Keizo to, but Keizo was still pretty young then. He didn’t want to---he didn’t want it, you know? So my dad wrote back and hold him to have somebody else take it over. I think that’s the way it went. But-INTERVIEWER: [14:00] So now, growing up--SAKAGUCHI: And then my mother went back for a visit. INTERVIEWER: OK. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: Just before the war. We were worried that she wouldn’t come back because the war was---just before the war started, she got back. My dad had all of us write to our Congressman to, you know, help bring her back. I think she went to Korea, because I think she had a sister living there. She came back only about---oh, I don’t know. It seemed like it was pretty close. A week, maybe less than a week before Pearl Harbor. She barely made it back. INTERVIEWER: OK. Wow. Now, growing up in Brighton, did you go to school? SAKAGUCHI: Hm? INTERVIEWER: Did you go to school in Brighton, elementary school? SAKAGUCHI: Well, the first nine grades I went to Henderson, which we all started there in Henderson, except the oldest brother. He was born in Wattenburg, I think, and maybe the---well, they all went to Henderson, though, because I remember---?Miyo? was the second one, and she started school the year before Shinpeii, and he was smart. That’s why he became a doctor [16:00] and got up in the same grade she was. INTERVIEWER: And how did---how did you get to school every day? SAKAGUCHI: Walked. INTERVIEWER: And how far was it? SAKAGUCHI: A mile and a half, maybe. INTERVIEWER: How long did it take you to get to school, to walk to school? SAKAGUCHI: Oh, not too long. Maybe 15, 20 minutes. INTERVIEWER: And did you also attend Japanese school? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, we went to a Japanese school during our summer vacation, ?Promingley? School. But that was just--INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 35 �How was it? SAKAGUCHI: We had some good teachers. In fact, one of our teachers was MIS, and he was a lawyer, and he was pretty high up there when the war ended. And he had a pretty good job when the war ended. He stayed with them for a while. He married a local gal too. INTERVIEWER: So did---how were you in Japanese school? Were you very good? SAKAGUCHI: No, I wasn’t very good. [chuckle] I can’t remember some of the letters, you know? Well, it was a vacation for us. INTERVIEWER: You considered it a vacation? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: Well, it was summer vacation after all, so you were entitled to a vacation, right? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: Now, also when you were growing up, did you have to help out around the farm? SAKAGUCHI: Oh, yeah. We all---in fact---getting out of school, we did some work before supper. INTERVIEWER: What type of work? What did you have---what types of things did you have to do? SAKAGUCHI: Well, like I said, the [18:00] hoeing and the seasonal work, like thinning the beets and stuff, and cabbage---well, the cabbage was set out, but that was practically---setting out cabbage was maybe the end of the school year, but we---I know even harvesting beets was during the school, you know? And so we stayed home a couple of weeks to help cut them and haul them away. INTERVIEWER: How long was your---how long were your days typically? What time did you get up, and what time did you go to bed? SAKAGUCHI: Well, I can’t remember what time we got up, but it was--- This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 35 �INTERVIEWER: Early enough to help out--SAKAGUCHI: Fairly early, yeah--INTERVIEWER: ---before you went to school? SAKAGUCHI: Uh-huh. I remember we had a Model T truck, and the coldest days my dad would boil some water, and---of course he’d drain it every night so it wouldn’t freeze. In them days we didn’t have no antifreeze. And so he’d boil water to warm up the engine, and he’d get it started, and run it, and take us to school, especially if there was a hard snow and it was cold. But mostly we walked to school. INTERVIEWER: OK. [20:00] You mentioned the car. When did you learn to drive? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: When did you learn how to drive? SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I don’t know. We all took turns, even when we was young, say 12 or something like that. Because the Ford truck was---it was easy to drive because---well, we had a gearbox, but even without a gearbox, those old Fords used to have a brake on the right side and a clutch, and when you wanted to reverse you’d step on the clutch for---about halfway, and then you’d hit the middle pedal to reverse. INTERVIEWER: Oh, really? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember who taught you how to drive? SAKAGUCHI: My older brothers. INTERVIEWER: By your older brothers? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 35 �I know I was thrilled when I first got behind the wheel of a car. Were you excited about learning how to drive? Were you excited when you were first given the opportunity to learn? SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I don’t know. I guess maybe we was feeling pretty good about learning how to drive. But I can remember my sister before she was married, Fujio, she---my---Keizo told her we had an old Plymouth with a gearbox in the floor, you know, and he---he told her, “Now, let [22:00] out the clutch slow, and step on the gas.” Boom, she stepped on the gas too much and went right in the ditch. [chuckle] That was her first experience; but she drives pretty good. INTERVIEWER: OK. Growing up, which sister or brother were you closest with? Were you close to one of them? SAKAGUCHI: What? INTERVIEWER: Did you have a favorite sister or brother when you were growing up that you did things with or, you know, hung around with? SAKAGUCHI: Well, nowadays my favorite is Fujio because she’s the only one living around here, and--INTERVIEWER: But growing up, when you were young? How about when you were young? SAKAGUCHI: Well, my two brothers, Keizo and Ray, because we started school. They’d teach me some of the things at school. So, yeah, they were pretty good to me. INTERVIEWER: OK. Now in school, whether American school or Japanese school, did you have any favorite teachers or some teachers that were especially nice to you, that you remember? SAKAGUCHI: Well, my first and second grade teacher was my favorite, because---I didn’t get to see her before she passed away, but she must have been pretty close to 90 when she passed away a few years ago. But my brother Ray and my sister Fujio, they had found out where she lived, and they went to see her, to invite her to one of our reunions. [24:00] But, well, she said she’d make it at the next reunion, but she passed away before that. INTERVIEWER: And what was her name? SAKAGUCHI: Her name was Church. Ms. Church. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 35 �INTERVIEWER: And what made her so special to you? What about her was so special? SAKAGUCHI: Well, it was my first teacher; but she was good, you know? And she also taught all the classes what they called in those days penmanship, where you could write real good. Now I don’t write very good. But she taught us penmanship. All---she taught every class one period of penmanship. Even up to the eighth grade, I remember we was taking that. She was my favorite teacher. INTERVIEWER: Now, on the opposite end, was there any teacher that you thought just was terrible, or was mean to you? SAKAGUCHI: Well, there was one we used to kind of laugh at. My good friend ?Nobu? and Toshiro and I, because she was young and just got married---well, she had a baby boy or something, you know, and [chuckle] I think it was Nobu that told me, “You know, she’s got an extra pair of stockings in the library, and she goes and changes them once in a while.” [chuckle] They said, “Look through the key hole.” I wasn’t going to take no chances. INTERVIEWER: [chuckle] OK. So [26:00] you were---you were able to finish high school also, right? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. I went to high school starting my sophomore year, because---you see, in them days, before the schools all took in the smaller districts, like, Brighton now takes in all the way to about DIA, and they have a new high school on 120th between 85 and 76, Interstate 76. And there used to be a lot of small districts. [Alarm sounds.] So when we went to high school, the districts had to pay for our tuition to high school. INTERVIEWER: Excuse me; is that an alarm that you need to turn off? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. My alarm goes off. You guys hear it, but I don’t. Everybody else hears it. INTERVIEWER: You need to turn it off. SAKAGUCHI: It’ll go off. It’s off. INTERVIEWER: OK. Now, Is that a reminder to take a pill or something? SAKAGUCHI: No. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 35 �OK. SAKAGUCHI: Messing around, it just happened to be set at that time. INTERVIEWER: OK. So, now, in high school, or actually while you were growing up, did you play any sports, and what sports were they? SAKAGUCHI: No, I just took general education. Although we had a special class called ag class, because we got two credits for, because we were---had a [28:00] project, like, maybe raising a hog or some chickens or (inaudible). So we’d have two credits. We’d just about be in that class all year round, they called it. So we used to have two credits, which was---which helped me get through. One thing about grade school, it come easy for me, you know? And when we was going to graduate, the girl, she was a school board president’s daughter, and she was the only girl in that family. And everybody says, “Well, who finished first?” He wouldn’t say. He says, “It was close.” His name was Mr. ?Fagan?. Well, I don’t know why, but we all called him Fagan without the mister, but he didn’t mind it. He was a pretty good teacher. He was the only man teacher of the school, Henderson. I remember starting sophomore year, and the next year when I was a junior, there was a guy they called Goon ?Shober?. His folks run the bakery downtown, right? And he graduated, and when we was juniors, one of my good friends, [30:00] ?Seiji Koriyuchi?, he says, “You know, there’s nobody to call a goon here in town.” He says, “You’re it.” That’s why everybody knows me by Goon. Even she calls me Uncle Goon. When we got drafted, there was maybe three or four hundred of us from around here, and some from Wyoming, and some from Idaho and New Mexico and Nebraska and Kansas, I guess. But when we was all together, all the local guys knew me by Goon, so they’d call me that, and so everybody in the Army, you know, started calling me that. INTERVIEWER: Well, great. Now we know why--SAKAGUCHI: So I’m still called Goon. INTERVIEWER: ---and where you got that nickname. SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. So after you graduated high school, what did you do? SAKAGUCHI: Just worked on the farm---well, you see, when we was seniors, that’s when Pearl Harbor happened. And so---we didn’t have too much money, and I know we were still sending Shinpeii through college, because This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 35 �he wanted to be a doctor. And he was smart, and he took valedictorian when he graduated, and so we all stayed on the farm and helped [32:00]---and helped pay for his education. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: So where were you when you heard about Pearl Harbor? SAKAGUCHI: At home. Over the radio. INTERVIEWER: Over the radio? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. Of course, we didn’t have TV then, but--INTERVIEWER: Was it basically the whole family that heard this at the same time? SAKAGUCHI: Well, yeah, there was a few of us around. It was a Sunday, so most of us were home. And of course that Keizo, he’s the one that kind of built a radio from scratch. INTERVIEWER: That’s Henry? Is that Henry? SAKAGUCHI: That’s the one we heard--INTERVIEWER: That’s Henry? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, that’s Henry. INTERVIEWER: So he had built the radio that you had at home? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. He---yeah, I remember---in fact, there was a man that had a garage that we all used to go to in Henderson, and he’d let Keizo fiddle around with some old radios, and he’d fix them, and so the neighbors liked him, you know? But that’s where he learned most---a lot of his---that’s where he got interested in it. That’s why he volunteered to get into communications someplace. INTERVIEWER: So what was your family’s reaction when they heard about Pearl Harbor? SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 35 �Well, there was, I guess, some reaction, but my dad and mother, when they heard about it from the older brothers, I don’t know what their reaction was. But I suppose they felt [34:00] pretty bad. INTERVIEWER: And what was your brother Keizo, Henry’s reaction? Did he---what did he do after he heard about Pearl Harbor? SAKAGUCHI: He decided that he’d volunteer to protect the oldest brother, because he practically was running the farm with the dad, so he wouldn’t have to go in. He wouldn’t get drafted. So he volunteered, and he got into what he wanted, communications, and not only communications. He wanted, I think, to be in the artillery. And he took his training in Fort Leavenworth, and that’s where they took him from to join the 5-5-2. INTERVIEWER: So your brother, Henry, decided that if he volunteered, then his older brother would not be drafted? Is that the idea? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. That was the main thing, I think. INTERVIEWER: So he kind of sacrificed himself? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. Mm-hmm. INTERVIEWER: For his brother and for the family, basically? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. He was pretty good about that. INTERVIEWER: So what was your family’s reaction when they heard that he volunteered? SAKAGUCHI: Well, I don’t know. Well, I thought it was a pretty good deal, because that saved the older brother---oldest brother. Of course, the second oldest was going to school to learn to be a doctor yet, so I thought it was---he did pretty--INTERVIEWER: Oh, so it just wasn’t---the oldest brother was [36:00] taking care of the farm, running the farm--SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: ---and then the second brother was the one in medical school? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. Mm-hmm. INTERVIEWER: So he figured he would volunteer to protect both of them, right? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. Well, I think they exempted people going to college, you know, then---even then. And although my---after he was---in fact, after we came back, I think it was about the---maybe the Korean War, or I don’t remember which one, but he volunteered to put in his---when they’re officers two or three years or something. And he was a commander, they called it. I guess that’s the equivalent to major in the Army. I think he was stationed in San Diego all this time. INTERVIEWER: Now, after Pearl Harbor, living in Colorado, your family was not subjected to a relocation camp, but what did you know about those relocation camps? Did you have any idea about them? SAKAGUCHI: No. There wasn’t really anything, because---most of us were friends with everybody around there. And the only thing I heard after the war from my oldest brother and my brother-in-law who was married to---who was married to Fujio, and a [38:00] guy by the name of ?Tom Fitzgerald?, those three were pretty good friends. And I heard from one of them that there was one of our---oh, maybe he lived a couple of, three miles away, but we knew of him; and in fact, do you know Bob ?Sekata?. INTERVIEWER: No. SAKAGUCHI: Well, he’s a big farmer around here. And in fact, he bought half of that guy’s farm, and ?Petrakos? bought the other half or something like that. But he’s the one that they said talked against us, you know. And he himself was German. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: Now, you had---you had told me something about three families from California contacted your father to live with you? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. They didn’t know father that well, but they were from---they called it “?mura no? (inaudible),” you know, same village, and one family had the mother and father, and there was three girls and four boys. We fixed up our old labor house and cleaned it up and fumigated it, and put some wall board up and divided it into a couple more rooms so the girls could live in one and the parents live in one and the boys, and there was---there was four boys. [40:00] But they didn’t live there too long, because they all---I guess they disliked farming. Most of them found jobs in Denver. Through the war most of them worked in Denver. INTERVIEWER: So where did they come from? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: They come from Alameda. INTERVIEWER: California? SAKAGUCHI: And there was one family that---well, it was a widow, and his daughter was---daughter and son, and his daughter had just had a baby boy, and her husband and her young brother drove a pickup with their belongings to the farm. And then there was another family that they lived in the same little house in the back that we fixed up. They had---there was a mother and father and one boy and one girl. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the family name? SAKAGUCHI: The family name was ?Mori?. Yeah, Mori. And the family that had the baby boy was---the father’s name was ?Kajiwara?, and she was married to--- [chuckle] oh, boy. [42:00] Anyhow, he ran a flower shop in Alameda, I guess. But it was through his father-in-law that my father knew him, so that’s why they moved into the apartment. INTERVIEWER: And I should have asked you. Do you remember the names of the other families that came through that your father helped? Can you tell me their names? SAKAGUCHI: Well, like I said, the ?Umenes?. Their name was Umene. They had seven children. And the father’s name was Kajiwara, and the boy’s name was Tom. Her name was Marge, and his name was Bob ?Mizoguchi?, and then the other family, that boy and girl, was named Mori. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. And then you got---you got a letter from the U.S. Army? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: You received a letter from the Army, calling you to service at some point? You got drafted, didn’t you? SAKAGUCHI: Well, I got discharged--INTERVIEWER: No, no, no, no. That happens after you go into service. I’m talking about the beginning. SAKAGUCHI: Oh. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 35 �INTERVIEWER: You got drafted. SAKAGUCHI: Oh, the beginning of the service? INTERVIEWER: Yes. SAKAGUCHI: Well, like I said, see, there was about 300 of us around here, like Wyoming and Idaho, and in about a week they sent about half of them to a place called Fort Blanding in Florida. INTERVIEWER: OK. Hold on. We don’t even know about your being in the service yet. SAKAGUCHI: Oh, before the service? INTERVIEWER: Well, no. [44:00] How did you get into the service? SAKAGUCHI: We---I was drafted, me and my brother. INTERVIEWER: About the same time? SAKAGUCHI: At the same time, yes. I remember when---I guess it was the second morning, a big old corporal, he was taking roster, you know, and he’d holler out s name, and somebody would holler here, and when he got to ours, well, he looked at it, and he said, “?Sawachi?.” He got red in the face. He hollered it out. My brother Ray, he was standing up front. He says, “Pardon me, sir, do you mean Sakaguchi?” And he looked at it. “Maybe I do.” [chuckle] But that was--INTERVIEWER: And then he named---then he read off two names? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Then did he name off---read off two names? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. He called---and then he had to call---first he had to ask Ray his name. [chuckle] But mine, the English-speaking people, they right away say Goro, you know. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 35 �INTERVIEWER: So did both of you end up going to the same place? SAKAGUCHI: Yes. INTERVIEWER: OK. SAKAGUCHI: We went to Fort Shelby, Camp Shelby, and we were in the same company. And while we were taking training, there was a kind of an older guy than us. They moved our cots apart and put another cot there, because his name was Sakaguchi. [chuckle] And he was a little older than us. [46:00] I’d say maybe ten years. But right away, within a week, he was gone. They sent him to Minneapolis for MIS, and he wrote us one letter saying, “They made me a sergeant because I became a teacher.” INTERVIEWER: And what was his name? SAKAGUCHI: He was---his name was Sakaguchi. I can’t remember his first name. But I remember that. INTERVIEWER: How funny. SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: So you were---during Basic Training, you would see your brother every day? SAKAGUCHI: Oh, yeah, because we were in the same company. In fact, we slept next to each other, you know. Oh, I hated that when it became wintertime. It didn’t---well, it did snow one day. The ground didn’t get white, but we found out later, they said---the townspeople said, “This is the first snow in 20 years,” and we had to be in it. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: So what did you think---you and your brother think about Camp Shelby in Mississippi? You must have talked about it. SAKAGUCHI: When we was in training, hot---you just---and muggy. And the first week, you know, eating lunch, especially, sweat, you know, because it was humid. And when thing about being in the Japanese outfit, we had our rice. [chuckle] Even though we were in Italy, the cooks of every company always hunted for rice, [48:00] and we had rice when we come off the line. They were good about that. But like I was This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 35 �saying, you sit there and eat and sweat, you know, and you’d get your handkerchief out. Pretty soon it was soaking wet. Well, the heck with it. Let the sweat go down in the food. It’s salt, you know. [chuckle] So we’d just let it---let the sweat go. INTERVIEWER: Now, what about bugs? SAKAGUCHI: What? INTERVIEWER: Bugs. Were you bothered by the bugs there? I heard there were something called chiggers? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, there was some chiggers. They’d get under the skin a little bit, but if you got some special stuff, they’d come out right away. They wasn’t too bad. There was---that’s about the only thing---only bad bug there that I can remember. INTERVIEWER: So what kind of training did you have in Basic Training? What kinds of things did you do? SAKAGUCHI: The usual riflemans’, and every---there was what they call a battalion. There was a headquarters. A company, we were in B Company, and C company. And always in a battalion, D Company was heavy weapons. Like, they called it heavy weapons, because they had the 50mm ---- 50-caliber machine guns, and 80mm, [50:00] what they called---what do they call it? Anyhow, you put the shell down, and it goes way up in the air. Mortars. And they had the big one, but every company had, their fourth squad was the heavy weapons squad. They carried 30 mill 30-caliber machine guns, and 35mm mortars. INTERVIEWER: And what did you learn how to use? SAKAGUCHI: I was a rifleman. I was 2nd Platoon. INTERVIEWER: And what type of rifle was that? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What was the rifle that you learned house to use? SAKAGUCHI: We learned the M1. They were used, but we had to shine them up. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 35 �What did you think of the M1? SAKAGUCHI: Very good. Very good. And the whole trouble was, when we got to---we were the second to the last replacements, and when we got there, the sergeant said, “We’re out of M1s.” So they gave us World War I thirty-aught-sixes, with the bolt action, you know? And we had to clean the cosmoline off, and learn how to shoot them, because we learned with the M1. [chuckle] But that was---that was just a little while. We didn’t carry them up when we joined the front. INTERVIEWER: So after Basic Training, where did you go [52:00]? SAKAGUCHI: Well, after---we got a furlough, what they call a furlough. Two weeks. Just before Christmas---well, I think we was home for Christmas. But when we got back, January 1st, they had the Sugar Bowl, which was just a little ways away in New Orleans, and there was Camp ?Roar? was just a little farther away. Well, they was going to let half of them go to Camp Roar, the people who knew anybody there and wanted to go. And so I signed up for the football game. So for some reason they called off the ?roar?, and they had a redrawing, and that was my luck. I was outdrawn. I stayed home New Year’s Day. Well, not home, but at camp. INTERVIEWER: So during---you were given---was that the only furlough that you were given? SAKAGUCHI: Yes. INTERVIEWER: OK. So then from Basic Training from camp Shelby, where did you go? SAKAGUCHI: We went through---let’s see. I remember we went to---I forget what the name of that place is. Newport News or something, right outside of us in Washington, D.C., [54:00] in Virginia or someplace. Anyhow, it was cold and snowy, and we stayed a couple, three days there. And then we took a train up to Camp Shanks, New York to get prepared for boarding the ship. And we had a couple of days, so my brother and I asked if we could go visit some people we know. By then Bob Mizoguchi, see, he had moved to New York. And so the lieutenant, he says, “Yeah, go ahead,” so we got the pass. We didn’t know how to get there, so we called a taxi--INTERVIEWER: Go ahead. SAKAGUCHI: And I think he took us through Central Park, the roundabout way. But he finally got there, and when we got up there, we didn’t see Bob, but his brother-in-law Tommy was there and Marge and the baby. And they had just had a fire in the apartment, so they were kind of in straits. He was working. But then Tommy took us down to the subway, and he says, “I’ll take you up to the Empire State Building.” Well, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 20 of 35 �we got there too late. It was closed. They wouldn’t let us go. So he got us on another subway, right to Camp Shanks. And we were back there before midnight. INTERVIEWER: Did you have much of a chance to---other [56:00] than the Empire State Building, the outside of it, did you see any of the rest of the city? SAKAGUCHI: No. INTERVIEWER: That was it? SAKAGUCHI: We saw Central Park. INTERVIEWER: OK. What did you think when you saw those tall buildings? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What did you think when you saw all of those tall buildings? Did you think, “Wow, this is a huge city”? SAKAGUCHI: Well, yeah. You’d get a sore neck looking up. [chuckle]. I don’t know. It wasn’t too much. We did see Times Square, which we watched that moving message around that news building and stuff like that. There wasn’t too much to see at that time, being the war. I remember one day in Camp Shanks, Joe Lewis came to visit us. He was champ at that time. INTERVIEWER: How exciting. SAKAGUCHI: You could tell he was kind of rusty, because you know how they do that double fist on that punching bag? He’d miss a lot. [chuckle] END OF AUDIO FILE 1 BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO INTERVIEWER: So in New York---in New York, you caught a ship? You got on a ship to go to Europe? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. We was on a pretty big liner that they converted for a troop carrier. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 21 of 35 �INTERVIEWER: What was the name that you called it? SAKAGUCHI: I’m pretty sure it was the Lusitania, but I can’t remember for sure. But the Queen Mary was docked in New York when we were leaving, and they said it was going to leave the next day. And when we got to Glasgow, Scotland, the Queen Mary passed us and docked one hour ahead of us. And when we landed in Scotland, we got on the train going through London, and I remember the train stopped at some street for some reason, and we were all looking out, and one of the Londoners---I guess he was a Londoner--- he says, “What are you?” And somebody says, “We’re American Indians.” [chuckle] I don’t know if he believed us. And from there we went to---from London, we went to Southampton and got on a small ship and landed at ?Lyons?, France. Which was---the wharf was all torn up, and they had a makeshift wharf when we got off. And we had a couple of [02:00] 90-day wonders. You know about the 90-day wonders? They were second lieutenants that went through 90 days of training for officer, and they were lieutenants. It started raining, and they lost the way. One of us---one of the braver of us, marching up front, he says, “I don’t know. These officers, they get us lost. We’re walking through the rain.” We finally got there where we were supposed to be billeted to wait to get on the train to go south, and it was pretty lucky, because by then they gave us our first sleeping bags, just a wool blanket inside and canvas on the out. But, boy, we sure were warm that night. We was pretty happy. But it took us---we got on the train the next day, and it took us a couple of days to get to Marseilles and over to Nice, France, where the outfit was that they called the Champagne Campaign. They would get a pass down to Nice, you know. But we were new, so we never did get a pass. But---oh, they put my brother and me in different---we were in the same company, but different platoons. And when [04:00] they give us those aught--six rifles, they says, “We’re going to send you back to learn how to use these.” So when we went back to that little camp, some guy hollered at me. He was a 2nd luey. I guess he just got his battlefield commission, you know. And he hollered at me, and he says, “Hey, Sakaguchi, you from Brighton?” I says, “Yeah,” and I looked at him, and I didn’t recognize him, but he says, “I used to play baseball against your older brothers.” His name was ?Gyota?. Oh, man. He was---he made lieutenant, but after the war was over, he was pretty ornery. He drank quite a bit. But after he came back he had to quit because he had a bad ulcer. But he was a good guy. I really liked him. He---when he hollered at me---I didn’t really know him, but when he told me that he was from, between Fort Lupton and Platteville I knew where they lived, but it was the first time I ever knew him. I knew one of his younger brothers, but him I didn’t know. INTERVIEWER: So then after you learned how to use those World War I rifles--SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: After you learned how to use those World War I rifles---what were they called again? SAKAGUCHI: Thirty-aught-six. A lot of hunting rifles are called thirty-aught-six. INTERVIEWER: So after you learned--- This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 22 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, [06:00] after we learned, we got back to our own company. They issued us an M1. They got another supply, and we had to clean the cosmoline off. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: So where did you go from there? SAKAGUCHI: Well, after maybe a couple of weeks, they sent us to Marseilles. We got on a couple of small Liberty Ships and landed in Leghorn, Italy. And that’s where the regiment, including Cannon Company and Company of Engineers and stuff like that---but my brother Henry, the 5-2-2, they stayed in southern France. They moved up towards Germany. I don’t know if my brother said anything, but they were the first ones to contact that Dachau prison. But we was stationed just this side of Pisa---because when we were on that truck moving towards Pisa---well, the enemy was just across the Arno River, still in Pisa too, but---I nudged my friend ?Nobu? and says, “Hey look here. [08:00] We’re in Pisa.” He says, “What do you know?” The Leaning Tower, you know, sticks up there like a sore thumb. And we were on the beach. They bivouacked us on the beach, where the Arno River drained into the sea. I don’t know. We was only there maybe three days when they said, “Well, we’re going to push off.” And that’s when my brother---my sergeant says, “You go back.” Because they was ?overstrained? a little bit, you know, with all of us recruits being there. Because it’s no good for brothers to be in the same company, going up together. His sergeant said the same thing. And here we was, back in at what they called the provisional company. We became little bears and helping the ?Pisanos? lead the meals with supplies, wand I felt bad about that because there was one guy in our company. I told the sergeant, I says, “Send him back ,because he’s just had a boy when he’d been back on furlough. And he’s a proud papa, you know.” And I heard he got it about the second or third day. That made me feel pretty bad. INTERVIEWER: Now was he sent into battle? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Was your friend sent into battle, or was he just [10:00] killed by--SAKAGUCHI: No, he was--INTERVIEWER: How was he killed? SAKAGUCHI: His name was ?Kawano?. We knew the family. I didn’t know him too well until we were in Shelby, but I knew his younger brother and one of his sisters. But that made me feel pretty bad. INTERVIEWER: Do you know how he was killed? How was he killed? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 23 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: No, but I think---somebody says a bomb landed in his foxhole. INTERVIEWER: Now, so you said you were assigned to be a litter bearer? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, I was a litter bearer. I remember--INTERVIEWER: So did you end up going into the battlefields and helping carry the--SAKAGUCHI: No. We carried them back down the back part of the hill. I remember carrying that big old German down, and my buddy, he had the feet part, but the legs were (inaudible) hanging over, and his head was right below mine, you know, and he was breathing hard. And the Germans lived on sardine, you know. Oh, I almost burped in his face. Oh, my goodness. INTERVIEWER: You mean he was eating sardines? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: He was eating sardines? SAKAGUCHI: Well, see, they live on sardines. That’s their battle field mission--INTERVIEWER: Ration? SAKAGUCHI: Because they were in tins. INTERVIEWER: Oh. SAKAGUCHI: Oh, that smell got me. INTERVIEWER: I’m sorry---that’s pretty amusing. So you ended up carrying---you still ended up carrying wounded? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. We only did about maybe a [12:00] week to ten days, and (inaudible) pushing off from there that a lot of people got it, so right away we went back to our company. And the funny thing, all through the last campaign, I never fired my rifle once. But the first, oh, maybe the second day after I got rejoined, the This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 24 of 35 �platoon, the squad sergeant says, “Now, you remember this town, because we’re going to be liberating it,” you know? So some of us on the roadway, some of us on the field. And before we got maybe halfway through the town out of the hills, the whole town was on the roadway meeting us. Tedeschi. They they called the Germans “Tedeschi.” “Tedeschi ?tutta via?.” You know, they left the night before. So they was bringing out what they had there, you know, their wine. [chuckle] Something to eat, you know. But that’s really my first---first time I---well, you could say first week that I was back with the company. And after that the Germans started retreating, just going all up, [14:00] and I remember one time, our corporal, he found a truck, an Italian truck. He says, “Hey, we got a truck to ride up to”---of course, we had the Army’s trucks to take us up there, but we had our own truck, our squad. And we threw our gear on there, and we went all the way up to the border of France, right across the border, where we was guarding first in a a little town, and we stated there maybe two weeks, and we drove that car back, and it was our luck that we went back through the same town. An Italian man said, “That’s-a my truck.” [chuckle] The lieutenant made us give it up. But from there we went up to Milano, where they had a big airport, and it was that we---a lot of German prisoners were being processed there, and we was guarding the perimeter. I can remember being there. My---one of our sergeants, he had made battlefield commission, you know. He had his bars on for the first time. I happened to be on guard in front of the company headquarters, and in parade rest, you know, and when I saw him I snapped to and gave him a [16:00] snappy salute, and I says, “Congratulations, Lieutenant.” He laughed and he says, “Relax.” But he was good. I did see him when I---the first reunion I went to in Hawaii. INTERVIEWER: And we was his name? SAKAGUCHI: His name was ?Kanemoto?. He was becoming a lawyer when I saw him there. But I lost track of a lot of them. The last reunion I went to was in Reno, and of course there was Sergeant ?Shiraishi? and his brother. He was---I don’t know what he was in, construction or something. But him I knew, and ?Kingo Kotake?. I knew him, because he called me when he got in trouble when they were hauling cars. And he had a T-Bird. The last car he was going to deliver, and he went under a low underpass and wrecked that car. So they took him to the Ford place, and he called me from there. I picked him up and let him take a shower---because that’s when I was farming, maybe about 10, 50 miles from where he called. That’s when I got real good friends with [18:00] Kingo. He always did talk to me after that, you know. But I couldn’t remember him during the service, overseas. INTERVIEWER: Now, where were you when you heard the war ended? Where were you when you got the news? SAKAGUCHI: When the war was over in Japan? Oh, when---first, FDR died. We were Livorno, and we were still there when the war ended in Japan. INTERVIEWER: What was that like when you heard? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 25 of 35 �What was that like when you heard that the war had ended? What happened in the camp? SAKAGUCHI: Oh, everybody thought that was great, you know? But first, FDR passed away. That was kind of saddening, because---of course, he’s the one that did that order for internment. But you couldn’t blame him, really, because---sure, he was Commander-in-Chief, but his advisers, we thought---I thought anyway, made him put out that order. But I always thought he was a pretty good president. INTERVIEWER: OK, so after you heard that the war had ended, how soon did you go home after that? SAKAGUCHI: I was there another---almost another year. INTERVIEWER: Where were you stationed during that time? SAKAGUCHI: We were stationed in Leghorn, [20:00] guarding what they called ?Repo Depot?. They had Army supplies. One day a lieutenant, a young lieutenant, called about a squad of us to go to Foggia, which was across the boot from Rome. So we went over there and we had to---about every five trucks in line, you know, one of us would be in, and we stopped in Rome overnight, and then came in. I don’t know what was on the convoy. When we got back, a bunch of the guys that went over with us, like my brother and them, they were---we saw them, and they was getting ready to get on the ship. They were getting processed, and so we told that lieutenant, and there was a couple of us in that convoy. He made arrangements for us to get back to Foggia to get our papers. I remember we was on a DC-3 with the bucket seats on the side, you know. And I was right by a window, right over the [22:00] right motor. And oil was leaking out of that thing. I thought, “We’ll never make it.” INTERVIEWER: Where were you flying to? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Where were you flying to? SAKAGUCHI: We was flying to Rome. They had a big airport outside of Naples, between Naples and Rome. There we got on the biggest bomber they made at that time, the---what was it called? The B-25? And first the pilot made us all sit in line, you know, when he was taking off, and he says, “OK, you can stand up and look around.” And me, I was hanging on the side gun turret. And he made a bank, and I hit my head on it. [chuckle]. But we landed in Foggia, and I can’t remember how we got back. But we got back, and anyhow, we got back on the next ship. The ones that got home just before us, they’re the ones that marched in D.C. to get that last presidential citation from Truman. And we were the next ones back, coming home on an LSD? That was sure a lot different from the big liner we went over on. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 26 of 35 �INTERVIEWER: LSD stands for? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What does LSD stand for? SAKAGUCHI: LSD---no, not LSD. Liberty Ships. The ones---who was it---the Kaiser made his big money on, building those liberty ships. [24:00] INTERVIEWER: So where did you land when you returned? SAKAGUCHI: We landed in New York, Camp Shanks. And then from there they told us we was going to get discharged in Fort Sheridan in Chicago, because Logan was being cleaned up, being closed. So being in Chicago, my brother lived a few miles north in Milwaukee. INTERVIEWER: Which brother was this? SAKAGUCHI: The doctor. He was a doctor in Milwaukee. So when we got discharged, I---there was a couple, three of us going back to Brighton. I says. “You guys go ahead. I’m going to go see my brother.” “No, we’ll wait for you.” They thought they’d see Chicago a little bit. My sister-in-law was pregnant with her first child, who was born about three months after I was there. Dad bought one of the first, brand-new Oldsmobiles that they had released after the war. So he took me for a drive one day, and that was---we come back on what they called the Silver Streak. That was Burlington’s streamliner. I could just remember, early in the morning---see, that train was overnight from [26:00] Chicago to Denver. I can remember early the next morning, I told them guys, “There’s our road, right down there where we live.” They knew, too. We was very happy to get home. INTERVIEWER: And what was your family’s reaction when you got home, when they saw you again? SAKAGUCHI: Well, they put us to work. [chuckle] INTERVIEWER: [chuckle] OK. So you’ve returned home, and you were working on the farm again, huh? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. And, oh, I don’t know, after about three years I got married and started going to farm on my own, oh, maybe three miles east on the old---next to the tracks where we came home on. But I couldn’t make a This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 27 of 35 �go of it after a couple of years. In fact, my brother had given up too, and he had an ?oxen?, and the only thing I had was a tractor. I used his truck. But it belonged to me, the tractor. But his bigger tractor to do the plowing, I used his bigger tractor. But I couldn’t make a go of it. INTERVIEWER: So then after the farming, what did you do? [28:00] SAKAGUCHI: Let’s see. Well, after I farmed on my own, I joined my wife’s family and worked with them for maybe a couple, three years. INTERVIEWER: What kinds of things did you do? SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What kinds of work did you do for them? SAKAGUCHI: Well, we did everything. We---they owned a tractor, and I helped them do the plowing (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: OK, so this was farming again? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. SAKAGUCHI: Regular farming. INTERVIEWER: And then after that, what did you do? SAKAGUCHI: Well, the marriage lasted about six, seven years, I guess. And that’s when I---I wasn’t getting along too good with her mother, and so my brother-in-law says, “Come work for me,” because that’s when his younger brother was killed on that farm. So they moved me into that---me and her into that (inaudible). By then my first boy, ?Glenn?, was born. My brother-in-law, he was good. He says, “If she wants to earn some money, tell her to keep track of her---go out there and keep track of her hours. I’ll pay whatever.” But she, I think she really wanted to be with her family, you know, so after [30:00] one year, well, she went back to her mother’s family, and I think it was the next year that we separated. My dad, he says, “Well, tell them that you’ll raise the boy,” but the courts don’t do it that way. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 28 of 35 �INTERVIEWER: Then after you did the farming, you were working for brother-in-law? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. And you did more farming for awhile? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And then what did you do after that? SAKAGUCHI: After that, I---I knew he couldn’t pay me too much, and I was making, like---he was paying me, like, 400 a month. Half of it went to child support, so I didn’t have too much money. But the next job I had was feeding cattle, (inaudible) north of Brighton where this National Foods had their big lot, and then they moved some of the operation to (inaudible). That’s where I was working when she got married again. INTERVIEWER: Then what did you do after that? Because that didn’t--SAKAGUCHI: After that I went into bartending, because they closed---yeah, National Foods closed their feed lots. I knew this man that had this bar, and I asked him for a job, and he says, “Yeah, OK.” And they [32:00] paid me something like $90 a week, which was pretty good. And so---but I had to work six days. I only had Mondays off. But I thought that was pretty good. And then while I was working there, a friend of mine had a bakery, and his son was out of high school and was married, and he was going to put in his six months and be in the National Guard, where he’d take training for one weekend a month and two weeks during the year. But, well, when we come back, that was a lot of work again, so--INTERVIEWER: What did you do next? SAKAGUCHI: I enjoyed the bakery. Well, once after that, the son, on old wound that he got playing football or something, (inaudible), and they had to operate on him. I worked for him another six months, and that was later, after I had other, different jobs. And then I worked for somebody that was running what they called American Fertilizer. They didn’t pay me much, [34:00] but they trusted me. I set up three places, unloading. You know what ammonia gas is? INTERVIEWER: Mm-hmm. SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 29 of 35 �And that’s kind of dangerous, you know, that ammonia, because it’ll burn you. But I set up two great big tanks with---what’s it called---that could unload from the tank car into them, and then I set one up in Watkins for the dry land farmers. And then---and I used to drive the truck, you know, delivering. They had stations all over, like Fort Morgan, Wiggins, Sterling, and Fort Collin---not Fort Collins, but Loveland, and north of Greeley, and south---east of Pueblo, called ?Wineland?, and Lamar and ?Lahana?. But I was making pretty good money. SAKAGUCHI: One day--INTERVIEWER: Then after that--SAKAGUCHI: What? INTERVIEWER: Go ahead. SAKAGUCHI: One day the man they made---?he was 70?---made the foreman, you know, because the other guy retired. And here it was towards wintertime, and this Mexican kid was [36:00] painting some of the thousand-gallon tanks that we hauled ammonia in with a spray gun, you know, and the first coat---what’s it called?---a primer, and here the boss---the ?stroll? boss, he was with a guy that was trying to sell him some arc welder, you know, the (inaudible). Well, they have a length of what’s it called---they’ve got the flux on the outside, you know, and electricity melts that thing as you weld. They were using that. The welder right next to that guy who was painting, I got out of there, and I went someplace else. By then the boss says, “Where were you?” I says, “You go over there and look in the (inaudible). I wasn’t about to see an explosion.” But he fired me, so I was---oh, for a couple of weeks, I was running around looking for something, and I happened to stop at a place where my cousin run. In fact, before I had helped him out a little bit working behind the bar. But I stopped there and talked to him. His landlord was a good friend that I knew from years back. And he asked me what [38:00] I was doing. I says, “I’m looking for something.” Well, the very next day I went back to my brother-in-law’s place, and he told me, he says, “You’re supposed to go up to (inaudible)’s office and see about a job.” Because his name was Pete ?Senna?. He knew the---not the under-sheriff, but---well, he, knew the under-sheriff, but the ones he did have was the personnel director. He says, “You go see him,” my brother. So they gave me a job right away. INTERVIEWER: Great. SAKAGUCHI: So I was the only one there for a long time. I had to take care of the back of the---they had an aisle between two rows of sales. And they had a policy that at nighttime you had a 15-watt bulb, and they turned off the big ones for their daytime. And one day I went on vacation. I came back, and I guess the---one of the bosses of the jail, he---one of the kids wanted to read at night or something. He wanted---and they put a big light on for him. And when I went by and I put that little light off, he cussed and cussed. I says, “You can cuss all you want. That’s the policy.” But I remember there was one---the This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 30 of 35 �guy that hired me, he passed away, and they had a [40:00] guy at the front desk that was manager of the records. So they made him over there, and he didn’t like me at all. Because I can remember cleaning the restrooms, and he’d come and spray green stuff. It was kind of a dye or something, you know, hard to get off, just see, you know, what the sheriff would do, maybe fire me. But the sheriff was good friends with my brother-in-law, so he told him to leave. INTERVIEWER: So you worked there until you retired in 1990; is that it true? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. I worked 12 years. I retired February the 6th because that’s the day I started. So it was exactly 12 years, and I was 65 and a half. I passed my 65th birthday. But since Bush started that war---well, not---when 9/11 started, the Adams County used to give us a little bit of raise, you know, maybe one-half percent on our retirement, but from 2001 I never did get a raise. INTERVIEWER: OK. Let’s---I know you have children, so let’s---I’d just like to get their names. SAKAGUCHI: Oh, the children? INTERVIEWER: First of all, what is your ex-wife’s name? SAKAGUCHI: Mabel ?Shibou?. INTERVIEWER: OK. And how many children did you have with her? SAKAGUCHI: With her, just the two. INTERVIEWER: OK. And what is the name of the first child? [42:00] SAKAGUCHI: The first child was Glenn. INTERVIEWER: OK. SAKAGUCHI: His middle name was ?Eichi?. INTERVIEWER: What does that--- This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 31 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: E. Glenn E. See now, his last name is Miyazaki. Look at his initials. [chuckle] Pretty good, huh? INTERVIEWER: Mm-hmm. And when was he born? What year? SAKAGUCHI: He was born in ’50. I remember that. INTERVIEWER: OK. And where was he born? SAKAGUCHI: He was born---well, in a hospital in Denver, but we were living in Brighton then. INTERVIEWER: OK. And your second child? SAKAGUCHI: Second child, she was born the same way in the same hospital, and we were living in Brighton. Three years later, ’53. INTERVIEWER: What is her name? SAKAGUCHI: Her name is ?Gwendy Lee?. INTERVIEWER: And you also have grandchildren? SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What are their names? Glenn---what are Glenn’s children’s--SAKAGUCHI: Glenn’s last name is Miyazaki now. INTERVIEWER: He has children. What are their names? SAKAGUCHI: His children--INTERVIEWER: What are their names? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 32 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: ---by his first wife he had Sarah. INTERVIEWER: OK. SAKAGUCHI: And his second wife, he had Allison and Ted. INTERVIEWER: OK. And Gwendy has children? SAKAGUCHI: Gwendy---she was married before Glenn. She’s got a boy about three years older than Glenn’s oldest. His name is Jason. INTERVIEWER: OK. SAKAGUCHI: And next is ?Neal?’s boy, and the last one, Christina. INTERVIEWER: OK. SAKAGUCHI: And I have never met Christina yet. INTERVIEWER: That’s too bad. SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. Well, before we end this tape, these tapes are going to be used for educational purposes, and these interviews are going to be used to educate future generations [44:00] as far as the contributions of the Japanese-American World War II veteran. Do you have any advice for the future generations? SAKAGUCHI: Not really. I---I couldn’t advise them because me, I drank quite a bit and smoked, and my life was not too good, you know. So--INTERVIEWER: Do you have any---do you have any thoughts about the contributions that the Japanese American World War II veteran made? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 33 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, there’s a lot of them. In fact, of course, there’s only---I think I’m the only World War II veteran left until Brighton, but my--INTERVIEWER: What do you think about the contribution, though, about what those men did? SAKAGUCHI: They all do good, especially the next generation. They---I just heard the other day, one of my sister’s---sister-in-law, one of her boys is a, what do they call it---nuclear physicist. And the other one is---the oldest one is---i don’t know what it is, but Bill Hosokawa put out a book last year about the Japanese people of Colorado, and he mentions my sister’s other sister---younger sister-in-law. One of her sons was an [44:00] elect---electrician. Well, he practically owned the company that helped build Coors Field. And so they’re all doing good, and I--INTERVIEWER: So that generation wouldn’t be doing as well today if not for--SAKAGUCHI: I think that generation is doing real good, yeah. There’s a lot of them that are teachers--INTERVIEWER: Because of what---because of what the Japanese American veteran--SAKAGUCHI: I think that’s whole thing, because they got a good head start in college, whether the folks like even this one that became a nuclear physicist, his folks weren’t too rich, and his dad died of Alzheimer’s, and---but he worked his way through school, you know, as most of them do nowadays. The only one is my younger niece, that’s here today. So yeah, I guess she’s already retired, she tells me. I wish I could--INTERVIEWER: Well, Goro--SAKAGUCHI: Hi, Judy. INTERVIEWER: Well, Goro, or Goon, on behalf of the Go for Broke National Education Center and the Hanashi Oral History Project, thank you so much for coming today and telling us your story. SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And, you know, they send out these raffle tickets every year. I fill them out, because I got a little [48:00] stamp, you know, that comes from the bank that’s the same stamp that they put on the corner of my checks, and that thing just fits right on. I fill them out, then I forget to send it. INTERVIEWER: [chuckle] Well, there’s always next year. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 34 of 35 �SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, I won’t forget now, because you guys helped me out quite a bit. I appreciate it. END OF AUDIO FILE 2 This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 35 of 35 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goro Sakaguchi oral history interview, September 12, 2006 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goro Sakaguchi oral history interview transcript [full interview], September 12, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakaguchi, Goro: narrator Leivici, Joanne: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 35 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-09-12 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0719_T_Sakaguchi https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/1b6bc44c01625b65f1f9a738031e9443.pdf 64adaff4331b9222272d54f84fdccde3 PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Ray Sakaguchi, September 12, 2006, Denver, Colorado CREW MEMBER: ---on September 12, 2006 in Denver, Colorado. Interviewer is Robert Horsting. Camera is (inaudible) and on audio is (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: Would you state your name and your birth date and place of birth? So I’ll start off with you, Ray, then I’ll ask you, Marguerite, and then I’m going to come back to you. We’ll start talking about your parents, OK? Would you please start off by introducing yourself and giving us your date of birth and place of birth? RAY SAKAGUCHI: My name is Ray Sakaguchi and they call me Ray from, oh, maybe about 30 years ago. So I usually go by the name Ray. INTERVIEWER: What was your birth name? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Ryosuke. INTERVIEWER: And did you get your nickname in the Army or where did you--RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, they called, my first brother’s name was Kay and his name was Kyosuke so they just called me Ray, you know. INTERVIEWER: When were you born and where? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I was born in ?Burton? Colorado and they gave me the name Ryosuke from then on. I was called, well, from high school, end of high school, I was called Ray, you know. INTERVIEWER: What was your birth date? RAY SAKAGUCHI: November 3, 1922. That’s a long time ago. (laughter) INTERVIEWER: Yeah, it is. And would you introduce yourself and give us your full name, your birth date and birth place? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Marguerite Sakaguchi, 2/12/23 in Plattville, Colorado. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: And what was your maiden name? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: ?Doizaki?. INTERVIEWER: Ray, I’d like to ask you, please tell us your father’s name and where he came from. RAY SAKAGUCHI: My father’s name was ?Katsube? And my mother’s name was Hisano Takayama. INTERVIEWER: What do you know, actually when were your parents born? RAY SAKAGUCHI: When I was first born? INTERVIEWER: When were your parents born? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, my father was come from Japan in, oh, he was born in 1885. And my mother was born in 1890, I think. INTERVIEWER: Where did they come from? RAY SAKAGUCHI: They come from, one of them come from ?Koka? Japan and the other one was Takayama, Japan? Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Before your father came to the United States what did he do in Japan? RAY SAKAGUCHI: When he first came I don’t know what he did but I think he started farming right away as soon as he came. He came in 1910 or near there. INTERVIEWER: I talked to you earlier, you mentioned that your father used to do carpentry work. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, in Japan he used to do carpentry work. But when he cut a board he’d cut straight (inaudible) at the end it would bend down. He was pretty good. INTERVIEWER: He wasn’t able to pass this skill on to you, huh? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: He was OK. (inaudible), you know. INTERVIEWER: I also remember your saying something about he was working for the railroad? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Your father worked for the railroad? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, he did for a while. INTERVIEWER: What railroad company did he work for? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Union Pacific, I think. INTERVIEWER: What did he do for them? RAY SAKAGUCHI: We farmed in Burton, Colorado. INTERVIEWER: What did your father do for the railroad company? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I don’t know but I remember he used to talk about the railroad quite a bit, you know. INTERVIEWER: Marguerite, do you remember any of the stories of his father’s working with the railroad? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: So he worked Cheyenne to Nebraska and then from Cheyenne to (inaudible) just a small town on the other side. Can’t remember the town that he was working as a, I guess to fit the rail, those rail on the railroad. INTERVIEWER: So he was helping lay the track? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Lay it down, yeah. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: You also mentioned to me the Moffat tunnel. What was the Moffat Tunnel? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: It was built so that a train goes through from (inaudible) another city but I don’t know what it was. I forgot. I read it too long ago and then just forget what (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: Ray, you told me that your dad told you some stories. What can you tell me of some of the stories that your dad told you about working on the railroad? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Stories? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, what kind of stories did he share with you about working on the railroad? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He started with the railroad, I think, from, oh, from western Colorado back up to, well, he did a lot of work on the railroad in the beginning. INTERVIEWER: OK. Would you please describe your father for us? What did he look like physically? Was he a big man, short man? RAY SAKAGUCHI: (laughter) Well, we called him pop or dad, you know, but I don’t remember calling him anything else. INTERVIEWER: Was he tall or short? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He was kind of short, yeah. INTERVIEWER: And was he thin or did he have a strong build? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He was pretty heavyset. INTERVIEWER: How about his disposition? Was he kind of fun loving or very stern? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, he came from, I think he came from Seattle, Washington down here to Colorado. INTERVIEWER: How about, what was his personality like? Did he seem very fun loving or was he a very strict person? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. I guess he learned his English pretty good. But like my mother, she didn’t know any English so she had a hard time. INTERVIEWER: Your father also started doing farming. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What kind of farming did he do? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, mostly vegetable farmer, you know, like cabbage and lettuce and stuff like that, tomatoes. INTERVIEWER: And I think I also heard you guys did sugar beets? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Sugar beets? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, sugar beets. INTERVIEWER: Was farming a tough work? Did you have to do some too? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, we had to do a lot of work for him, you know, but he did OK. INTERVIEWER: What kind of chores did you have on the farm? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, like I remember putting all this cabbage and it took anything, you know, big and small so we had about eight and half tons, I think, on that truck and we, I think it was about $100 a ton so we did pretty good on that one time, you know, but that was after the war though, you know. INTERVIEWER: OK. Let’s talk about your mother a little bit. RAY SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 54 �Oh, she did, she didn’t know any English until we taught her to speak a little bit, you know, so she could at least get around, you know. but I think, I can’t remember what year it was but they both got their citizenship for the United States, oh, I think about four or five years after I graduated. So must have been 1950, somewhere around there. INTERVIEWER: Your mother, please describe her for us. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Describe your mother physically for us. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, she was pretty nice to us, all the boys and, you know, but I remember when she heard this thunder and lightning right away she wanted to go home, you know. That just kind of scared her. INTERVIEWER: Were you out on the road or visiting another town? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, we was all working and she just said, “Let’s go home,” so we went home. INTERVIEWER: Please don’t do that. We’ll hear that sound. We’ll be looking for horses when the tape plays later. Was she a tall woman, short woman, frail, describe her physically for us. RAY SAKAGUCHI: What? INTERVIEWER: What did she look like? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, she was, I think I’ve got one picture of her when we went to California to visit her daughter and I think she didn’t really say much, you know, but I remember my dad used to, if he told us once, you know, that was it. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: So he was, was he the one who took care of discipline in the house? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, I like what she did, you know, for me anyhow. INTERVIEWER: What did she do that you especially remember, something she did for you? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I don’t know. I guess she just liked one of us boys that did a lot of work for her. I remember my brother that volunteered for the 522nd, he felt awful (inaudible) it’s a good thing they had this darn (inaudible) because that wheel was spinning if it had fell down under their wheel it would have just tore him up but he was good about it. INTERVIEWER: So what exactly happened? He was on the tractor and he fell? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. That was when he was, he used to drive a tractor awhile. And how did he, how was he saved from getting cut up by the...? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, he volunteered in ’43, I think, and he volunteered to, and he went to the 522nd I guess. INTERVIEWER: OK, which brother was this? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Older brother. INTERVIEWER: What’s his name? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He was about two years older than I was. INTERVIEWER: And what’s his name? RAY SAKAGUCHI: ?Keizo? We called him Kez. INTERVIEWER: And what did he become known later? Later he took another name. What do they call him now? RAY SAKAGUCHI: We call him, I usually call him Kez but he likes the name that was given to him and he didn’t know until he went to the Army that his name was Henry, yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 54 �Sure. Actually why don’t you just tell us what you want to tell us. What did you want to add to this? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: I’ll just say that he don’t comprehend what you’re asking the question so I thought (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: Actually why don’t you just help us out and answer, you know, when you feel that you need to help him just say, OK? Feel free, seriously. Can you, what do you remember of his parents? What kind of people were they? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Oh, they were very considerate, very helpful and they were really friendly and do anything for everybody, anything. When (inaudible) they were there helping them out. So anything they was capable of getting in trouble, they were always there doing things for them. So it’s kind of what he said (inaudible) all the different ideas. That’s what they are. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. Ray, tell us, what was the racial makeup of your community? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What was the racial makeup of your community? Were there just Japanese, were there Germans, Italians, who were the people in your neighborhood? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I don’t know but I know that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: -- American people. There were very few Japanese around me (inaudible). RAY SAKAGUCHI: One girl was pretty nice to us. I think her name was ?Mary Jo Nagle?. She was pretty nice to us. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: She was a classmate. RAY SAKAGUCHI: She tried to teach me to dance, you know. I didn’t care for that kind of stuff, so. INTERVIEWER: No? (laughter) MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Our neighbor was all American people. They were German, Italian, Spanish people. They were (inaudible). This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: When you went to school you went to a small school that was first through eighth grade? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, that was the Japanese school. We learned Japanese. INTERVIEWER: No, there was an elementary school you went to. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) Henderson school. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, Henderson. Yeah, I went to school there. We used to play marbles quite a bit. INTERVIEWER: Were you good? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, I was a pretty good, I think so. INTERVIEWER: Who was the best at your school in marbles? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I don’t know. I think my dad did more for us than anybody, you know. I can’t understand how they kept this place where we stayed, you know. I don’t know how the heck he kept it so warm but we was all crowded around the, when he built the fire, oh, I would say he built the fire at 2:00 and we’d all go and sit by that stove, you know, and keep warm. INTERVIEWER: Was it a big house or a small house? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Pretty big house, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Now, you have to have kind of a lot of room because your family was pretty big, right? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, it was ten of us all together. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: Ten kids? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, ten kids. INTERVIEWER: Could you name your brothers and sisters? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I know them all, Kay, ?Moss? was the first one to pass away. He passed away when he was 59. Huh? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Name all your brother and sister. RAY SAKAGUCHI: There was Kay, Kyosuke, he was the first one, and then there was ?Mayo? And ?Shimpe? Shimpe was a doctor. He learned, he went to school in Colorado University I guess. He went to Milwaukee, Wisconsin afterward. INTERVIEWER: And who was after Shimpe? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Doctor Shimpe and then--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: He was a pediatrician. RAY SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) still living, you know. She’s the oldest one in the family now. I’m next to Keizo, Kez. INTERVIEWER: And then who’s after you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: ?Gun? ?Goro? Goro Sakaguchi. He comes next. Goro and then Yae is in Hawaiian islands. She married a colonel, I think he was. He came out as a colonel but she married him right after, they got to know each other well. Some guy named Jim (inaudible) introduced him to my sister. INTERVIEWER: And then who was after Yae? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Toshie. She lived in Los Angeles for awhile and then they went to San Diego and lived the rest of his life. I think he graduated as a, I can’t remember what the heck he was. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) He owned a home in San Diego and I guess he lived there the rest of his life. He still lives there, I guess. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: And then who was the last? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Moss. He was, Moss, he died first. I don’t know how come but he’s the youngest one in the family and he died. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) INTERVIEWER: Can you repeat that? What did he die of? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: A tumor in the brain. I think it was a cancer but he didn’t say. INTERVIEWER: Who were you closest to of your brothers and sisters? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Closest to? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, who--RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I think Kez was one of my closest friends when we worked on the farm. INTERVIEWER: Why was your relationship so close? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, he, I don’t know. Him and I did things together. I mean like apple trees, I remember he used to get the apples and eat them, you know. I think one time we did eat a big watermelon about, weighed about 15 pounds. INTERVIEWER: Wow. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Supposed to be a 100 pound watermelon, you know, but I remember that, it’s pretty big, you know. We couldn’t carry it. INTERVIEWER: How old were you then? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 54 �About how old were you then? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I was about 12, 13. INTERVIEWER: What else did you used to do in your childhood? What would you do to play or just go have a good time? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I was always a Yankee fan when I was growing up, 13, 14, 15. I used to really like them, I don’t know why. Nobody else liked them, you know. I remember we had one guy that had a clothing store and he didn’t like the Yankees until he went to see them, you know. He got to be a Yankee fan after that. INTERVIEWER: Who did you really like from the Yankees? Who was the star you liked the most? RAY SAKAGUCHI: In those days there was, well, I was about 18 or 19, what the heck was his name? I can’t remember his name. INTERVIEWER: An Italian name or? (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Joe DiMaggio? RAY SAKAGUCHI: No. Yeah, well, Joe DiMaggio and--INTERVIEWER: Lou Gehrig? Was that too early? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Guy used to hit, he used to hit him pretty good in the--INTERVIEWER: Babe Ruth? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. The time that you’re going to elementary school, you were also going to Japanese school? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Two months, July and August, in, oh, I would say about eight years. I graduated from that school, Japanese school, by learning Japanese, you know. INTERVIEWER: How good were you? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: (laughter) Pretty good, I guess. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And besides language what else would they teach you about Japanese culture? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, they, I learned a lot from my father about Japanese, you know. INTERVIEWER: What was the most important thing he tried to teach you about values and about Japan? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I remember the teacher, he was an algebra teacher. He taught me to, anyhow I got A grades in the algebra but the rest of them I flunked out. Typing by typewriter. English I did pretty good, you know. English teacher, name was Wells, I think. And I think we had a lady named Karr, she taught us typing and things like that. I didn’t learn nothing from her. But that Wells was pretty good. INTERVIEWER: Marguerite, let me ask you, were you attending the Japanese school as well? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Aside from language did they try to teach you culture through stories about Japan and--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yes, they did. As we’d read a book they would tell us and then they would (inaudible) Japanese dances and then they did a skit in Japanese. They’d have once a year at the end of the school they’d have a program for the family that attended the school, all the children did something from a different culture than Japan. INTERVIEWER: Tell us something that you remember that they tried to pass along in the way of important values. What did they teach you about that? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, during the school year we were supposed to (inaudible) talk English at all, just Japanese, talk to each other in Japanese. (inaudible) teacher was (inaudible) graduate college (inaudible) and one of the older ladies, she’s from Japan and she was really strict about (inaudible) culture about Japan. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: Ray, you had mentioned to me the Japanese school teacher was very, very strict. RAY SAKAGUCHI: He took a ruler and stuck everybody in the head in that class because one person, one person, was pretty bad. I guess he didn’t listen to what the teacher was trying to teach us, you know. But I think I got more out of him than anybody, you know. INTERVIEWER: So one person would do something bad, everybody would get punished? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. He took a ruler and slapped everybody in the head. INTERVIEWER: But for you, you really learned from him? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. (laughter) INTERVIEWER: Now, there was also someone who used to come to town about three or four times a year from California with Japanese movies? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, they used to have Japanese movies but they used to have a guy and he would talk, it was silent movies but he’d talk about what they were saying, you know. INTERVIEWER: So he’d sort of narrate or act it out? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Which was your favorite movie that you remember seeing? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I don’t know. I guess I liked them all but I just didn’t get (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) connection about what they were trying to say. INTERVIEWER: What was your favorite films from those movies? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: All different kinds. They had modern love stories and samurais but they (inaudible) history of Japan. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 54 �Was it a real big event for the community when this man would come out? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. We usually made the time to go. Usually they had in Denver once a month before (inaudible) grocery store and get stuff filled from like California so they’d plan to have that for four people. INTERVIEWER: How big was the Japanese community of Henderson or Brighton area? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Pretty big. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Not too much. Not too much Japanese there. RAY SAKAGUCHI: We used to go on a bus to school but I remember I took one guy and I said, “Let’s walk to school” so we walked, one day we walked over there and we got thirsty and so we stopped at one place where we got a drink or something, I don’t know what it was, just before we got to school. INTERVIEWER: How long a walk was that? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, about two, three miles, you know. It wasn’t very long but it seemed like it was long for us. (Laughter) INTERVIEWER: Is that why you said you only walked once? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. (laughter) INTERVIEWER: During that time when you were going to school was--RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Tell me about anybody who really stood out to you from school days that seemed to be really kind and tried to help you. Was there a teacher or a classmate or somebody that just seemed to--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Teacher. INTERVIEWER: Who was it for you? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 54 �MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Teacher (inaudible) both were graduate of (inaudible) there were Nisei and then they (inaudible) they go to Japan and had an education in Japanese for, I don’t know, a couple of years and they were there (inaudible) teaching us Japanese. INTERVIEWER: So for you it was a Japanese school teacher that made the most impression on you? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the teacher’s name? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) Doctor (inaudible) and Mr. Kosho. They (inaudible) in California. And they really impressed with how we learned Japanese even though they were Nisei. INTERVIEWER: So these are Nisei teachers? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And Ray, how about for you? Who during your school years made the biggest impression on you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: You mean in Japanese school? INTERVIEWER: No, any school, either Japanese school or regular school. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, we had a principal, they named a new school after him. His name was ?Vikan? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, he was good. INTERVIEWER: Why was he so special? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I don’t know. He just taught us good algebra, you know. He was a good algebra teacher so I liked him a lot. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 54 �OK. What sports did you play? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Did I? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, what sports did you play during school? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Nothing. (Laughter) INTERVIEWER: Why was that? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, they had, I remember this one big guy, he must have weighed about 200 pounds, you know, he just grabbed the other quarterback and pick him up and shove him back, you know. I remember that one time Kez took us to school football game and he played football. Kez didn’t do any of the regular but this one guy, I think his name was Tor, Tor Myers, and he picked up the opposition quarterback and just picked him up and ran back with him, you know. (laughter) INTERVIEWER: When you got out of school, actually what year did you graduate? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What year did you graduate from high school? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Nineteen forty-one in high school. And I think right after the war started so a lot of people come from California to Colorado and some people that stayed with us, they drove a truck. Well, a small truck but they drove all the things over to our place. I think after awhile they moved to New York, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Those family friends that came and moved onto your farm, where were they from in California? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, they were northern, mostly northern Colorado from San Francisco, around there. INTERVIEWER: And were these relatives or family friends? RAY SAKAGUCHI: They were, they didn’t know nothing about farming, you know, but my dad taught him. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 54 �Family friend. INTERVIEWER: Family friend? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. And how big was your farm? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, about 125 acres, I guess. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: It was 160, I think. INTERVIEWER: You thought it was how big? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: I think 160 and then that highway went through so it cut down quite a bit. I don’t know how much. INTERVIEWER: When did the highway go through? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: When did that highway go through? There’s highway six. INTERVIEWER: Was that after the war or? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, after the war. INTERVIEWER: OK. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) I’m sorry? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: I think it’s Highway 25. INTERVIEWER: What do you remember about where you were when you heard that the war broke out, the attack on Pearl Harbor? RAY SAKAGUCHI: We got married in 1951. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 54 �MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No. What did you do after? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: What did you do after? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I worked at the post office. INTERVIEWER: But on December 7, 1941, the attack on Pearl Harbor. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, December seventh? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, where were you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I was still on the farm, yeah. I was about, I would say, ’41, I had about a year left in high school then. I think right after that the people from California moved out here and moved out to Colorado. INTERVIEWER: Why did they move from California to here? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, they were actually chased out, I guess. They had this thing about, well, I guess a lot of people were sent away from where they lived, you know, in California. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Is that the 2055? They told to remove all Japanese from coast? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, 9066. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: What? INTERVIEWER: 9066. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. So that’s the reason. They didn’t have no place to go so Colorado, Governor Carr welcomed anybody from coasts to come to (inaudible) Colorado. So that’s the reason. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: The governor at that time was Carr. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: So he told his friend, his dad’s friend and all of them just to, just came over their farm. INTERVIEWER: Now, your farm, prior to these family friends coming, on your farm before these family friends came who worked the farm? Was it just all family or did you hire other laborers? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, a guy that owned the place, he sold the place to us, to my dad and I think around ’49 or ’50 he paid it off and he owned the farm by himself, you know, so it was 125--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) children and then they hired Spanish people to do (inaudible) or picking vegetables. But mostly family did it. INTERVIEWER: OK. And the Spanish laborers, were they from Spain or Mexico? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: They were local. INTERVIEWER: And were they--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: After the war they came from Mexico. INTERVIEWER: Where did they live, on the farm or did they have homes in the area? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, they had a home for them. They had a shack where they lived (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: What do you remember, where were you when the war broke out? What do you remember hearing about the attack on Pearl Harbor? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, I was home just worked on the farm with the family. We rent the farm (inaudible) so I was working at the farm. INTERVIEWER: How did you hear that the war broke out? Did you hear about it on the radio or a family member tell you? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 20 of 54 �On the radio. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall? How did that make you feel? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What do you recall about how that made you feel? What did you think? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: I feel terrible that they didn’t know what’s going on. INTERVIEWER: What did your family talk about when they heard that? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: They were scared. They didn’t say much, they were scared. My mother’s American born, my father was born in Japan so they were just scared. At that time my oldest brother was drafted in March before the Pearl Harbor and he was stationed in Hawaii. I mean so it was just folks were scared of what’s going to happen to my brother. INTERVIEWER: And what Fort was your brother posted at in Wyoming? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: What? INTERVIEWER: Where was your brother posted in Wyoming? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Fort Worth. And then he was transferred to El Paso after that. And from there he was overseas, didn’t tell where he went but it was like he served in Germany. INTERVIEWER: Did he go over during the war? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Did he go over to Europe during the war? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, he went to Germany. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 21 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: But during the war or after? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: It was after Pearl Harbor, right after that. INTERVIEWER: Was he a member of the 442nd or another unit? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No, he was just an American (inaudible) at that time. INTERVIEWER: Ray, what do you remember about maybe your thoughts or discussion in your family about the effects of the Pearl Harbor attack, how it was going to affect your family? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, we always stayed in one place. I was about two miles from Brighton, two miles south of Brighton and my dad owned the land so he did pretty good, I guess. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Was your family afraid that war breaking out might be bad for your family, that people might be angry at you or blame you for the attack? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I didn’t pay too much attention to those people, you know. Those people didn’t like us and so I just left them alone, you know. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of any act of prejudice that either you experienced personally or witnessed? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I think all of the teachers were OK but a lot of the people that we had contact with, a few people didn’t like the Japanese people so it was kind of hard but we managed, you know. INTERVIEWER: How about people that you dealt with to get groceries or goods for the farm, how did they treat you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Had no trouble with that. INTERVIEWER: And Marguerite, what do you recall? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Like this is the grocery so they treated us good. They didn’t take our (inaudible) when we raced to their store so they could sale so they were very... This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 22 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: And what do you recall of any act of prejudice against your family from some other people or any story that you heard of any anti-Japanese prejudice about that time? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, folks wasn’t, they wasn’t involved too many people but certain people, they were treating you good so they didn’t think about it. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, nothing personal for you? OK. How is it that you got into the military? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Were you drafted or did you volunteer for the military? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Actually I was drafted, yeah. I think I was drafted in July, first part of July, and I--INTERVIEWER: And what year? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I took about--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Forty-two. RAY SAKAGUCHI: ---13 weeks of training. INTERVIEWER: Forty-two? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Forty-two, ’43. INTERVIEWER: You took how long training? RAY SAKAGUCHI: About 13 weeks. And in December they give us, what the heck they call it? They let us go for awhile to go home. I think we stayed at home about 15 days and just before Christmas we had to go back so that’s when I had trouble with one of the bus drivers. He wouldn’t let us sit in the back and that’s where we went to sit, you know. I told him, I said, “I’ll sit where I want to” you know, so--INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 23 of 54 �This is in Mississippi? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Usually they had black people, they were prejudiced against black people at that time. I did OK. INTERVIEWER: How did you feel about the treatment about black people there in Mississippi? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I didn’t pay no attention to it. INTERVIEWER: How about, now, this is Camp Shelby. I know you were there in 1944. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Was it ’43, isn’t it? Forty-four I was--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, ’44 you were overseas. INTERVIEWER: The record I’m showing is that one form that you showed me, the dark one that looked like a negative? Yeah, that one looks like it shows that he went there in ’44. It looks like he was there in 1944. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh. INTERVIEWER: So you told me one story about a cousin of yours that came home and was in uniform and you went to a restaurant, what happened? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. Oh yeah, (inaudible) General--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: When ?Momi? was here you guys went to--RAY SAKAGUCHI: What the heck was his name? General somebody. INTERVIEWER: You’re talking about Mark Clark? General Mark Clark? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 24 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: General Clark, yeah, Mark Clark, yeah. INTERVIEWER: How did you meet him? RAY SAKAGUCHI: (laughter) I met him through the, he went to inspect the whole company and when it come to this guy named Jones he just said, “How in the heck did he get into this outfit?” (laughter) INTERVIEWER: Was that a--RAY SAKAGUCHI: He couldn’t believe it. You know, Jones, that’s a crazy name, you know, and he was from New York so his mother must have been Japanese, you know. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible), didn’t you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Clark was our company, he was with our company for a little while. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, he was the Fifth Army General. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, Mark Clark. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, he was the Fifth Army General. RAY SAKAGUCHI: This thing here belongs to my brother. INTERVIEWER: Let’s talk about Mark Clark. You had mentioned that he did an inspection of the troops? And he came up to you and asked you about your dogtag? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) talking to you. That’s the (inaudible). RAY SAKAGUCHI: General Clark, yeah. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: You were in the inspection. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 25 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: General Clark passed away about, oh, about ten years ago I guess. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Can you tell us about that inspection? What happened? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: He’s saying he was assigned to (inaudible) he was in (inaudible) campaign there in the war. He was private when he met the General Clark during the unit inspection. He recalled that Clark gave him (inaudible) punished him and he (inaudible). RAY SAKAGUCHI: General Clark was good to the Japanese people. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What did you guys think of him? Ray, what did you guys think of him? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, he passed away, oh, maybe about ten years ago. And he was OK, you know. INTERVIEWER: Was he a good leader? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Was he a good leader? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, I liked him. INTERVIEWER: OK, we’re going to stop tape there. END OF AUDIO FILE 1 BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 26 of 54 �You know when the war broke out and Japanese people were kind of concerned about what might happen, that one of your German neighbors had told your family he had similar experience during World War I? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, well, one of our neighbors went back to Japan, the whole family did. I think they were, it was about eighth or ninth, no, about tenth grade I guess. I remember this one guy named Jim, Jim Goto, he was our neighbor but he went to, he went with the family all the way back to Japan. INTERVIEWER: I think Henry told me about a German neighbor of yours that told your family not to worry, he had the same trouble during World War I? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, we had two Germans named Joe. One of them, the Army says I’m kind of glad he didn’t go and within a year he had passed away because he had a bad heart. And the other Joe, I don’t remember, Joe (inaudible), I don’t remember too much about him. INTERVIEWER: Was he someone your age? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: He was our classmate. INTERVIEWER: Oh, classmate? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. Do you remember, or what can you tell me about some of the German people in the area? How long had they been living there before? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: They’d been there for a long time. See, at least as long (inaudible) farm over there, his father. But they were just friendly as could be. Just that they told us not to worry. INTERVIEWER: When the war broke out who, if anybody, came from some authority, either the military or FBI or police, to your house to check on you? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Nobody, policeman or anybody, they didn’t come to your place to check on your dad during the war, at the war? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 27 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, my dad, he didn’t say too much, you know. But when he said something it stuck with you, you know. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: But nobody had come to investigate it. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, (inaudible). MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No. INTERVIEWER: I’m asking about whether police or FBI, somebody came to investigate your family after the war started? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No, they didn’t. INTERVIEWER: Did anyone come to search your house or look for guns? RAY SAKAGUCHI: They wanted to take away our, we had a big radio. INTERVIEWER: Short-wave radio? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. We had, we could get Japanese news and everything but they took it away. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) INTERVIEWER: How about a shotgun? RAY SAKAGUCHI: It was in the morning. I think it was about 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning and they took it. But I can’t remember his name. INTERVIEWER: And how about a shotgun? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, they--This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 28 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: (laughter) Yeah, they took everything. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: A gun and a--RAY SAKAGUCHI: We had a shotgun, we had a radio. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: The radio. RAY SAKAGUCHI: And that was about it, I guess. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. I was asking you earlier about a cousin that was in the Army and he came to visit you and he came in uniform and you went to a restaurant. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh yeah. INTERVIEWER: What happened? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, the guy wouldn’t, they wouldn’t serve him so he told him, “Let’s get the heck out of here, you’re not going to serve us anyhow.” But yeah, he went out and I guess he was pretty well versed on that kind of stuff, you know. So he told him, “Let’s get the heck out of here.” Actually he used some bad words, you know. INTERVIEWER: How did that make you feel? RAY SAKAGUCHI: When I heard that I thought well, there are some people, you know, that didn’t like us Japanese. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Firstly, how did you think of yourself? Did you think of yourself as Japanese or as American? RAY SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 29 of 54 �Oh, I don’t know. I suppose I was born Japanese, you know, and so--INTERVIEWER: And what do you mean by you were born Japanese? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, my mother and father were Japanese, you know. But I think they got their citizenship from the US about five years after? I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: Marguerite, how did you think of yourself? Growing up did you think you were American, Japanese, how did you view yourself? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, (inaudible) I’m Japanese but I was treated as American. That was if you said you’re Japanese they think you’re from foreign country so (inaudible) every time people ask you they say Japanese American and (inaudible) it’s whatever some people call (inaudible) incident I had a couple of years ago, I was in a car accident, some guy came to tow me away (inaudible) you’re a Jap so you should go back to your country. INTERVIEWER: How long ago was this? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: That was about five years ago. It’s still happening and I kind of (inaudible) and I told the judge about that and he got mad. He says, “(inaudible)” so he cut it down to, I think I had ten point for that accident and he cut it down to two points. So it was really after war happened, because I work in a hospital as an LPN for 35 years. I had some incident and people didn’t want me to take care because they think I’m foreigner, so. But we just have to take it what they could do (inaudible) treat you OK. INTERVIEWER: Ray, you were in the Army. We started to talk a little bit about your going to Camp Shelby and what was the hardest part of training at Camp Shelby for you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, we had a, I guess it was about a five mile march that we had to make it in, out to that one place and back, you know, in five hours and one of the guys that I know, he passed away early during the war, I mean earlier when he come back, I think he did only about, oh, two or three years after that he got killed by, he was driving a tractor, I think, and he, some lady hit him in the back, you know, and he died right away. INTERVIEWER: She hit the tractor with her car? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He was a good friend of ours, you know. But he had just started to farm, you know, and so--INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 30 of 54 �What happened with him on the march while you were training? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, he only did it halfway, you know, and I guess because his legs gave out. He was kind of heavyset anyhow. INTERVIEWER: What was his name? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He was my sister’s brother-in-law. Nobu Tashio I think it was. INTERVIEWER: Actually you know, there was one other incident I wanted to ask you about. Originally you said you were kind of angry because you were classified 4C. The Army classified you 4C? RAY SAKAGUCHI: 4C and then--INTERVIEWER: What does that mean? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: That you were (inaudible). RAY SAKAGUCHI: 4C and then about a month later they put us in 1A and drafted us, yeah. INTERVIEWER: So what did 4C mean? RAY SAKAGUCHI: 4C was foreign something, yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: 4C was considered as an Indian. INTERVIEWER: And there was a situation with the classmate of yours, a woman at the selective service board? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 31 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: There was an incident between you and a woman from the selective service board, she was a classmate of yours? RAY SAKAGUCHI: That one lady, Mary Jo Nagle, what was her name? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No, (inaudible). RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: ?Lida Coon? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Lida Coon, yeah. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: She’s the one told--RAY SAKAGUCHI: She was kind of, she was in our class in high school and she didn’t like us for some reason, I don’t know what it was, but we just got along, that’s all. INTERVIEWER: How long did you train over in Camp Shelby? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, about 13 weeks. INTERVIEWER: OK. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Then they sent us overseas right away. They gave us, what they call it? INTERVIEWER: A leave? Leave to go home? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. But I notice now they got the stripes down here in small, used to wear--INTERVIEWER: Oh, your insignia, your rank? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 32 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Use it on our arm, you know. INTERVIEWER: I think they’re being more cautious. They don’t want officers and people to get picked off. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, I guess it don’t cost them much, you know. INTERVIEWER: How long was your leave? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, about 15 days, I guess. INTERVIEWER: And you came--RAY SAKAGUCHI: We was getting about, when I was a sergeant I was getting only $53, you know. INTERVIEWER: How often? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Once a month, yeah. But surprisingly, they kept that up and they gave it to us when we returned, you know. INTERVIEWER: When you got home? RAY SAKAGUCHI: From the Army, yeah. INTERVIEWER: With your leave where did you go? Before you shipped out. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Went home. INTERVIEWER: Home? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Went back home. INTERVIEWER: How did your family react to the news that you’re going to go overseas? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 33 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: They didn’t say anything. INTERVIEWER: And were you the only one in the Army at the time or who else? RAY SAKAGUCHI: No, I went with my brother to the same outfit. I don’t know why they put us both in Company G, you know. And the oldest one, he volunteered and went in ’43 to 522nd Army, what the heck was that? But anyhow he went to--INTERVIEWER: Heavy artillery? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. Artillery, yeah. INTERVIEWER: OK. Where did you ship out from when you went to Europe? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I went from New York to, we was on a ship for about five days. We went to northern, what the heck is that? Northern--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: In England? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: In England or? RAY SAKAGUCHI: North something. Then we went--INTERVIEWER: Was it Northampton? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. And then we went down to England, London, England and then from London, England went across the channel there and went to France. INTERVIEWER: How did you do on the boat over to England? RAY SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 34 of 54 �(laughter) Well, they had about, they had one outfit where they all second louies one of them got smart and they just threw him overboard and when we hit the northern England we had to stay on the boat one day because they had a funeral for him. INTERVIEWER: And what’s a second louie for people that don’t know that term? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know, they were all over the place, you know. INTERVIEWER: What’s that rank? What does second louie mean? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Second lieutenant was people that, well, they got second louie from the Army and here we was PFCs. INTERVIEWER: Were you a good sailor or did you get sick? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Were you a good sailor or did you get sick? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I got sick. I didn’t eat nothing. I just ate candy, that’s all. The darn food they gave us didn’t agree with me, I guess. INTERVIEWER: You had mentioned the ship that you went over on. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, we went over on, it was the sister ship of Queen Elizabeth so anyway it went over there in five days. INTERVIEWER: Wow. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Went overseas in five days. But we didn’t get to the outfit until, oh, maybe a week later because we went from London, England across the channel and then we went to southern France. That’s where we went to, that’s when we joined the 442. INTERVIEWER: And at the time that you met them, excuse me, in France were they on the French Riviera? What was that--RAY SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 35 of 54 �Went on a truck, yeah. INTERVIEWER: And was that right after the lost battalion? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, it was, the war was almost over then when we went. I think it was we went there and went to one farm, little dinky place, and we stayed there for about two or three days and then we joined the Company G, yeah, from there. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall when you first joined the ?min? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What do you recall when you first joined Company G? How did they receive you? Were they welcoming, were they just kind of distant? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I don’t know, I guess (inaudible) Japanese. You were just like them. So and then we fought about one or two months I think and the war was over already. So (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). INTERVIEWER: I’m sorry, go ahead. RAY SAKAGUCHI: We didn’t shoot very much, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Your first battle, did that take place in France or in Italy? RAY SAKAGUCHI: In Italy, yeah. Northern part of Italy. Went to Genoa and from, they give us one week or two weeks of leave and we went to Switzerland, I think. But that was pretty good. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Your first battle at the Gothic Line, what do you recall of the Gothic Line? RAY SAKAGUCHI: What do I do what? INTERVIEWER: I say what do you recall, you know the big battle that you joined, your first battle? RAY SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 36 of 54 �Well, after the, this must have been about four or five years ago they gave everybody that fought in the ?berares?, they give them the Congressional Medal of Honor, you know. Quite a few of them. INTERVIEWER: That was in 2000 they had Medal of Honor upgrades. RAY SAKAGUCHI: I remember one guy, he was Company G and he passed away about five years ago and he was just like anybody else, you know, but he was kind of crazy. He says, “Come out of there dead or alive.” He was machine gun, he had a machine gun and he told those German people, he says, “Come out of there dead or alive.” And if it was me, oh, I’d be afraid. INTERVIEWER: What was your first day like? Were you scared or did you not have any fear? RAY SAKAGUCHI: One of my good friends, he passed away, just before we went down, same place, same place where we went, he got killed. And so it kind of bothered me for a little while but I remember the German, they threw this thing and it landed two feet away from me but it landed on the bottom side, see, so it spread down instead of up where I was, you know. So I was lucky then. INTERVIEWER: Was that a hand grenade or something? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I was pretty lucky, I guess. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. I think I shot about two or three rounds from the rifle and hope I didn’t kill somebody. Even if they were Germans, you know, I just didn’t feel like killing anybody. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Is that (inaudible) or was it a mountain? What mountain was that? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, some people got killed, they were (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). INTERVIEWER: Mount Fogarito? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Mount Fogarito? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 37 of 54 �MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: What mountain were you talking about? RAY SAKAGUCHI: That was in northern ?Livorno? Just before we got to Genoa. INTERVIEWER: That was just before the Po Valley. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: That was the Gothic Line, it was called. RAY SAKAGUCHI: This one lady gave everybody fresh eggs every day, you know. And they held it in their hands, you know. I said oh, the heck with it, that truck going up and down, so I threw mine away. INTERVIEWER: They cracked it open and just served it to you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. (laughter) INTERVIEWER: This was after you went through the Po Valley area? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. After that. INTERVIEWER: What was the--RAY SAKAGUCHI: One lady was good about it. She gave everybody a fresh egg every day. I guess she had some chickens or something. I can remember when we was getting this box of cherries for about 12 and a half and we’d go and sell it to the German prisoners for $100. INTERVIEWER: How did the prisoners have so much money? RAY SAKAGUCHI: We were making money, you know. INTERVIEWER: What were the Germans prisoners giving you in exchange? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 38 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, cherries, one guy started breaking them open and about half of them had worms in it (laughter) so he couldn’t eat the cherry. INTERVIEWER: What were the German prisoners giving you in exchange for the cherries? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: The German prisoners, what did they have to exchange for cherries? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, they had plenty of money, you know. INTERVIEWER: German Deutsche Marks? RAY SAKAGUCHI: But every time you see them line up, you know, all you see is the first guy’s helmet and the rest of them fall right behind him. They were good about German prisoners, you know. INTERVIEWER: How did you feel toward the German prisoners? Did you look at them as an enemy or hatred or how did you feel? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, I don’t know. I didn’t like them too much but I don’t think I killed anybody. I took about two or three shots and that’s it, yeah. INTERVIEWER: What was the toughest part for you being in that fighting environment? What was the hardest part for you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: We was at the end of the war so I didn’t do too much but I remember I think I shot about three or four rounds and that’s it, you know. INTERVIEWER: You said a friend of yours died real early there. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What was his name? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 39 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Hmm. I can’t remember his name. INTERVIEWER: How much longer, or actually, after the war was declared over, when it was done there in Europe how much longer did you stay? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I think about, oh, I would say about two weeks after that, the war was over, you know. So we didn’t do too much fighting. INTERVIEWER: Did you get to travel around or did you have a lot of, actually what duties did you have after the war was over? Guard duty or guarding prisoners, what kind of things did you need to do? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I come back from Europe, I come back to the United States and then I went through eastern United States down to where my brother was. He was a doctor. I went to his place for a couple of days and then I went home. Can you imagine, from Chicago to Denver was only $15? INTERVIEWER: (laughter) RAY SAKAGUCHI: In those days. INTERVIEWER: That’s pretty amazing. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: And how did you go there, by train or fly? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Train. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Come back home on a train. INTERVIEWER: How did it feel to be home? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 40 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, I felt pretty good. (laughter) INTERVIEWER: How did your parents respond to your coming home? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: How did your parents react to your coming home? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. I know a couple of people, one guy, he wouldn’t even join the US. He says the way they treated him, you know. I says well, what the heck, you know. You fought for the US so what the heck, you know. INTERVIEWER: You told me about an incident actually I just remembered. When they drafted you and you went to the board and they asked you if you wanted to go into the Army or the Navy, what did you say? RAY SAKAGUCHI: (laughter) Well, they said, “Army or Navy?” I says “Navy,” so they put down Army. INTERVIEWER: They made that decision for you, didn’t they? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What did you do after the war? RAY SAKAGUCHI: After the war? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. RAY SAKAGUCHI: I went back to help my dad farming I guess about three or four years. and I remember this one truck we had, we loaded it with cabbage and we got, I think at that time, that one time they gave us $100 a ton so we put about eight tons on there but we got $800 and thought gee, that’s a pretty good deal, you know. But that was just that one time. Yeah, because the big one and little ones, they took them all, you know. Usually they took only the small ones. INTERVIEWER: How did you and Marguerite meet? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 41 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, she was kind of quiet but Dad was, my dad was kind of strict with this people--INTERVIEWER: I was asking you how did you and Marguerite meet? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, pretty good until lately. INTERVIEWER: (Laughter) I don’t want to start trouble now. (Laughter) How did you two meet? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: What? INTERVIEWER: How did you two meet? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, I was working in a hospital and he just came to see me and after that it took about a year after that he decided. INTERVIEWER: How long have you known each other? I mean did you know each other long before? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Oh, yeah. Sixth grade on. INTERVIEWER: Sixth grade? That’s a long time. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. We went to school together. INTERVIEWER: What made him so appealing to you? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: What attracted you to him? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. (laughter) INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 42 of 54 �Is it that long ago you’ve forgotten? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (laughter) I was busy working. INTERVIEWER: What kind of things did you do to, you know, when you went out on dates did you go eat, did you go dancing, what kind of things did you do for entertainment? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Just went to movie. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Went to a show. Mostly. INTERVIEWER: I know you don’t dance. Do you like dancing? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No. INTERVIEWER: No? How about music? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Oh, we hear music. We usually go see country music, that kind of thing. INTERVIEWER: Along with going to the movies what other types of activities did you, concerts or museums, any of that type of thing? RAY SAKAGUCHI: No. We went to a movie most of the time, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Who were your favorite stars at that time? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I met my Japanese school teacher, he’s the one that stopped us on the avenue. He come back from Japan for some reason. I guess his son came back, you know, and married some lady from, back in Denver and he did, I didn’t think nothing of it until I got home, you know, and then I thought why, he’s the one that taught us school, you know, when I was going to Japanese school. INTERVIEWER: So did you see him at a theater? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 43 of 54 �MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: ---to movie we usually go to, we used to go once a month for a while, you know (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: So did he go back to Japan before the war started? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Just when the war started I think he went back. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Not the war. In ’71. RAY SAKAGUCHI: No. INTERVIEWER: Did he go to Japan just before the war started and then come back to the United States? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No. Just his mother. INTERVIEWER: Pardon? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: That was his mother. INTERVIEWER: No, I’m talking about the Japanese school teacher. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, he went back to Japan and then came back. INTERVIEWER: OK. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Because he had a son and a daughter living here, so. INTERVIEWER: I want to ask you, each of you, how do you feel about America’s treatment of Japanese Americans during the war? RAY SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 44 of 54 �Well, now I live in a place where there are 90% Republican, you know, and so I don’t say too much to them. Because I don’t know how they’d feel. INTERVIEWER: But how do you feel about that time? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I just let it go. But about ten years before that I changed to an independent so it’s all right to be an independent but you can’t join the Democrats or you can’t join the Republicans when they have a meeting or something. It’s hard, you know. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I have that same problem. (Laughter) And how did you feel about that period of our history? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, they all came (inaudible) people were more or less becoming friendly and don’t talk about other people. INTERVIEWER: Given the fact that America really was questioning the loyalty of Japanese Americans during the World War II period but here men like your husband, his family, a lot of other men, joined the Army regardless and they fought very bravely for our country, what do you feel they accomplished? How do you think? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, they accomplished very well for next generation, especially sansei, yonsei. They’re coming and asking what’s American war about. And so some just, they say well, their duties so what the heck, you know. INTERVIEWER: So you find sanseis and yonseis are now starting to become more interested in the history? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: How about you, Ray? What do you feel that men like yourself that fought during World War II, what do you think you accomplished for America and for the Japanese community? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I feel like I was born in this country so what the heck. You know, I feel that we’re all Americans but then I don’t know, I get the feeling that some of these people that are Americans are a little different for some reason, I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: When you say a little different what do you mean? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Well, like I know I’m a Japanese, you know, but what the heck. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 45 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: But that’s only by heritage, right? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. I can’t feel like I’m one of them, you know, but... INTERVIEWER: What do you hope that America learned from that time? What lessons do you hope our country has learned? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. I think I fought for the people that gave me all that I did, you know, before that so I’m pretty happy the way it is, you know. INTERVIEWER: OK. RAY SAKAGUCHI: I worked for the post office 25 years and they asked me to join one of the outfits and so I feel like I did this country as much as I could. INTERVIEWER: OK. RAY SAKAGUCHI: I know there’s a lot of people that are (inaudible) I ask them to join this company, you know, and then they feel they weren’t something about them, you know, that I don’t feel very good about. INTERVIEWER: Some people asked you to join their group? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. No, they don’t ask me for none of their group, you know. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: He’s talking about the National Federation of Retired Postal Service. That’s really helping about the American and the politics and everything. And he go asked them to join but they said they don’t have time for. INTERVIEWER: He said he doesn’t have time for it? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, we go. That’s what his friends tells him, that they don’t have time to go to the, that’s what he told them. All those meetings they should go and learn. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 46 of 54 �They don’t have any interest? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: It seems there’s still a lot of that. I think--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: But after he talked to them they just bitch about it but what can we do? INTERVIEWER: See, I think firstly people of your generation realize, especially with your experience, realize the value of citizenship and what it is to have a right to vote and too few people value that nowadays. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: So. INTERVIEWER: Too few people vote. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Oh. INTERVIEWER: I want to thank you both so much for, on behalf of the Go For Broke National Education Center and the Hanashi History Program, Oral History Program, for agreeing to do this interview. RAY SAKAGUCHI: We sure do thank you. INTERVIEWER: Thank you so much. Thank you. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: I hope you got interested what he’s tried to, he’s hard of hearing and he has hearing aid, he won’t use it. INTERVIEWER: I think he was able to make his feelings about certain things, certain ideas came across well so I think it’s good. General Mark Clark at his home? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Mark Clark, yeah, he passed away. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: He has a real nice home with a nice library. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 47 of 54 �Where was that? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: In Charleston, South Carolina. INTERVIEWER: OK, and what was the occasion that you got to go to his house? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: This is (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). INTERVIEWER: I’m 50. RAY SAKAGUCHI: 60? INTERVIEWER: 50. Don’t age me ten years that fast. (Laughter) I’ll get there. RAY SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) INTERVIEWER: Pardon? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He is young yet. I’m 84. I’ll be 84 in November. First part of November. INTERVIEWER: I don’t think I’ll ever catch up with you but I hope to get there. RAY SAKAGUCHI: OK. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Well, the reason that (inaudible) Fifth Army Reunion in Rome in 1975 and we got the brochure to go there so we took a chance and went and after we came back General Clark came home, his hometown, he want the people that was in Rome in ’79 so he invited us to have a reunion at his hometown. INTERVIEWER: What was that like? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: It was great. At that time he was the president of the Citadel University. So we had a party over there. It was (inaudible) occasion over there so we visited. RAY SAKAGUCHI: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 48 of 54 �If you’re 50 you don’t know nothing about the war then, huh? INTERVIEWER: I know a little bit. RAY SAKAGUCHI: (laughter) INTERVIEWER: Not firsthand experience but. RAY SAKAGUCHI: So--INTERVIEWER: More through meeting vets like yourself and hearing the stories, yeah. Well, on that note I say thank you again. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, thank you. INTERVIEWER: OK. OK? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Tell the name? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Noburo Toshiro. RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Say that’s Noburo Tashiro. INTERVIEWER: Who is he? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Nobu Tashiro. He only found about two years after he come home and then some lady hit him in the back and he got killed right away. INTERVIEWER: OK. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 49 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Tosh. INTERVIEWER: Who’s this, Ray? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Toshie Sakaguchi. I mean her name is ?Kiyoni? now. INTERVIEWER: And who is she? RAY SAKAGUCHI: From San Diego. INTERVIEWER: How is she related to you? RAY SAKAGUCHI: She’s my sister. That’s Nobu and he’s doing the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: He’s just saying the name. That’s Nobu Tashiro. He wants you to tell him what it is. INTERVIEWER: OK, who’s that in the picture? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Who’s that in the picture? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Who is it? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: Is that you or a friend? RAY SAKAGUCHI: It looks like you a little bit. (Laughter) INTERVIEWER: I can tell you I wasn’t there. Where was this picture taken, Ray? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Oh, quite a few years ago. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 50 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: Was this at Camp Shelby? RAY SAKAGUCHI: 47 years ago. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: At Camp Shelby or LA? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know who that is. Who is that? INTERVIEWER: Ray? Ray? Do you remember--RAY SAKAGUCHI: Is that me? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Was it taken in Camp Shelby or in LA? It’s LA, isn’t it? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: OK, let’s move on. RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know who they are. Who’s that? ?Sachi Adachi? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Who? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Adachi. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Adachi? RAY SAKAGUCHI: He’s (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). INTERVIEWER: So that center one on the top? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, (inaudible) Nobu Tashiro. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 51 of 54 �INTERVIEWER: Which one is he in that picture? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: This looks like Nobu Tashiro. Does that look like Goon? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: OK, let’s move on to the next--MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: No, that’s you. INTERVIEWER: Which one’s you? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: This. INTERVIEWER: The bottom left one? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Uh-huh. And this is Nobu Tashiro. INTERVIEWER: Which one is he? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: That’s Ray. INTERVIEWER: And then where’s Nobu? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: This. INTERVIEWER: The top guy in the middle? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. RAY SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 52 of 54 �MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Huh? Is that Gobo you were talking? (inaudible)? RAY SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) at the chicken. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Chicken? INTERVIEWER: What kind of dishes did you make here? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) The burdock? INTERVIEWER: Burdock, OK. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Look like that was mixed with the chicken. INTERVIEWER: What beach were you on here, Ray? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Huh? INTERVIEWER: Was this in Italy? RAY SAKAGUCHI: I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: Let’s switch this other one. RAY SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Huh? RAY SAKAGUCHI: That’s the staff sergeant. One on the northeastern United States. INTERVIEWER: What was your staff sergeant’s name? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 53 of 54 �RAY SAKAGUCHI: Connell? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Huh? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Was his name Connell? MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Connell or Condo? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Connell? INTERVIEWER: Kono? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah. MARGUERITE SAKAGUCHI: Kono. INTERVIEWER: Was his name Jimmy? RAY SAKAGUCHI: (inaudible) INTERVIEWER: Ray? Ray? Was his name Jimmy from New York? RAY SAKAGUCHI: Yeah, some place, Cleveland or New York. INTERVIEWER: Why don’t we just do a white out? END OF AUDIO FILE 2 This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 54 of 54 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ryosuke Sakaguchi and Marguerite Sakaguchi oral history interview, September 12, 2006 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ray Sakaguchi oral history interview transcript [full interview], September 12, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakaguchi, Ray: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 54 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-09-12 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0720_T_Sakaguchi https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/f4049220dcac832a6457dca9f4115537.pdf 0751e8d87eb59c244e1da3823d8f8b04 PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with John Ellington, July 5, 2008, Denver, Colorado INTERVIEWER: [00:00] of July, 2008. We’re in Denver, Colorado, and we are speaking with John Ellington of Arkansas---Jerome, Denson, Arkansas. And on interviewing is Robert Horsting, and on camera, audio, and logging, is Lisa Sueki. I’d like to thank you very much for coming in and agreeing to do this interview today. And on behalf of the Go For Broke National Education Center, and the Hanashi Oral History Program---welcome you here. ELLINGTON: Well, it’s good to be here. And I feel like it’s a privilege to do something for the Go For Broke. ’Cause I feel like they did so much for me. If it hadn’t been for them and a bunch of other World War II folks, I may be speaking German and goose-stepping. INTERVIEWER: Tell us, where are you from specifically, and what’s your connection to this history? ELLINGTON: All right. I’m from Jerome, Arkansas where the Jerome Relocation Center is located. And the mailing address and all, of the relocation center, was Denson. It had its own post office and all. My---some of my people had been in that area since 1895, when my grandfather come in out of Mississippi. He was a millwright at the big flooring mill that was at Blissful. That’s what Jerome was called. Then World War I---they confused the mailing and spelling and whatever---a lot of the mail when to Blytheville, or whatever. So they named it Jerome, who I think was the son of one of the Bliss---?Cookes? or the ?Oakes?, one of them that owned that mill. That was a little before my time. And my father was born there. [02:00] And he died in the camp, because he was living in the camp when he died, less than a mile from where he was born. INTERVIEWER: And what’s your father’s name? ELLINGTON: John. [laughter] And sometimes if you read in the---some of the tin camps and whatever---some of the quotations, and some of that says John Ellington. That’s not this John Ellington, that’s my father. And he mostly was---went by the name of Ernest. And by a lot of interviewing and papers they always used the first name, so . . . INTERVIEWER: What is your date of birth? ELLINGTON: December the 21st, 1937. INTERVIEWER: And what’s your earliest recollection of meeting anyone of Japanese heritage? ELLINGTON: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 19 �Well, it would have probably---it would have been in the late ’42 or early ’43 as far as meeting one. But when they---I knew about the war and all because my grandfather was a carpenter at that time. And he worked in the camp as a supervisor and a carpenter in building it, and my father worked there some. But he wasn’t much of a carpenter, he couldn’t hit a nail, and he didn’t like to get his feet off the ground. So but then I remember seeing them when they began to come in because where we lived, a lot of our coming in and out, we come through the camp because it was closer to get to civilization. [laughter] And to get up to my grandparents’ house, which was three miles above the camp. INTERVIEWER: What do you recall of any discussion between your dad and your grandfather about these people? [04:00] ELLINGTON: No. I never heard my grandfather, Granddaddy have much of a discussion on anything. [laughter] But not on that. Now Daddy and some of the more other folks, you know I remember them talking about it. At that time, I don’t remember a lot of what they were saying, but you get on up towards ’43 and the early---the latter part of ’43 and ’44 before they closed the camp, then I do remember. And we’ve met quite a bit, and I won’t try to use too many of the names because I can’t pronounce them. And we knew quite a few of the folks that was in the camp; we met them. And particularly on the men because Daddy had become the number one bootlegger. Not moonshine, they were bottling bondage stuff. And some of the Japanese would take a drink. So they did come out, you know, and the spirits. And he had a cooler fixed up on our property, but about 50 yards from the government line. And they would come through the fence and serve themselves, and put their own money or an IOU in a (inaudible) coffee can. And my brother and I would---had entrepreneurship going. We could take a tub full of ice with various soda waters in it. Not Coca-Colas or that, but there was a bottling---a little bottling plant in Dermott, and it bottled double colas, and some oranges, and some grapes. And even though everything was rationed, we could generally get what we wanted because the gentleman what owned the plant drank Canadian Club Whiskey. [06:00] So to get him a bottle every once in a while, we kind of probably violated a few of the rationing laws. And then they had a ice house, and he would get a keg of fish ice, a 300 pound block and put in the dug out cooler for cool the beer. And that’s where I would get the ice for the Coke. We’d carry those up on a sled and leave it, and ride the horse back home. And then again, they would make their own change, do their own doings, and put the money in the (inaudible) coffee cans. INTERVIEWER: Just to be clear: who was your clientele? ELLINGTON: The internees. [laughter] The Japanese internees. INTERVIEWER: So basically, you had an honor store at the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). ELLINGTON: It was. And I think on the bus, yesterday I was talking about it. So far as I know, and to the best of my knowledge, we never lost a penny. And because in my experience with life now, those were the most honest, with the highest degree of integrity people under some very, not very pleasant circumstances that I’ve ever met. And so far as I know, the Japanese Americans today, and the last time I did a little study on it, as an ethnic group was the most highly educated, and the least criminal record of what---of any of our makeup of America. Now we’ve had some more come in since then, and I’m not as familiar with This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 19 �some of the others. But I’m saying about 10 or 12 years ago, to the best that I could look [08:00] and find, they fit it. And by being---I’m not sure that I could have done---been grown like some of them, could have done what they did. So you know, I’m rather proud of them. I’m glad we’ve got some Americans. CREW MEMBER: Speed. ELLINGTON: All right. We did some visiting with some of the ones who was in the camp. Because I think we’ve stated we’d come in and out through the camp a lot at the time. And today, somebody from another camp I was talking with them, they said, “How did we get in and out? Did we have a pass?” I said, “No, we just drove in, drove out, drove through.” And I think probably Jerome and (inaudible) may have been a little more lax than some of the other places because it was rather isolated. [laughter] One road in, one road out. INTERVIEWER: Personally, do you remember what was the purpose of your visit? ELLINGTON: Well, it would have been friendship, because Daddy had gotten to know some of them. And when he worked, and then in the process of his entrepreneurial bootlegging, got to know more. And one in part[icular] stayed with us a good bit out there. He would have been kind of a scout or whatever for it. And we got to know his family; the ?Manjees?. They were from Seattle. George and his brother Jimmy worked, he was kind of in charge of the mule lot. I remember Jimmy, and this wasn’t back then [10:00], but he told me years ago, I finally found him when visiting. That at time too he let the mule out so he could take a trip and scout around the country and visit, looking for him. [laughter] And his mother---their father was a World War I veteran. So you know, it would have been extremely hard for her and them to come in. There was a family from Hawaii, and I cannot pronounce the last name correctly. Now they were out at the house some, and they had a son who was about my age, he may have been a little older, and a daughter that was probably a tad under. And I know he and I used to entertain ourselves there, and she---his little sister running along on her little short legs couldn’t keep up, but she tried catching the chickens with a wire and crook on it that he showed us how to you know, make. And then some of the ladies, and either her or Miss Manjee or some of the others taught my mother how to cook rice so it would be the same every time. My family has always been rice eaters. We didn’t raise rice then, but even Daddy said that he was raised up was eating rice because it’s a good food for you, it absorbs flavors of others, and it was cheap. So you know, we’ve always had that. And they also showed mother how to use some soy sauce to soak and tenderize meat. So we learned a lot from them in that respect. Coming in and out, I remember a time or two [12:00] we’d be coming and we’d be approaching big (inaudible) from the east. And all of a sudden, it looked like a bunch of turtles sliding off of a log as the upper, older boys and the young men would be bailing back in the big (inaudible) because they were swimming in their birthday suits. So [laughter] I remember it wasn’t then, but a few years later, I got to know and be friendly with Sam ?Maboo?, and he said he might have been one of those little boys, because he was a few years older than I am. But talking with a couple of the ladies, it---well meeting our reunion a couple years back, they were talking about how some time they would---they call it sneak under the barbed wire and go to Jerome, maybe get you know a Coke or something. And I asked them, “Well, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 19 �why did you do that?” Except going under the wire was a lot closer to get to Jerome than it was going to the main gate and getting out. They would have had another half mile to their walk. But the guarding and all there was pretty lax. INTERVIEWER: I wanted to ask you. You were talking about all of these different recipes and cooking hints that your mother got from the people there. What was your favorite dish? ELLINGTON: Well, it wasn’t new recipes as much it was just how to do a better job of cooking rice. And then how you could use soy sauce to soak a piece of tough meat that would make it tender. But as far as you know a new recipe, they’d come up with something like it, it wasn’t that. It was just a way to improve what you were doing. But back where the workers had their---[14:00] was raising the produce. Now, this was in what was a colony that was designed---it was called Deep Elm. And it had about six miles of gravel road, and the way it teed off and on, there was a house on the---ever 40 acres off of the road, and then there was still some that hadn’t been done. But it was designed for people to come out of some of the hills and mountain where it was poor to a more fertile ground because they had a new, good house: outhouse, smoke house, chicken house, and a barn. And they were built in the ’30s, and they were wired for electricity, and we got electricity out there in 1948. So as you know, we would go through the camps and maybe be over to Manjees’s or the other family that I can’t pronounce. And we’d have to go to the bath house. Well, my brother and I kind of liked that because they had running water, and had electricity, and didn’t have to pump the water. And some things that was considered an inconvenience from what they had left in California, we kind of thought was rather luxurious. But the men and the older boys had a pretty good chore in the late summer and in the fall, and even some in the winter was cutting enough firewood. Because it wasn’t as much coal use as they use in the potbelly stoves and all was firewood. And they would cut it, bring it in, split it, and stack it, and they’d have some pretty good sized stacks you know, of that to go on. And for a family maybe a celebration, or a birthday, or something [16:00] of some sort, some of them would cook a little on their potbelly stove. Maybe you know, some chicken or something that they may have somehow or another wire worked to have got the ingredients that it would have been more of a traditional Japanese meal, and not what some of the mess hall was. Because a lot of the mess hall was pretty well, as I understand, based on maybe Army provisions. And it wasn’t necessarily some of the things that they were used to. And I remember Daddy procuring chickens for them. They got where there wasn’t a chicken for sale nowhere around there, you know. But they---now I never did eat any of that, and they would you know coming through the camp or to the camp a lot of times, the---and particular on Sunday afternoon, it looked like a lot of the mothers and the children would be behind the camp, walking down the gravel road. You know, just a stroll. And I just remember how colorful the dresses and all they were. You know, just all bright colors and walking along. And that’s the same road that the boys had to if they couldn’t hitch a ride on the Army truck to get back here to take---you’d go swimming. And in the berry picking time, some of them back behind the camp and north, there was what was called a deadening. Where the trees had been girdled and killed with arsenic and a mixture of lye put in that girdling. And a lot of berry bushes, vines, briar patches [18:00] had taken over. And so they would pick the blackberries, and would supplement their diet and then dewberries, and get covered with chiggers. Because that---at the reunion I made at ’96 in Torrance, California. One of the main questions that the internees was wanting to know: do you still have fireflies? Do you still have the chiggers? And is the water still soft that you can’t hardly get soap off of you in the shower? And it was yes, yes, yes. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 19 �INTERVIEWER: What are chiggers? ELLINGTON: A chigger is a little-bitty red bug. Now, he is not much bigger than a pinpoint. And he’ll get around your shoe top, your (inaudible) top around you. It seemed like more so around your waist or whatever, and he’ll bury in. And when you locate him, it’s a---he’s bright red from blood, and it gets rather itchy. And if you start scratching it, well then you can get your little, you know, infection like any other scratch. They are a nuisance, and I am highly delicious to them I guess. Because when my brother and I started clearing land with the stumps all back and behind the camp where we’re farming now, well, that’s the camp. In 1953, a red bug would not get on him. He’s never had one, and they would eat me alive. So you know, when you’d come in at night, you’d have to use something in your bathwater to take them off, and mother had some Germ-Trol, and I don’t remember whether it was Watkins Company or from some other. You put about a fourth of a cup in [20:00] your bathtub, and you could kill them and get rid of them. But some of that was a little on the interesting side. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: We’ve heard people talk about some of the other life around there as far as . . . ELLINGTON: Well, one---some things I never gave much thought to. But I met a lady at the reunion in ’96, and she did not know that there had been much interaction between any of the internees and any of the locals. And I spoke at the reunion, and she’d come around afterwards. But she was the block, she was over (inaudible), and she had six children, so she didn’t get out. But she was asking, and she said she really had a hard time letting her children get out of sight or what but on account of the snakes. Because it was a low, swampy area and we did kind of have a rattlesnake haven, a moccasin haven, and a copperhead haven. All three of those which are poisonous. Now to go along with that, we had plenty of garden snakes, chicken snakes, king snakes, blue racers. INTERVIEWER: Never heard of that one. ELLINGTON: The blue racer? Well, it’s a black snake. And you could mess with him sometimes, and you can get after him, and he’ll take off. You turn around and run for him, and he’ll run after you. And I think that’s why it was called a blue racer. And he’s about the same snake that out in the hills they called them coach whips. [laughter] They’re---and also around the swamp and a lot of those real marshy, stale, boggy, stagnated bayous and [22:00] ponds we had a mud snake that people call a stinging snake. And there’s folks, there’s old folks at home that would swear up and down that they could sting a tree, and the tree would die. You know, their bayou is full of that stinging snake. It was a very sluggish snake, and it would hit at you with its tail, but he did not have a stinger. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: Now, I wanted to ask you, you had mentioned earlier that for you, by comparison, the lodging and the amenities there as far as you know, the showers and running water, electricity. These were things that you, who lived in that neighborhood, didn’t have yet. ELLINGTON: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 19 �No, we did not have it. Now, on the barracks, they were not---I mean they were tough because they were made out of every what kind of grain wood that under the hurry up circumstance it would start drying and kind of crack. And knots would fall out, and it was covered with the tar paper. As a consequence it was rather cold, and they did have---and when they started moving in, there was basically no partitioning for a family that just had a certain---you know, like a floor space, and an entrance. And as bad as that was, after they got the tar paper and all, you’d go around to a lot of the farms there’s up and down Bayou Bartholomew and some of other places to a lot of the sharecroppers weren’t any better off. Because they lived in what was referred to as a shotgun house. There was normally somewhere between 12, 14, 16, 18 foot wide and maybe from 36 to 48 foot long. In---[24:00] no, it may have two rooms, it may have three rooms. And the reason it was called a shotgun because all of the doors were in line. You could shoot a gun, the bullets go all the way through the dell. And a lot of them were board and batten. Which the---and a lot of it was cypress lumber on those sharecroppers. But the boards may be from 10 inches, 10 inches some of them up to 18 inches wide. And then as the cypress dried, it would create cracks in the wall. And then the other board was now near the batten. And they were not sealed either, a lot of them. I mean you---that’s all you had between you and the elements. They did not have the tar paper on the dell that the---like the camp had. So but one thing the camp did do, both Jerome and (inaudible), it put some cash money in some people’s hands that in essence had never seen cash money. Everything had been done on scrip or been on down---they’d jot them down the book; charge account at the end. But everybody in southeast Arkansas, eastern Mississippi, and northeastern Louisiana that could pick up a hammer or a saw becomes a carpenter and building that. And generally, they would have a few folks in charge that knew what they were doing like my grandfather and some more. So the others could build, and you know of course you had to dig ditches for the sewer line, and all of that. But those people saw some cash money that had never seen any. And then some of the other local folks, if you had a clean corn crib, [26:00] or a barn or something that was clean and would feed somebody. Well then, for room and board, you know some of the other people that wasn’t necessarily working in the camp picked up some money from the workers. Because, you know, there wasn’t a Motel 6 or a boarding house on every corner. And it was a lot of people involved, and they were building both Jerome and Rohwer. And a little later---and I don’t remember what year that it was---but at Monticello, 24 miles west of Dermott, using the same type construction and all, and basically the same type of layout, there was an Italian prisoner of war camp built. And a lot of the folks from---or several of the folks from Lake Village, which was---had a large Italian population got jobs over there as interpreters. And might have---some of them might have been their cousins, you know. [laughter] But the Italians there were not bothered. And some of the elder, you know the immigrants, did not speak English still. And when I was in high school, I got out in ’55. Some of the grandmothers there in Lake Village still didn’t speak English. And if you tried to get a date with one of their granddaughters and she answered the phone, forget it. Because we had two strikes against us. Number one: we weren’t Catholic, and number two: we weren’t Italian. So you know, [laughter] that was just about as isolated in that respect [28:00] than it would be at trying to date one of the Japanese girls. You know, if---but of course, at my age four, five, and six along then, I wouldn’t have---I didn’t know what that was, I learned later. INTERVIEWER: Given your age, I want to still ask you: what do you recall of any discussion of the difference in the amenities that your home had? You know, the idea that you didn’t have electricity or plumbing---indoor plumbing---versus well, here’s this camp, these Japanese people are coming there. They’ve got things you haven’t got. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 19 �ELLINGTON: Well, that was a bone of contention from some of the local people. You know, that we had visitation with some of them too, and some of them resented the fact that here Uncle Sam was providing them electricity and all of this other. Of which if you did not live right out there on that main line, you didn’t have electricity. And even if you lived on what---you know we still call it the main line---if you didn’t have enough of the dollars, you still didn’t have electricity. And I was---at that particular time, my grandparents didn’t have electricity; not from the high line. Now I remember, he had a Delco system. And so it was later on that he run---that the lines got run and he only lived and like where I live now is a quarter of a mile off of the main line. So you know, most of the electricity at that time coming through wasn’t necessarily so many of the homes. You know, the business and whatever, and then (inaudible) you know from electricity from up here to down there somewhere. [30:00] So it was . . . But you know, it’s one, particular Japanese man and he was from the rice growing area, and he had some sons. And I do not remember his name, it’s been so long. But they went back, and he had managed to hold onto his land, and went through some lawyers, and you know some more stuff. Which some families held onto theirs because they had a Caucasian friend or something that kind of looked after it, and took care of it ’til they got back. And some, I think they even went so far and maybe traded some property. You know, they sold it to this one, and when they got back, it was sold back to them, you know. But it was not a lot of that. But and I remember he drove a government pickup, and Daddy always called him the number one. And I remember him sitting there, I’d forgotten what brand he’d drink, but he would take a nip, and him and Daddy discussing. Well, I’ve heard a lot of their discussion of sit and watching, and didn’t make as much meaning on me as I---through the years. But afterward different circumstances, I heard Daddy quoting him. So you know, there’s been some things that worked out pretty good, and some that didn’t work out. But I recall one man---and again I wish I’d have been old enough and with a tongue limber enough to have spoken the names. But when you’re not---when you don’t hear them, you don’t see them every day. And I always put the accent on the wrong thing, that’s why I don’t do good in Spanish. I don’t do too good in English either. But [32:00] he had been in Europe in the service, and had been, I’m going to use the expression almost blown apart or shot to piece, I don’t remember. But I remember when he and some others that some of them had been wounded or had not got shipped out yet, you know. They were up visiting from Camp Shelby. And they would come out to drink beer or whatever. And this particular one, I remember for about a week, every day they came, and then those others got shipped out. But he laid in the front yard on a blanket in the sun. And he literally the scars, and whatever, he had just been through hell. And I’ve often wondered did he live or did he die? Or you know, what happened. And that’s one of the things, not knowing names and people get gone, and you lose contact. And it was a long time after they closed the camp before I saw another, you know you might see a Japanese in Arkansas. A lot of them that when they left, like George Manjee---well, I mentioned him before---he wound up in---the last account we had of him---was a butcher or whatever in the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York. And then, you know, I---and then I didn’t hear no more of him ’til I run into a nephew at the ?Torrance? reunion and found out where he lived. He was living with his brother Jimmy in ?Tuscadera?. So I went to visit him, and I really enjoyed the visit with Jimmy and his wife, and all, but George had no memory of it. [34:00] Of the camp, or he didn’t even remember New York, or anything. Until a little old kid, you know George was my hero. Like I said, he stayed with us, he a lot---he had followed a rodeo circuit, and the horses some, and he thought he could ride anything that had hair on it. Well, we had an old mare that he couldn’t ride. She was---she threw him one Sunday afternoon. Now he might have had a little juice that messed him up This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 19 �some, but she threw him to the middle of (inaudible) kid, watching. And he went above the top of a black snake, which (inaudible) burnt down tree. You know, the buzzards could have built a nest on him before he hit the ground. [laughter] But that horse would buck, too. She’d give out, throw you a quit, and go back. She was just an outlaw. And then another time, we were going to ride the bull. There was a big, Hereford bull, but he wasn’t going to ride it like you normally ride it. He’s gong to ride it, sitting on it backwards. Well, that kind of throwed him pretty good. [laughter] But his brother Jimmy was a little---was more stable. And their mother was an extremely gracious lady, and she lived to be right around 100 years old, or a hundred. Because I had---I called up with some of the history of when I did stop, when I went to visit Jimmy. And he has been retired, and lives at Seal Beach now. And about two weeks ago, his niece, who I had met at a reunion in October of ’07 in Las Vegas, she called me and I spoke to her uncle. She was taking him out to eat, and so I spoke to Jimmy again. And I don’t remember, [36:00] he was about 92 or 94 on this birthday; 90 up. He has gotten to be, you know a senior citizen also. But he was a little more stable than his brother. His brother had a little (inaudible) in him. [laughter] A little wild side or whatever. But I mean when I was a little kid, boy it was a lot of fun because he was good to go. [laughter] [pause] INTERVIEWER: I wanted to ask you, you know your family seemed to have really kind of mesh with the Japanese community there in Jerome, and gotten well really well. How typical was that of other---of the families, the Denson families? ELLINGTON: It probably wasn’t as typical. It was more unique probably than some of the others because like I say, Daddy had done an entrepreneurial enterprise called bootlegging on. But and then there were several Caucasians working in the camps and various things; some women and all. And how friendly some of them were, you know what got and what kind of exchange they had, I don’t know. But I do know so many of them didn’t live, and then their off time come in and out of the camp like we did because of the proximity of where we lived, and that being a shortcut. But when I went to Atascadero to see Jimmy and George, George shocked me because he asked about an old, black man. And I said, “Well, Jimmy, how’d you know him?” Because he lived over on Bayou Bartholomew. Which the way you---any way you want by the road to get there, and you had to go by the road because you couldn’t cross that break had to be two miles from camp. [38:00] And Jimmy kind of met him and some of his looking for the horse at times. And then going over there and fishing, and he would trade on (inaudible) with the old man. I’m saying old man because he was kind of old and elderly. When I knew him, you know because I knew the black man. And he’d trade some fish for some watermelons, or you know they’d do a little trading. And but---and Jimmy and the old man got pretty close. And the old man’s grandson just retired from working at (inaudible) seed company, which is at Jerome. And the grandson when he was a very young man, he as a kid he worked for us some back in the camp. And his grandfather, Abe ?Munyan?, Daddy let him tear down some of the warehouses that were on the verge of falling. You know, deteriorating because of the roofs. So this would have been probably in the ’60s, but Daddy let him tear down some of those bar[rracks], warehouses and he built his church out of them. Because Abe in latter years was a preacher. It may have been then, I don’t recall that, but he was the years that I knew him as well. But he built a church out of those, and then Frank, that was his name was Frank ?Cokely? is the grandson’s name, and a super fine fellow. Daddy let him have some of those---tear those warehouses down, and he built his house out of them. INTERVIEWER: What’s the name of the church? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 19 �ELLINGTON: I don’t know. [40:00] It would have been the kind, the Pentecostal persuasion, I don’t remember. And right now, that particular church is not in operation because we don’t have a lot of people there anymore. Where you used to have somebody on about every 40 acres, quarter of a mile coming around that (inaudible), there’s no one there now; very few. But Frank built his house out of [pause] those salvaged warehouses. And it’s his---some of his kin folks now, I won’t say it’s his mother’s. It could be his stepfather, I’m not sure on that, lives in---they live in that house, and that has been improved on. And Frank who was in the house, and he bought it from the black friend that bought it from a brother, and moved it. And it’s been added on to some, but he lives in one of the houses that was one of the over---you know the honchoed houses in the camp. So . . . INTERVIEWER: What’s the name of the guy who owns that house? ELLINGTON: Now, Frank Cokely. INTERVIEWER: How do you spell his last name? ELLINGTON: C-O-K-L-E-Y I believe, or C-O-K-E-L-Y. Well, we have some more Cokely’s, and they’re spelled different. But---and that house is still there. And then the one that he built is still there, and of course the church that Abe built is---you know, it’s kind of growed up and weeds all around it. But it’s still there last time I went by. So you know, some of the stuff was salvaged. Now after in the early ’50s, I remember on some of the warehouses [42:00] there was some rice stored in them. Somebody put some new tar paper on, because we didn’t have rice stored, and it was under the dell. And they would slide the rice out the back for the truck. Now we did that at the Italian camp in Montesella, because we had hauled our rice at that point in time to a little elevator that a man we was farming with and all had built a little elevator. And when we got it dried down, we would take it out to those warehouses and slide it out. And I got a truck driving lesson. I think I was 13, and we went to (inaudible) and bought an elevator with a little gas motor, and it let on top of that two ton truck. We come back, my brother and my cousin was making me drive, and we got to Montesella, and it’s built on a square, and I went around and squared it the wrong way. Folks got out of the way. [laughter] But that---you know, that’s kind of wandering off of here. Now, I do know that some of the ladies that worked in there got friendly with some of the other ladies, but I don’t think that you had as much visitation as a couple of---some of the men and whatnot did because of the different circumstances. INTERVIEWER: Was there a---what was there in the way of a general store in the area of the town? ELLINGTON: Of course the camp had its own store, about a half a mile off the south border in Jerome, the town of Jerome they had sure enough a general store. Because it had been the store when the mill was functioning, and it just fell in a few years ago. But they had moved out on the hallway. [44:00] And when you went in there, and when you’re talking about general, it was general. You could get some patent medicine of every what---you know, was that time. Cod Liver Oil, and three sixes for Grove’s This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 19 �Chill Tonic. I remember those because we went swamping, we was subject to the mosquitoes and malaria. And don’t you say you’re sick because they going to give you a dose of Grove’s chill tonic or three sixes, and you’re talking about bitter. I think it was straight quinine. And but you could get horse collars, you know a harness for your mules, you could get meat. Because it did have a cooler, and I think the best thing in the world that old dried salami and bologna. I wish we’d get it now, see if it was good. And the post office was there, you know in one corner of it. If you needed kerosene, of which we called cold oil, you know you could get it. There was a gas tank if you needed gas for your car. It just---every what a person, it was the super market of its day. More so than some of the supermarkets today because they don’t necessarily have your parts or your equipment. Like they had the harness, the bridles, and if you needed some horseshoe nails, or some horseshoes. Or if you needed nails to build a barn, well you had it. It had the bins of fatback salt pork. It was just a general store, it had a---the drinks, and that’s where the girls said they would slip under the wire to go down there. They had to walk about a half a mile. INTERVIEWER: [46:00] So you do know of people that did actually go to that general store? ELLINGTON: Yeah. I mean they said they did. I wasn’t at that general store, I don’t know. But I do know along about Christmas time, they kind of wore out (inaudible) Montgomery ward catalogues like the rest of us. But they did use some of the Army trucks and the buses, and they did carry some of the internees to like Portland or maybe Dermott, Lake Village to the surrounding towns if they had any money, they’d do some Christmas shopping. Because one of the men, who his family owned most of Portland, he and I discussed that several times because he talked about . . . INTERVIEWER: How far are those towns? ELLINGTON: Well, Portland 12 miles south. Dermott is seven miles north. INTERVIEWER: I want to ask you to clarify a phrase you used. You said, “Most people kind of wore out those catalogues just like you did.” How did they wear them out? ELLINGTON: Using them. And when they got outdated from ordering stuff like you know last year’s, then they become the official toilet paper of the outhouse. It [laughter] ---my brother and I had entertainment, you know? Like, we didn’t have television. We didn’t have electricity. The battery radio was turned on for the news, but when that catalogue come in, then, we’d sit down. That page was mine. That page was his. You know, both the . . . And you might have to swap a few items [laughter] if one of us had something you might want. Of course, the only thing we ever got out of it was clothes. And my mother---we were very fortunate that my mother [48:00] was an expert seamstress. So she made our clothes. Man, I wore many a flour-sack shirt. [laughter] ’Cause in those days---and if you went to get some kind of sweet or what, for a cow, it’d come in a cloth sack---you know, a big sack. And you matched the patterns. If you went to get some more flour---a sack of flour to put in your flour barrel, you got the patterns, because that was either gonna go into a dress or a skirt or a shirt or, you know, whatever. And, the internees---they used the catalogues to get clothing also. Now, some, on their trips to town, could---you know, could buy This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 19 �some. But, you know, that catalogue wasn’t as important to them as it was to us, because they had bathhouses, and we didn’t. We had a path, not a bath. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: [laughter] And what did that path lead to? ELLINGTON: It led to the outhouse. But then, we was sophisticated. We had a two-holer. [laughter] The unsophisticated folks. The unsophisticated folks, they only had a single hole. [laughter] INTERVIEWER: How did bathing take place on the farm? ELLINGTON: Well, if I would probably pull down my britches and moon ya, I’ve probably still got circles on my behind from taking a bath in a number two washtub. Or it may have been a number three. But I---I mean, and that happened---plumb on up. But---and the water would come out of the pump. We didn’t turn no faucet. You had to pump it. But, look at my---’cause it was hard. But I think we---and---[50:00] we learned responsibility. So when you---in those d[ays], when you got big enough to work, you had a job. It might have been gathering chips to---kindling---to make kindling, to light the fire. It may have been gathering the eggs. You got big enough that you can swing on the pump handle, you might have had to pump water for the livestock. Gather eggs, different things. And I think this was one of the things that hurt the Japanese families that was in the camp. Because they didn’t---they were not at home to really do the---their children to come up on the same responsibility, and talking with some of them. And I saw it to an extent that I didn’t know what I was looking at, that kind of want to eat with their friends, or, you know, run with their friends. And everybody’s right there. And in California---the wasn’t just right there. And so, they were not coming up, you know, knowing that. INTERVIEWER: I wanted to ask you a little bit . . . You know, I preface again by saying, keeping your age---your youth---in mind, that--ELLINGTON: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: ---how aware were you of any discussion about what was going on in the war in Europe, or in the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? ELLINGTON: Right. I remember Daddy, and particularly some of the men out in the camp, more so, talking about it. Because---actually, right there, in that period of time, we had more Japanese American visitors at my house than we did, you know, Caucasians. Then my grandparents would come out of, whatever---’cause Granddad would come get us. He had a pickup. We didn’t. And [52:00] they’d t[alk] some, and I remember them talking about what was taking place. And I did not see it, other than the men that laid on the blanket. But I remember Daddy talking about that in the camp, when a family would receive the word that a husband or a son or a brother had been killed. And---’cause he said, they suffered and cried and mourned, just like we did. Daddy did not have a very high opinion of the Roosevelt administration, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 19 �because of what was done there. And I’d say, he probably buy his---go back to his entrepreneurial business [laughter] He had more contact, and then talking with what the ?Juan Hill? was referred to as number one. He learned more than what most people would have known. And I heard some of that, but it---’cause I’d sit and listen. But I don’t recall remembering just that. I picked up some of that later, that I’d hear Daddy talking about it. ’Cause he could go on a tirade. ’Cause within 12 hours, anything that would be considered bad, they’ll be (inaudible). All the rest of it was political. And then, of course, Daddy was mad at that government project---that colony---’cause they was clearing up land where he wanted to squirrel hunt. [laughter] So . . . Roosevelt didn’t enlighten himself when---you know, when he did that to them. ’Cause as he said, those mothers and fathers in there---they in pain, and they cried for theirs, and here they did not [54:00] have heirlooms and stuff, that some families keep. And some of those things that they burned, or---it would have been good if they buried it, to where they went back and got it. But a lot of the stuff was destroyed, that you could not put a value on, because of the age, and what it meant to the family. INTERVIEWER: What about the local Jerome inhabitants---the original people there---your neighbors? What do you recall of family members---of those families---sons or husbands that went to war? Anybody that may have died? ELLINGTON: Right there, in that little local, I don’t remember any that, per se, died in the Pacific theater. Now, there were some that died in the European theater. Now, up above us, out from Rohwer and McGehee, there were some that died in the Pacific theater. And I did not see it, so I---you know, I just knew that people talked about it. One man got word that his son had gotten killed in the Pacific, and I think he went downtown and shot one of the Japanese internees that were down . . . I don’t---didn’t kill him, but he---you know, he shot him. So that feller would have had some bad feelings. You know, and some of the others, particularly ’cause they’re trying to---you know, you equate some things, not on its own merits, but by association. And which---that’s one of the wor[st]---and, I mean, we’re still guilty of that. You got to our schools, you go to our community, and, you know, “Don’t run with the---that’s the wrong crowd. Birds of a feather flock together,” you know? All the---you know, my grandmother always told me, “Pretty is as pretty does.” And I always tried to [56:00] make sure I didn’t do anything---get caught doing anything that could get back and embarrass her and the family. I wasn’t always pretty. [laughter] Towar[d]--- and then, of course, is---you’re aware---Jerome was actually the last camp that was open to people (inaudible). And it was also the first camp to close. ’Cause in ’42, that---when it hit the beach and all---the closed the Jerome cen[ter]---location center. And those---the remaining internees could go---had a choice to go to the interior or another camp. But as soon as they had got there, they were encouraged to go get a job. But they had to go out of state, because before the governor and all would let the camps be built in Jerome, they got the government to commit, and got some legislation that they could not own property or work in Arkansas, which was a little bit on the unconstitutional side. But they did bring in---put up the---sure enough--- prison wire, around the camp. And they brought in German prisoners of war. And the German prisoners of war---the number was long---it was either ’54 or ’56 that they (inaudible). I don’t remember. I do have a article at home describing some of it, that has the number. But there were several other, lesser-size camps---Robinson and a few other places---that had German prisoners. But Jerome had the most. INTERVIEWER: We have to stop and change our tape there. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 19 �ELLINGTON: All right. Well I’m about run out--- [57:58] END OF AUDIO FILE 1 BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO INTERVIEWER: It became kind of a social center for you at the camp, and your interactivity with either people in the camp, or them coming to your house, as you stated. What was it like when you left? ELLINGTON: Quiet. [laughter] In the last days, when they were leaving, it was kind of like Grand---Grand Central Station. Because some six (inaudible) would show up that was loaded with various things that they had borrowed. I remember canisters of like, chocolate mix, or some strawberry mix or whatever, they didn’t much like them, and that---but when they left, they brought a lot of that out of the mess halls, and all. Because there wasn’t no way we could eat it all, so the hogs got, you know they got a little chocolate. And there were some things that were rationed pretty good that---the food there, and they’re leaving, going to help curtail within that, to ration a few things. But it was quite cushy, you didn’t have the men coming around, and then your mother didn’t see those few ladies that she knew, and you know coming, so it---it was a change. But you know, we say life goes on, you get busy, you get---you lose one thing, you start going---and for several years after that, I’m going to say at least four or five, (inaudible) got letters from several. He never answered a letter, because I mean you’re gone, I’m here, we did it, we can’t continue. You know, on---because distance, we didn’t have to travel. And I remember we got a box of cherries shipped from Washington, or Utah, Idaho, somewhere where they were -- where they grow cherries, and -- and something -- you know what, some things like that, that they would ship back. Some, some food, but, we did not have that much of a social life, and of course (inaudible) we didn’t have that much social life, because you go back to the isolation, and the transportation. INTERVIEWER: How for you---for you personally, what did you miss? ELLINGTON: Well, I missed trying to get them guards to let me shoot their gun, and they didn’t have no bullets for me to shoot that gun. But I---I---I missed going in and through the camp, and looking. You know, like on Sunday afternoon, granddad would pick us up, we’d go up there, and the ladies, and the little children, smaller children, out walking. And they would be behind the camp, or maybe inside the camp on the outpost road. You know, I miss seeing the---some of the old men sitting on a bench, or a keg, or a box or something, beside some of the buildings. I found out later that they were carving, you know, or making things. Some of the deal. And you know, you just miss that. And at times now, driving in, back on that road, same road, something will trigger it, and I can just see the barracks, and see those folks, or I can see the ladies walking, or the men out in the fall, trying to gather the hickory (inaudible) or the (inaudible) or just generally getting out of the camp. And---and just something triggers it, and you can see it. Like you know, one of the main triggers is standing at my kitchen sink, looking out in the backyard at the fireflies. And there’s two or three that I particularly think of when I see that, but I did not know them then, and I know them now, Sumisiki, I look out, you know, and I see her. I met she and Don, and you know they just, oh that---well they just feel like family. You know. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 19 �INTERVIEWER: What, after they were gone, and uh, now this camp becomes a German POW camp. ELLINGTON: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: What---what was the change in---I guess now the social aspect, and ability to go in the camp isn’t quite there, but how did that either benefit or not the other people? ELLINGTON: Well, it curtailed our going in and out. Because you had---you know you went through the guard, and they had bullets in the gate and everything, but still, some of the German prisoners were out. Now they’d have a guard, but they worked. You know they -- some of them picked cotton and did several things, all volunteer. But there was one that come back and visited, and he’s retired and lives in Houston, south Houston. He said they had ways of encouraging you to volunteer. He said, no one was mistreated. But he said the ones that didn’t volunteer, for breakfast they may have beans, and potatoes. For lunch, they may have potatoes and beans. And for dinner, they may have beans and potatoes. And he said two or three days of that, you know, and them looking at the others over there that have got meat and you know vegetables, and milk, and you know, some more things, he said some of them decided they might try to pick a little cotton. [laughter] And---and they were out, because once, I was going down one side of the bayou on our place, I think I was looking for the milk cow, and I heard the darnedest jabbering, and carrying on that you ever saw. It scared this little skinny boy. So I cut a trail for the house, but I got to a little clearing where I could see across, it was six Germans. A soldier was with them, and what they were doing on Crooked Bayou, they was looking for some cypress leaves. And some little things off of cypress trees, and they could find the particular type, and they cut them, and carry them in. Now, the Japanese did a lot of cypress ?makes?, they got the bark off of them, and polished them, and did---made some things and whatever. Because George Takei says one of his prize possessions is his father’s cypress ?makes? and it’s on his desk. So they did it, but I don’t remember any Japanese coming out to our place to get it, because that same (inaudible) bayou meandered around through where they had their truck patches, and then the break, and over on (inaudible) where they were---they had other places that they could get the needs, and why---why the Germans were on our side of the fence, you know, I don’t know. I mean it just---I wasn’t looking for them, but once I saw what it was, well I went home and found the cow. INTERVIEWER: And how much interaction did you actually personally have with any of the German POWs? ELLINGTON: Very few. Very little. On some of that, and maybe---some of them would be at the guardhouse there at the---with the soldiers. I learned a few words to cuss. But I’ve forgotten that. INTERVIEWER: How---how handy did that, that serve you? ELLINGTON: [laughter] It got my butt whipped in school one day. The teacher happened to understand German. [laughter] I forgot it after she got through with me. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 19 �INTERVIEWER: [laughter] What impact do you feel your life has had---because of the contact you had with those people during the war? ELLINGTON: If I---if I would say one thing, I believe that it reduced me being---and I’m going to use the term a bigot, or a racist, as much. Because I saw what was happening, and---and had a gourmet, listening to Daddy and the old man, and then Daddy reiterating some of it through the year, talking with other people when they’d---you know want to say something, want to know something about the camp. It got me to where you look at the person and what’s coming out, not what we look like. And---and I have tried to practice that to this day. When I meet a person, they’re either this or that. Now after I’ve been around them for a spell, I may put them in this category down here. Because I know all the language of the racist vernacular. And I hear a lot of it used a lot of times, and people are not being racist when they use it, but they certainly have heard it all their life, and to an extent we don’t know any better, because the relocation center there at Jerome, for years it was called the Jap camp. And it still, some reference is made to the Jap camp. And most of the people that use it are not using the term derogatorily. Because at that point in time, that was basically the only term, you know, that we need. And we’re a lazy people, in speaking. Now you take a southerner, if he can shorten a word, it’s shortened. I mean if we---we can leave a few syllables out, and if you want to see just how bad it is sometimes, in our language, read Jeff Foxworthy’s Southern Dictionary. Now you know, I hear that every day. Now we’re improving on it, but we do shorten words, and now some of the people use the term derogatorily. But the majority did not. And we have learned since then that it’s not a good term for the recipients of the word, so you---you know, most of us, we try our best not to use it. Now we may slip, but we---we---we try not to, and it---and some other of our racist words. And what I admire about the Japanese, more so than some of our other groups, is that they don’t use the term either in conversing with one another, or on television, or whatever. They’re not trying to make money using it, or doing something else. It---it, they use honorable terms, and don’t get into some of the other. INTERVIEWER: Looking back, what do you feel that was accomplished by these Japanese American soldiers that fought for the country in the war? ELLINGTON: Well, they---they helped win it. No question about it. Possibly it may have even helped shorten it in Europe, because they were some fighting demons. And they go for broke, feel it. Because---and how they could do it, I don’t know. Because as we’ve heard from some of the sessions, and all, that they---a lot of them’s parents was behind the barbed wire. And there, they were trying to prove, and did prove, the loyalty and everything else that should have never been in question. I--I think they played a big part. And if I’d had some kinfolks over there that they pulled out of the fire, I’d have thought more so. INTERVIEWER: I want to kind of, coming up to the close here, and ask you, out here, this property that you visited all this time, that your---your father was---used as his former hunting grounds. What happened to that property? ELLINGTON: You’re talking about the colony that I referred to, Deep Ellum colony. All right, after the war, I may have not mentioned back earlier, but there was some Caucasian families in there that got displaced, they had to This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 19 �move out so that it could be used for the Japanese farming, for the vegetables and whatever for the camp. And they raised enough that it pretty well took care of the camp, and helped to---some surplus was shipped to Camp Robinson, which was the Army (inaudible) in Little Rock. Some come back to that, and since that time, there are some people that held five acres and sold the rest. And---but there’s one family that they still own theirs, and the other, they still had all the---his 40, I believe he may have sold it recently, because he’s about four or five years older than I am. And he was the only one left, his other family moved. And the vast majority that will go back to (inaudible) and Seed Company owns it. (inaudible) Company, because they had the money and bought it. And Big Doc Russian had bought 60---160 acres back in the ’20s or the early ’30s. Because Daddy met him in the ’30s through hunting. And we had been together with them, descendants and everything, since. And they’re the ones, (inaudible) and Seed Company, it’s the one that owned the picture of the packet of seed, or rice, that the people that attended The Life Interrupted in Little Rock received. It had the seeds there on one side, and the monument of Jerome on the other side. INTERVIEWER: And the--ELLINGTON: And they own most of it. INTERVIEWER: The property of the camp itself? ELLINGTON: No, the property of the camp itself, a man by the name of Mr. Parker bought it when the war was over with. And he was an old oil man, had some restaurants, maybe a hotel, and was a gambler, and he’d won some money gambling, a pretty good sum, allegedly. And bought the camp, and then we bought it from him, because---so he liked Daddy, but Daddy didn’t lie to him. And he tried to give us some more land that he had, but we couldn’t take it, because at that point in time, we couldn’t have paid taxes. And we were under such tight allotment, like cotton and rice, that you couldn’t have planted anything on it but soybeans, and soybeans were a $1.80 cents a bushel then. And you couldn’t---you know by the time you tried to clear it and all, you couldn’t have made any money. And we couldn’t have held onto it. But Daddy had the first right of refusal on somebody that bought it. And Hadley Sydney bought a lot of it there, and some that was off, but filling in their block, they bought a lot of it. But then when he had the camp, and then behind the camp, we bought it to join the 160 that we had. So in behind, we farmed all of it, but there’s still 414 acres back there that we started off on, clearing, that a family that bought it after the war, and they bought most of the Jerome colony, particularly what was in Chico County. Two brothers. And they split, then one of them took what’s on the north side, and his descendants, they’re still the landlords, and we’ve been farming it since then, what, 53, how many years, and we haven’t had a contract since the first year, I think. And I---I don’t see it, the only time I see them generally is if I go up there to see them. INTERVIEWER: My last question for you is, why is it important for you to come to these reunions? ELLINGTON: Well, when---I started meeting some returnees in ’65. And since some years you come on up more so, and you know, I made some friends, and they invited me to ?Torrance? to a reunion, and I got out there, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 19 �and found out I was the dinner speaker. [laughter] In any case, Rishima gave me one of his drawing, you know, and then you know, come on with the summit, because---because the money had been put up for---by the Rockefeller Foundation for there, but you know, I enjoy seeing and meeting the old friends. And making new friends. And it’s surprising, I mean to hear this time that---how many have come up. You know, you don’t remember, but I met you, I was in Little Rock, or I was here, and you know, 90% of the time, we’ll get it there, I can remember them. But I can’t remember their names. I won’t remember their names time I walk out, because most of the time, I can’t pronounce them. Because I don’t hear them every day, and don’t use them every day. Because it took me several years to be able to get Kasherishima right. [laughter] Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else you’d like to say in closing? ELLINGTON: No, I---I’ll probably think of a half a dozen things, or whatever. But you know still, I think we’re indebted as a country to the Japanese American soldiers, just as much as we were to the---I’ll use the term Caucasian soldiers, and we had black soldiers that did not get to do the fighting and whatever, but now that’s changed. But they did serve in the, you know transportation and other things. We owe them a debt. We had Latin American soldiers fight. We owe a tremendous debt, I think, particularly to the Navajos, who were the wind talkers. You know so yeah, you know, that, there’s a big place in our history and in our country for, and they have been extremely beneficial. As I’ve said earlier, on the educational level and the prison level, you know that’s commendable. I mean it’s just kind of like I met a Japanese American in 1961, in Dickinson, Texas. At a barber shop, because I was renting from the barber, and he was an Italian. And very Italian speaking, you know accent, because Dickinson was an Italian town pretty good, like---like village was at one time. And when the man got out of the chair, he was an older man, I asked him what camp was he in. He wasn’t in a camp. His father had come to that area and located some land and whatever, and went to Japan and got his family, and I think a few more, and they came, and he made his first rice crop in Webster, Texas, in 1906. And then later on, I went to Rice Tech---at Alvin, Texas, which is just right there, and the farming community they know everyone, and the Rice Tech was working on a hybrid rice, and that chocolate ball facility in the Rice Tech was owned by the prince if ?Lithenstein?. But when I went in, I’m going to use the term little Japanese, because to me was, you know, a little smaller, is sitting over there, so I bobbled over there and asked him what camp he was in. He was the son of the old man that I’d met at the barber shop. And he had retired from ?Nossur?. So, and when all the local farmers and stuff began coming in, well it’s just like any farming community. They knew everyone, you know the old home way. But they---they had never suffered any of the (inaudible) and I met another family too, when I was there in Dickinson teaching for a few years. See, but they weren’t on the west coast. INTERVIEWER: I’m going to wrap that up there. ELLINGTON: OK. INTERVIEWER: Say---well you know, one thing I do want to, I didn’t quite tell the truth here. I’m going to ask you to just state one last thing. What’s your occupation? What did you retire from? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 19 �ELLINGTON: Farming. I---I was a farmer. Well now, I taught school from one year in Wilson, Arkansas, and we---oh yeah, we had a Japanese family at Wilson. CREW MEMBER: (inaudible) INTERVIEWER: Oh. (inaudible) What occupation did you (inaudible) ELLINGTON: Well, I quit, I didn’t retire, because when you retire you’re supposed to get a check, I didn’t get a check, but the last---since 1982, I was a full-time farmer. Did some rice (inaudible) so they had work on the side. But then ’59 and ’60, I taught school in Wilson, Arkansas. And there was a Japanese family there. Because I had met one of the boys, he went to Arkansas State, and I went to Arkansas State. And so, I knew him, but---and we were friendly, but we wasn’t drinking companions and all that, because was a little better caliber than I was then. Now today I might do---I never did ask his mother and father what camp they were in. Because now we’re looking not that many years, now he had some sister and brother in school, exceptionally good students, and the mother and father were at all the school functions, the oldest daughter was a cheerleader, and well---I mean in---in the school, you really wouldn’t have needed---they weren’t any different. But also had a---a---I’m going to use the term Mexican or two, because that was the term, that was before Latino, or Latin American. But I mean they were Americans, but Spanish descent. And you know, there wasn’t any difference there. But I---I asked later on, and the ?Sanos? were not here during the war, they were in California. And there was some deal that they’d come there to farm, and they farmed soybeans a few years, and then went back to California. And so I---I---even teaching, I---and I taught to school, to 1977. And I quit. Because between some of the things that was happening, the discipline, some of the court cases, and everything else, I knew I’d better quit, or I’d be in serious trouble. Because I believed in discipline. And you know, I---I give a lot of leeway, but now in---we could be very reasonable, but now that third time, your ass was grass and I was the lawnmower. And it began to get some---you couldn’t do that anymore. And so then in 1980, I got on the Dermot, that’s the local school board, and of the next 25 years, I was on that 23. So I---I did have that other side of trying to deal with some---I’m going to call it retardation and---in education, and responsibility of parents and whatever. We had a lot of things changed. And it’s time for that pendulum to swing back. And my brother wanted to retire in 1982---’81, at the end of ’81. And he sold the place. Verbally, they---they kind of had an agreement, and when he kind of checked what Uncle Sam was going to do on capital gains or whatever, he had a change of heart. [laughter] And asked me would I rent it, and so I rented it and took over, and there was some swapping and whatever, and---on the equipment, and some more land that had been acquired, and then I bought Daddy’s half. And it was when he died, what little bit, you know what I owed him, that half was taken care of, so I’ve been farming it since 1982. INTERVIEWER: On that note, we’re going to wrap it up. ELLINGTON: OK. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 19 �INTERVIEWER: And I’m going to say thank you so much for on the fly, agreeing to interview with us, and enrich us with you know, your knowledge of---of what was going on in Jerome. Thank you again. END OF AUDIO FILE 2 This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 19 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource John Ellington oral history interview, July 5, 2008 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource John Ellington oral history interview transcript [full interview], July 5, 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ellington, John: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 19 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-07-05 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2008OH0890_T_Ellington https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/91d7b645dd7116dc15aecac0089110bc.pdf 8dbf8db467bdfcd35c9fcc16c5e6b84a PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with Jimmy Motoyama, September 11, 2006, Denver, Colorado CREW: [0:00] This is an interview with Jimmy Motoyama and Virginia Motoyama on September 11, 2002. We are in Denver, Colorado. The interview is Darrell Kunitomi. On camera is Joanne Leivici, and on audio is Gisela Shimabukuro. CREW: OK, we’re ready to get started. INTERVIEWER: OK. So we’re gonna check our sound, so how far did you guys drive to get here today, to the hotel? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: We drove here approximately eight miles south from where we live. INTERVIEWER: And you live in where? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Arvada. INTERVIEWER: Arvada. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Yes, Arvada. INTERVIEWER: That’s a suburb of Denver? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Yes, sir. INTERVIEWER: Ah. (inaudible) Now, Jimmy, what, what year were you born? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Nineteen---1919. October the third. INTERVIEWER: So you’re how old right now? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Eighty… VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 19 �Six. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Eighty-six. How much is it? Nineteen nineteen and… INTERVIEWER: Wow. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Your birthday is coming up. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: That’s great. That’s amazing. Now, have you lived in Colorado your whole life? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, I was born in, born in… VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Eaton. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Eaton (inaudible). INTERVIEWER: Now, where is Eaton? I’ve never heard of Eaton, Colorado. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: It’s north, north of Denver. It’s about 30, 40 miles from--VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Yep. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: ---Denver. North of [02:00] Denver. INTERVIEWER: That must be a small town, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: It’s a country town. It’s about 10 times as big as when I lived there. It’s only---it’s farm, farm lands. People just farm there. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Were there many Nihonjin around? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: There was---I don’t know. Four or five families, I guess. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 19 �INTERVIEWER: So--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: They all, they all lived ?in town?. (inaudible) We lived in Eaton. Well, we, we farmed Bruce Eaton’s farm place. He’s a senator from Colorado. INTERVIEWER: Also, the town was named after this guy, Eaton. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: I see. Now, what kind of stuff did your family grown on this farm? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Oh. Sugar beets and…It’s a big farm, so sugar beets and cabbage, I guess. INTERVIEWER: Now, did you have to do a lot of chores when you were a boy? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. We run the place. I lost my dad when I, when I was only---I don’t know. Seven or eight years old, I think. INTERVIEWER: What happened to him? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: He died. They claimed he was---he smoked and he shouldn’t be smoking. He smoked anyway. But he died from…I don’t know. Died from some kind of [04:00] sickness. INTERVIEWER: Then your mom had to take over and, and work the farm? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. Well. This was after we moved to Arvada. We just had a 10-acre farm in Arvada and raised vegetables and strawberry and raspberry. INTERVIEWER: So all the kids had to work real hard, then, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. It was---well, three of them were little, little younger than I am. Rest of them are all older. I had---we had 10---I had 10 brothers and sisters. Six, six sisters and four brothers. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 19 �Wow. That’s a big group. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. Ten, ten kids in the family. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember all your brothers and sisters names? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. They were still---I was…Well, I was 10, 12, 15 years old before they---lost them. INTERVIEWER: So did you go to the regular schools there? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Oh, yeah. Walking distance from our farm. INTERVIEWER: Were the kids OK to you? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: What do you mean OK? INTERVIEWER: Were they mean to you because you were Japanese? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Oh, the---at school, they did. When I was in grade school, they used to really make fun of me. “Slant-eyed Jap” and all that. INTERVIEWER: You get in any fights with them? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: All the time, every day. But I, [06:00] I went to a small, very small church when I was young, so I used to take care of them. Even if they were 10 times older and bigger than I am, I just take care of them. Because I learned to (inaudible) when I was young. INTERVIEWER: So you were the tough little Jap boy, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I was the what? INTERVIEWER: The tough little Jap boy? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 19 �Yeah, that’s for darn sure. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah, I was the slant-eyed Jap. All through the grade school, I went through school, they used to take advantage of me. But I was---I took care of myself all right. INTERVIEWER: That’s good. Did you have a, a fun time growing up with the family even though--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Did I have what? INTERVIEWER: A fun time growing up with the family? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I don’t know what you mean, because we worked all our life, even---there wasn’t such a thing as fun, fun time. My dad, he really made us work. As soon as we get up in the morning, until we went to bed. INTERVIEWER: So around the home, did you guys speak English or Japanese or both? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, we didn’t know any Japanese. But I don’t know---we knew a few Japanese words, but it was mostly English. INTERVIEWER: You have any time to go fishing or go hunting? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: No. No, we worked. Like I said, we, we run a ?garden? [08:00], ?garden? farm, so it was busy all the time. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: You wanna talk about your baseball games, though? You were, you were able to become sports enthusiast. INTERVIEWER: Oh, you played baseball? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Baseball. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 19 �Baseball and basketball when I was in school. Played a little bit. Well, we had Japanese, Japanese league in baseball, so. INTERVIEWER: What position did you play? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I played catcher and shortstop, I think it was. INTERVIEWER: Wow. You remember if you had any baseball heroes, like Lou Gehrig or… JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Do I have what? INTERVIEWER: Did you have baseball heroes, like Lou Gehrig? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, little bit. Never had that kind of time. INTERVIEWER: Now, you guys were way out in the country, so it was different for, for you guys compared to the West Coast, where there were a lot of Nihonjin. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Where were you on December 7th, on Pearl Harbor day? On the farm? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: December 7th? INTERVIEWER: Do you know when Pearl Harbor--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: What’s Pearl Harb[or]---oh. No, I was on the farm. Yeah, I guess. I was only, I was only seven or eight, I think, years old or something. INTERVIEWER: No, you had to be older than that. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Yeah, you had to be older. Weren’t you in service? I thought you had gone to service by then. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Oh, yeah. That’s right, yeah. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 19 �VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: I thought you had gone to service. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I was…Was I in service? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: I thought you had gone in the late ’30s. Let’s see. [10:00] Because you were born in 1919, and I think you were… JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, I, I--VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Drafted. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I got drafted when I was not quite old enough to be drafted. I got drafted. I was---I needed one more year to become a soldier, but they drafted me anyway. Could never understand that. INTERVIEWER: Wow. That’s funny. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. I can---I could never understand that. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember where you did your basic training? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: In southern United States. Some place in the Florida area. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Texas? Was it… JIMMY MOTOYAMA: No, not Texas. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Not Texas? Oh. INTERVIEWER: Maybe Shelby? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Shelby? Is that an Army camp? INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 19 �Fort Shelby. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I think it was next door to that, Fort Shelby. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: What did you do in Biloxi, Mississippi? I’m not sure what---was that a… JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, that’s a---that’s where I had my basic. I think it was---yeah. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Oh, OK. In Biloxi, Mississippi? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, I think so. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Southern… INTERVIEWER: Do you remember hearing about the Pearl Harbor attack? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, that’s, that’s---I think that’s why we got drafted, I think. Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Now, was your family interned in the relocation camp? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: No. No, they, they moved to Colorado and bought a farm there. We weren’t in the internment camp. [12:00] INTERVIEWER: Now, eventually, you joined up with the 4-4-2, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Eventually. Well, they, they…The---I had no choice. I was a Jap, slant-eyed Jap. INTERVIEWER: Now, there must have been a time between when you got drafted and when the 4-4-2 was created. Some guys, the Army didn’t know what to do with them, and they made them gardeners and stuff like that. Because they didn’t have any place to put the Japanese. Do you remember that? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Sure, they got put in camps. I call them concentration camps, but it was just, just a camp. To hold, hold them. Hold them together, I guess. I don’t know nothing about that, because I wasn’t drafted. I mean, I wasn’t in the camp. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 19 �INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Well, what, what did the Army try to do? Because they didn’t know what to do with the Japanese ’til the 4-4-2 was made. You know, so, do you remember being… JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, that’s why they were in camp. What, what did---what---they were all put in camp. From camp, they, they, they formed a 4-4-2. INTERVIEWER: OK. Now, do you remember the company you were in? Company… JIMMY MOTOYAMA: ?No.? INTERVIEWER: And you went overseas to Italy? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, southern. We landed in southern Italy. We, we got---well, we rode in the boat. [14:00] Boarded at New York, and took us a week or something to get to Italy on the boat. INTERVIEWER: Did you get seasick? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. But that’s why I used to go out in the deck and lay down on the floor there. Fre[sh]---get the fresh air. INTERVIEWER: Was that your first time going on the ocean? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Because you were from Colorado. You were from way inland, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: You must have been real seasick. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. [laughter] Yeah, I was---I got sick. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 19 �Now, you probably ran into all kinds of guys from Hawaii, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, there, there---well, let’s see. When---well, when was it when we…Well, it was in some place in the United States, northern United States. That’s when we joined up with, with the Hawaiians. INTERVIEWER: Were they, they hard to understand, because they had that funny accent? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: What do you mean? INTERVIEWER: Well, some guys from the mainland never heard that kind of talk. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: So they thought they were, like, wild aborigines. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I don’t know, but they really made fun of us mainlanders. INTERVIEWER: Oh, how come? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, because, because we were foreigners to them. That’s why, that’s why they used to call us (inaudible) and (inaudible). They used to really make fun of us, until we got in the front line and then they changed their attitude toward, toward [16:00] mainland Japanese soldiers. INTERVIEWER: Now how come they changed their mind, because you guys were fighting as good as them or what? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, we were, we were a lot of braver. I don’t know why, but we was, we was real brave. We, we, we didn’t stop for nothing. INTERVIEWER: Now sometimes, the mainland ?contok? guys were fighting with the Hawaiian guys. Were you one of those guys getting in fights with him? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, I guess so. I don’t remember stuff like that. INTERVIEWER: I bet you did. [laughter] This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 19 �JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. [laughter] Probably did. Like I said, they used to make fun of us. They were slant-eyed Japs, but they used to make fun of us. INTERVIEWER: So you went into action pretty fast, huh? When you got to Italy. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. We, we had very little training. INTERVIEWER: And you were like a---in a platoon, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I was in like a what? INTERVIEWER: A platoon. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, the, the Army’s made up of platoons. INTERVIEWER: What I mean was you were a foot soldier. You weren’t a guy in a tank or--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Oh, no. We were foot soldiers. We were soldiers. INTERVIEWER: And were you a private for most of the war? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: No, I was a, I was a sergeant. I got a medal for a good, good, good leader. I was a sergeant, so---well, most of the companies, they, they had their own leaders and all that, but my, my company, I, I led them. I didn’t have to, because I was a sergeant, [18:00] but I led them to the front lines. INTERVIEWER: I’m gonna put this right here. Why don’t you hold this right here while we talk about this, huh? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: OK, and hold onto it. INTERVIEWER: Now, this, this is a great picture of you, Jimmy. How old were you in this picture? Maybe, what, 21? When you were over there in Europe? Maybe 21 or so? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Mid-20s, I think. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 19 �JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, something like that. I think I got---I got discharged when I was 24 or something. INTERVIEWER: Now, you won a medal, right? You got… JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Silver Star. INTERVIEWER: Do you recall what that was for? It was for a battle, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, I don’t know, but they only give it to guys that are brave and do something that’s, that’s---what do you call it? Honorable or something. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember if you were scared when you were fighting? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, you ain’t kiddin’. But they were, they were, they were shooting at us like mad, so we soon got over that. Anyway, I did. INTERVIEWER: Were they shelling you? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, they were shooting the hell out of us. All kinds of, all kinds of shells and everything. It, it used to come down like rain on us. INTERVIEWER: So when you were leading the men, was that like 30 guys in a platoon or in a small squad? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: No, there’s a---I forgot. Twelve, twelve in every squad, and there’s four, four squads in a, in a platoon. INTERVIEWER: Now, let me take a look at this here. [20:00] There’s a clipping from---it may be from the Stars and Stripes, an old newsprint clipping here. And I’ll just read it. “With the Sixth”--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Maybe it’s from the Arvada Sentinel. INTERVIEWER: Oh, it could be from the hometown paper? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 19 �Yeah, they, they had a big write-up for me. INTERVIEWER: Wow. “With the Sixth Army Group France, Lieutenant General Jacob L. Devers, Commanding General of the Sixth Army Group, which includes the US Seventh and French First Armies, has authorized the following awards. Silver Star to Sergeant Jimmy K. Motoyama, Arvada, Nevada, for gallantry in action on 27 October 1944 in France. When his platoon was pinned down, and cut off from the remainder of the company by the fire of a superior enemy force, Sergeant Motoyama voluntarily took command, placing another man in charge of the platoon. He crept, crawled, and ran from tree to tree for a distance of 500 yards to contact the remainder of the company for aid. With men from the weapons and first platoons, he returned to his unit to give covering fire, which would enable the platoon to withdraw to safer positions. Disregarding his personal safety, he made his way from foxhole to foxhole, to instruct each of the men in the plan of the withdrawal, and with excellent covering fire from the reinforcements, the platoon and the wounded were able to reach safety.” So that was in October 1944, France. And--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, just before we got retired, or discharged. Pulled off to the ?far? line. INTERVIEWER: Do you ever think about those days when you were a young man running around--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Are you kidding? I wouldn’t forget that. [22:00] I wouldn’t forget it the day I, I left, left the Army. I mean, left the war. INTERVIEWER: It was bad stuff, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Oh, yeah. Yeah, what do you expect? They shot at us like, like we was, like wild animals or something. INTERVIEWER: Well. If it, if it weren’t for, for guys like yourself, my, my generation wouldn’t be here. The, the frame that we just showed has a Purple Heart, and there are two, so you, you had a wound, huh, on--JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Your arm. Is it OK now? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Oh, yeah. INTERVIEWER: So could you work OK after the war? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 19 �Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, yeah. What kind of work did you do when you got out of the service? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Gee, that’s so darn long ago, but I, I---I don’t know. When was it? I went to work in a machine shop. And then I worked there for a couple, three years, and then I, then I was, I was a skilled, skilled machinist. That’s why they promoted me to do precision work. INTERVIEWER: Wow. Now, how did you two guys meet? [24:00] VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Well, long story short. One of his sisters was living in Montana, and she had moved her family to Colorado, and I had met him at his sister’s place. And we hooked up together at his niece’s wedding, and the rest is history. INTERVIEWER: Now, he’s a feisty guy, huh? VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Oh, yeah. Very much so. I mean, you can probably tell, there’s, there is a lot of age difference between us, but what was unique about this fellow is that he was always young in his philosophies, the way he interacted with young people. I mean, he was very much always into that. Always concerned about being properly educated and knowledgeable about what’s going on in everyday life, so. That was kind of a genuine part of his characteristic that I really was impressed with. INTERVIEWER: You still have a good appetite? You still eat real good, Jimmy? What’s your favorite food? Japanese food? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, you know. I like…almost any kind of Japanese food. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Sweets. A lot of sweets, huh? INTERVIEWER: I know you’ve got teeth problems. [laughter] VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Yep. INTERVIEWER: Now let’s see. Let me just take a quick look at your questionnaire here. Do you think there’s still discrimination in this country after all the Nisei went through, [26:00] and now it’s 60 years later? Do you think there’s still discrimination? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 19 �JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I think so. Slightly, I think, yeah. But not too much. Don’t even notice it. INTERVIEWER: Do you stay in touch with some other Nisei around Denver? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Do I what? INTERVIEWER: Stay in touch with some other Nisei around Denver. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, all---most of them---well, because they have their own bowling team. I mean, yeah, they, they made up their own bowling team. INTERVIEWER: So you’re still bowling? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, trying to. INTERVIEWER: Are you, are you pretty good? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I used to be, but that was some years ago. INTERVIEWER: How do you spend most of your time these days? Do you do some gardening? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, not too much. I got a, I got an extra-large garden, because it was---the, the, the---what do you call it? A lot that’s… VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Oh, yeah. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: A lot that’s a little bit bigger. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Extra-big. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: A little bit bigger than ordinary ones. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 19 �VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: We made a, we made a big mistake. We were talking the other day about, when you’re young, you look at things so differently. So when we bought our home, it had a nice big yard, and we said, “Oh, this is perfect.” We didn’t want a real small one, ’cause we were still into gardening. And then as we got older, [28:00] and we still had to do our yard work, you say, “We really didn’t bargain for this.” So we really didn’t want a big yard. So, you know. Visions through your eyes when you were younger and when you get older are so different. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: But he still does---he still likes to get up there and trim trees and bushes and everything. Had to take ladders away from him because he fell down several years ago and hurt his foot, and it’s still not fully healed. So, you know. But I guess the Japanese ?strain?, you know. You just have to---you cannot sit idle very long. Otherwise you’re considered lazy or nonproductive, right? So. Probably ’til the day he departs this earthly world, he’ll be moving around his ladders and in and out of his garden. That’s him. INTERVIEWER: Do you think the Nisei were a big part of America, what they did during the war? Guys like you? I know you told me downstairs, “Ah, that’s a crock of stuff.” JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah, I don’t know, I don’t know what you mean. They, they accept us, if that’s what you mean. I think. INTERVIEWER: Well, you know, all those kids that used to call you “Jap” in school, you showed them, didn’t you? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. I used to beat them up. [laughter] Even a big old six-footer, I used to beat him up. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: You ought to tell him about your experience with George West. You know. George West is a former classmate. And it’s kind of interesting. The class still gets together once a month for lunch, whichever members [30:00] are left. And this George West was a gentleman who evidently, in youth---you know, you have so many different influences. And when we started meeting with them as a class, it’s amazing how communication breaks all kinds of barriers. Each of us gets smarter about one another. So this George West has become one of the nicest friends and confidantes, you know. So it’s, it’s a positive story in that respect, that you didn’t have to beat up on someone in youth later on in life. The man educated himself and remembered that there was a major contribution made by a Japanese schoolmate. So that’s one positive side on his. INTERVIEWER: That’s good. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Yeah. But if I could add something, too, there are, there are three people that came into Jim’s life in different parts, from, I would say, the late ’70s through the ’80s, and that---those are three previous This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 19 �military friends of his that came into his life. We’ve lost one in Hawaii. But it was kind of funny. We were in Hilo, and Jim says, “You know, I have a friend, I think, lives here.” So we happened to look through the telephone pages, and met up with him, and that was one wonderful reunion. ?Never had happened.? Then another one happened when we went to Seattle and looked the person up in the telephone book. Had a reunion with him. The third person, who is in Berkeley---I’m not sure if he’s still alive now or not, but anyway, he was the third person in his company that started communicating at Christmas, through Christmas cards and all. So you know, those are kind of the nice, positive reflections of his military service that has occurred since the war. INTERVIEWER: Do you recall the names [32:00] of those… VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: I knew you were gonna ask me. I’ve got the names of these people, yes. One is ?Mitso Takahashi?. He’s in Seattle. OK, and---if you’ll bear with me. I have to---they may not be in here. Can I give it to you later? I’ll give you the names of those people. INTERVIEWER: No problem. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: But---oh, just a minute. They’re in this other book. INTERVIEWER: OK. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: Excuse me. INTERVIEWER: That’s all right. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: OK. The first one was ?Toshido Matsushika?. He was in Hawaii. He passed away. And the third one, in California, is ?Turo Nobodi?. He was living in Berkeley last time we heard. But these are the three gentlemen who reentered his life, post-war experience. INTERVIEWER: That’s great. There are some other guys that were probably in your company and I don’t know if you might remember. ?Howie Homnamura?. Real tall guy. ?Howie Homnamura?. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: That’s so long ago. I don’t remember. INTERVIEWER: He was tall. He was about six three. Real big guy. VIRGINIA MOTOYAMA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 19 �Oh my goodness. INTERVIEWER: He got wounded in Italy, and these guys were carrying him off the hill on a stretcher. And 50 years later, they ran into ?Homnamura? and they said, “Yeah, you were way too heavy! We almost dropped you!” [laughter] General ?Koshiwa?. No. ?Don Zecky?. You weren’t one of those guys that climbed that cliff at night, were you? [34:00] Remember the 4-4-2 guys went up that cliff at night in Italy? It was pitch black. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I don’t know. Maybe I did. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t hesitate on anything. So, so that’s why I was, I was a leader, but I, I took responsibility and did it myself. And, well, led everything. And that, that was my duty, it was. INTERVIEWER: How come you were so brave, Jimmy? Was that because you were a tough kid growing up in Colorado? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: I don’t know. I don’t know why. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember if your brothers and sisters were proud of you? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Well, that, I don’t know. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever come back to town in your uniform, your old hometown? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Did I ever come back? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: What do you mean? INTERVIEWER: In uniform with your medals? Did you ever show your friends at school? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 19 �No. But they had---oh, no. Well, I don’t know. Like I said, I read a Sentinel. I don’t know where they found the information and everything, but they had a big write-up in the papers. INTERVIEWER: Everybody in town knew you. You were that little slant-eyed Jap who became a hero, huh? JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: That’s good. Well, we’ve been very honored to have you here today. I know it’s hard and everything, so [36:00] thank you so much for coming in. And, and we’re glad we got your interview now. So, you know, it’s for the history. JIMMY MOTOYAMA: Yeah. Of course, I don’t---it’s been so long ago, I don’t remember anything, but… INTERVIEWER: Well, we won’t forget you. END OF AUDIO FILE 1 This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 19 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jimmie Koji Motoyama oral history interview, September 11, 2006 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jimmie Motoyama oral history interview transcript [full interview], September 11, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Motoyama, Jimmie: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 19 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-09-11 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0716_T_Motoyama https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/5946f254c43d9437e8356730e83e10ca.jpg 47d67c448f0fef5d75f55819c1d9efba Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mary Yamamoto Shimizu album Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shimizu, Mary Yamamoto: creator Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Description An account of the resource Album belonging to Mary Yamamoto Shimizu depicting life events including commencement ceremonies and social activities in Long Beach, Los Angeles, Massachusetts and Dartmouth College. The bulk of the photographs are of George Shimizu as Mary Shimizu curated photographs of herself and her then boyfriend, later husband. Photographs of George Shimizu vary in topic and geographic location including Long Beach, Dartmouth College and Mindanao (Philippine Islands) where he served in the Military Intelligence Service. Mary Yamamoto Shimizu is also shown traveling to Heart Mountain Incarceration Camp. Album is maroon and bound. George Shimizu lent the album for digitization after conducting an oral history in 2016 with Go For Broke National Education Center. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource images/jpg Extent The size or duration of the resource. 66 pages, black and white Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource between 1938-1946 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Los Angeles, California Long Beach, California Hanover, New Hampshire Mindanao, Philippines Powell, Wyoming Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Mary Yamamoto Shimizu digital collection Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2016.007.01 Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mary Yamamoto Shimizu album, page 36 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2016.07_01_036 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shimizu, Mary Yamamoto: creator Description An account of the resource "Toyo and Amy" friends of Mary Yamamoto Shimizu in the snow in Denver, Colorado. Subject The topic of the resource Social activities Identity and values--Women Type The nature or genre of the resource Photographs Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 page, 3 black and white photographs Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1943 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/ff30a91e6fba811c2a34354c2f8d7379.xml dfe12f7968b9344b807d462024e78af2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Susumu Yenokida oral history interview, July 6 and 7, 2008 Description An account of the resource After Yenokida was drafted into the army, he refused to report for service and was court marshaled. He was sent to a prison camp in Tuscon, but was later transferred to Texarkana Maximum Prison. He was released in 1944, but was unable to move back into Amache Concentration Camp to be with his family. Instead, he found work as a farmer. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/895-Yenokida-Susumu-4.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1925 Jan 28 Location of Birth Turlock, California Incarceration Facilities Merced Temporary Detention Facility Granada (Amache) Concentration Camp War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Conscripted Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Susumu Yenokida oral history interview, part 4 of 4, July 7, 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yenokida, Susumu: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2008OH0895_04_Yenokida Description An account of the resource Yenokida discusses his time after his imprisonment, working in Denver, farming and shipping vegetables with his brother. Later, they would head back to Cortez to visit their mother and start their own farm, which ended up having over 3,000 acres of farmland, until President Carter decided to have an embargo on Russia, which ended up causing the farm to close. During that time, his brother would drive up to Tule Lake Concentration Camp to help those who did not have anywhere else to go and gave them jobs on the farm. Next, Yenokida discusses the redress and reparations that were given to each family and what it means to him. Finally, he speaks about the legacy of those that went to the camps, served in the war, or took a stand against the government. Subject The topic of the resource Japanese Americans--Post-World War II Industry and employment Laws and legislation--redress and reparations World War II--American Concentration Camps--Tule Lake Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:49:09 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008 July 07 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado alien land laws California Colorado compensation Cortez cowboy Denver embargo Farming legacy mother President Carter redress and reparations Russia shipping vegetables stigma Tule Lake Concentration Camp yume https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/07740e1cec7dd4b95556fe2bb7eb2e1d.xml d260c04fa53d4a86d84da1734b32a093 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview, July 5, 2008 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/892-Yoshida-Fusae-3.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1927 Aug 26 Location of Birth Tacoma, Washington Incarceration Facilities Pinedale Temporary Detention Facility Tule Lake Concentration Camp Jerome Concentration Camp Heart Mountain Concentration Camp War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview, part 3 of 3, July 5, 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yoshida, Fusae: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2008OH0892_03_Yoshida Description An account of the resource Yoshida discusses traveling to Jerome Concentration Camp and discusses her experiences there including food she ate, weather, living conditions, attending dances, going to school, and interactions with Hawaiians. Next, Yoshida discusses leaving Jerome for Heart Mountain Concentration Camp and discusses her first impressions, friendships, job, clothing, prom, incarceration camp newspapers, and her father's wood carving hobby. Next, Yoshida talks about her life after leaving Heart Mountain which included moving back to Washington, discussing her and her father's employment; and moving to Oakland. Lastly, Yoshida discusses her husband and his employment; talks about her husband's family; discusses her children and grandchildren; provides a message to her children and grandchildren; and discusses the accomplishments of Nisei veterans. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--American Concentration Camps--Jerome World War II--American Concentration Camps--Heart Mountain Japanese Americans--Post-World War II Identity and values--Family Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:41:56 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008 July 05 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado children Heart Mountain husband Jerome living conditions Nisei veterans post-war life https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/cd92b4fe274367b00e34e12346ac27a4.xml d03f4a2413bab7715f3b6f0b76e96656 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview, July 5, 2008 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/892-Yoshida-Fusae-2.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1927 Aug 26 Location of Birth Tacoma, Washington Incarceration Facilities Pinedale Temporary Detention Facility Tule Lake Concentration Camp Jerome Concentration Camp Heart Mountain Concentration Camp War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview, part 2 of 3, July 5, 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yoshida, Fusae: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2008OH0892_02_Yoshida Description An account of the resource Yoshida talks about her father's sports interests and his gardening job; her parents' laundry business; her mother's schooling; and her knowledge of pre-war Japan. She then talks about attending Japanese language school; taking kendo classes; values she learned from her parents; childhood recreational activities such as listening to the radio, going to movies, picnics, and the beach; and the attack on Pearl Harbor. Next, Yoshida talks about the reasons why the FBI picked up her grandfather; discusses her family's landlord; talks about Executive Order 9066 and forced removal; and talks about the belongings she was allowed to bring after her family was forcibly removed. Lastly, Yoshida talks about her family's forced removal to Pinedale temporary detention facility and the living coniditions there; discusses traveling to Tule Lake incarceration camp and her experiences there includuing the guards, watch towers, recreational activities, employment, and leaving Tule Lake for Jerome incarceration camp. Subject The topic of the resource Identity and values--Family Education World War II--American Concentration Camps--Tule Lake World War II--Pearl Harbor and aftermath World War II--Temporary Detention Facilities--Pinedale Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1:00:43 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008 July 05 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Executive Order 9066 FBI forced removal grandfather Japanese language school parents Pinedale Temporary Detention Center pre-war Japan recreational activities Tule Lake https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/325b32a535375b12da7cfcf7a8e1bf40.xml c11190cc0884c00e066b43cb008a2637 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview, July 5, 2008 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/892-Yoshida-Fusae-1.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1927 Aug 26 Location of Birth Tacoma, Washington Incarceration Facilities Pinedale Temporary Detention Facility Tule Lake Concentration Camp Jerome Concentration Camp Heart Mountain Concentration Camp War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fusae Yoshida oral history interview, part 1 of 3, July 5, 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yoshida, Fusae: narrator Horsting, Robert: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2008OH0892_01_Yoshida Description An account of the resource Yoshida discusses her grandfather; and her experiences visiting Japan with her husband and daughter post-war which included visiting cemetaries and learning about her mother's family. She then talks about her mother; her relationships with her maternal grandparents; and discusses how her grandfather was taken by the FBI after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Next, Yoshida talks about her father's adoptive parents; her father's gardening hobby; discusses her childhood home; and talks about her siblings. Yoshida then talks about childhood chores; meals; her family's religion; discusses her great-uncle's funeral; talks about her participation in Junior YBA (Young Buddhist Association); her roller skating hobby; and celebrating holidays. Lastly, Yoshida discusses her father's participation in baseball tournaments; her favorite New Years food; childhood friendships; and her experiences attending high school while incarcerated. Subject The topic of the resource Identity and values--Family Social activities Child rearing Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:58:08 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008 July 05 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado childhood home FBI friendships gardening grandfather incarceration camps New Years parents siblings https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/071a4d2d5382267d293f5de185fc5110.jpg dd10b5db77093569c5e26698a23754a1 https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/f0c4cfa0fcc2e4d555664932b33fc83c.jpg b41481f9caa16d77878be1338f3b709e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilbert Tanji photograph album Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tanji, Gilbert: photographer, collector Description An account of the resource Gilbert T. Tanji served in the Military Intelligence Service of the United States Army. The album depicts aircraft at the Anacostia Airfield in Washington, DC and soldiers with whom Tanji worked and the Tanji family photographs including his children, wife and extended family. It also includes photographs of family in the American Concentration Camps and portraits of Japanese American soliders. The album equally depicts Gilbert Tanji and Mary Tanji's early adult-life, including Mary Tanji's eduation as a nurse and or dietician.<br /><br />Please see <a href="http://ndajams.omeka.net/collections/show/135" title="Gilbert Tanji oral history interview, May 17, 2003" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">here</a> for Gilbert "Gil" Tanji oral history interview, May 17, 2003. <br /><br />Some of the photographs are missing and text is written in their place. It is believed that these photographs were removed for a slide show, perhaps for a memorial service. Type The nature or genre of the resource Albums Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 photograph album, 79 pages Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Washington, DC New York City, New York Denver, Colorado Rochester, Minnesota Starke, Florida San Francisco, California Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2015.006.01 Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilbert T. Tanji album page 49. Denver Mormon General Hospital Nurses, Gilbert and Mary Tanji, Sargent Fujimoto Description An account of the resource Top row, left photograph: Medical nurse in full attire; Top row, middle: [Mary & Gilbert Tanji] at the top of the Empire State building, Oct. 1945; Top row, right: Sargent Fujimoto and sister; Bottom row, left: Nurses having a picnic on the grass [Denver General, Mormon Hospital Student Nurses, Mrs. Hall]; Bottom row, right: Nurses having a picnic on the grass. [Dietitian Kitchen picnic, Denver General]. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1940s Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Tanji-049 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1940s Subject The topic of the resource Industry and employment--Medicine World War II--Military service Type The nature or genre of the resource Photographs Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 album page, 5 black and white photographs Language A language of the resource eng Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado New York, New York Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/72d5021daf9b0b9e3d702799a6c95c33.jpg fd44e13fea350b2130251a8e7094267e https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/9e58b837cf091adb5bd98bdb4d75aa2e.jpg 70b8b81906fee9baf9f115dd05d2cd9b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilbert Tanji photograph album Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tanji, Gilbert: photographer, collector Description An account of the resource Gilbert T. Tanji served in the Military Intelligence Service of the United States Army. The album depicts aircraft at the Anacostia Airfield in Washington, DC and soldiers with whom Tanji worked and the Tanji family photographs including his children, wife and extended family. It also includes photographs of family in the American Concentration Camps and portraits of Japanese American soliders. The album equally depicts Gilbert Tanji and Mary Tanji's early adult-life, including Mary Tanji's eduation as a nurse and or dietician.<br /><br />Please see <a href="http://ndajams.omeka.net/collections/show/135" title="Gilbert Tanji oral history interview, May 17, 2003" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">here</a> for Gilbert "Gil" Tanji oral history interview, May 17, 2003. <br /><br />Some of the photographs are missing and text is written in their place. It is believed that these photographs were removed for a slide show, perhaps for a memorial service. Type The nature or genre of the resource Albums Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 photograph album, 79 pages Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Washington, DC New York City, New York Denver, Colorado Rochester, Minnesota Starke, Florida San Francisco, California Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2015.006.01 Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilbert T. Tanji album page 20. Watanabe and Uno Wedding in Denver Description An account of the resource At the top of the page, "Watanabe and Uno's Wedding," Images of the wedding. Last image on the page (left to right), group biking at Hains Point. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tanji, Gilbert: collector Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1940s Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Tanji-020 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Denver, Colorado; Hains Point, Washington D.C.; 1940s Type The nature or genre of the resource Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Identity and values Social activities Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 album page, 6 black and white photographs Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Washington, DC https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/7e6029d04bcf763090d5244a94636520.pdf 5108ec4b282b27f915ace1e0ab99554e PDF Text Text Go For Broke National Education Center Oral History Project Oral History Interview with George “Joe” Sakato, September 25, 2000, Denver, Colorado INTERVIEWER: We're here today at the Hotel Monaco in Denver, Colorado, it's September the 25th, year 2000. We are with Medal of Honor recipient, George Sakato. On camera and audio is Ken Shigemitsu, cataloguing is Marie DeMonteverde, and interviewer is Karen Nakamatsu Vargas. Thank you so much for being here with us today Mr. Sakato. We'll start off with asking you to state your full name and your date of birth. SAKATO: My name is George T. Sakato. But I was born---raised as Joe Sakato. My dad wanted to call me Joe Sakato and he saw G-E-O in the papers and he went to the doctor's but the vital statistics says your name is George Sakato. I was born and raised in Colton, California, February 19, 1921. INTERVIEWER: And your parents? SAKATO: My parents was Yoshitaro Sakato and my mother was Hatsu Kawado, maiden name, Sakato. INTERVIEWER: And where were your parents from? SAKATO: Iwakuni, Yamaguchi-ken, Japan. INTERVIEWER: And what made your parents decide to come to America? SAKATO: Well, my dad came first and he came and he worked up in the Seattle area then he come down and he worked in the railroads for a while then he came down the---to Colton area then he became a barber. He says he wanted to be a barber rather than to work in the railroad yards. My own mother came and she joined him, she became a barber. He had a barbershop and a bathhouse (2:00) and a pool hall area together. And we was in a big house on 9th Street in Colton. It was near the railroad tracks and the railroad stations so all the conductors and the brakemans and everything would come to---they would take a bath and get a haircut and shave. And so that's how our parents made a living as far as---rather than working on a railroad yard. INTERVIEWER: And your brothers and sisters? SAKATO: My brothers and I had---our oldest sister was Masako, and my brother, Henry, was next, then Ken, then my sister, Fumi---Fumiko, and then my---I came in the middle, then my younger below me was John Sakato, and James was the youngest. So then my older sister was married to Mike Matsumoto and then they had a baby and they---she died in the process of something internal. They didn't know the blockage had entered the intestinal---at that time they didn't know what it was. So she died and my This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 1 of 34 �younger sister, Fumi had to marry Mike to take care of the baby. And she was only 17 years old then and so she had to marry him to take care of the baby that was born. And . . . INTERVIEWER: (4:00) What was it . . . I'm sorry. SAKATO: But after that, I don't know. INTERVIEWER: What was it like to grow up in Colton, California with so many brothers and sisters? What were your--what was your typical day like? SAKATO: Oh, we would---my older brothers would be---we used to go out and play out in the street or else there's a big lot across the street from where we lived and there's---by the railroad tracks. And as we grew up, we used to have a big grape arbor in the backyard and my dad had some fish ponds and he grew all kinds of goldfish and fantails to eels to anything that swims, he had them in the pond. And then we would go out and play in the streets. And the pepper trees, big pepper trees, one day we had, in 1930, we had a earthquake and the pepper trees were shaking like this [waving his hand] and I couldn't understand what's---and I couldn't stand very well in the middle of the street I was rocking back [and forth]---that was my first experience in a earthquake. Then the railroad tracks has a lot of bums and hobos, in them days they used to call 'em, they would try to ride---catch railroad trains and then ride. One time one of the hobos fell and he fell between the tracks and he lost both legs and I tried to pull him out and I couldn't do nothing and so I had to call the hospital and then they finally came and but he lost so much blood he died. There was more troubles with the railroad tracks than the other hub city there's the Southern Pacific and the Union Pacific. There's a crossing where they met. That's the hub for the different railroads that came across that area. There's a hay truck come by one time (6:00) and he got caught in the railroad track. Train hit him and there was a fellow sleeping in the sleeper and I could hear him screaming and then he died in that flame. So I experienced death even before I went to war. Times like that was---growing up was---in the 30s and we were in the poverty areas---time of the period but we seemed to manage alright. My dad was---we were growing rabbits in the backyards, we had chickens in the backyards, we had everything going for us, and long as the brakemens needed to take a bath and had a shave the next week, we were able to make a living. I went to school when they first went to first grade my dad took us to first grade and it was about a mile away, I guess, so trying to walk home and I got lost. So I sat on the curb and I was crying and a policeman came by and he says, "I know where you live, let's go home." So he took me home. That was (inaudible). Though we walked the railroad tracks down to the streams so we had---used to go fishing for little small minnows and frogs and whatever, crawdads and come home. But we was able---we had a good life. We used to run---ski down the---skates around the city block. We were city slickers you might call. We didn't know what a farm was like. The poor boys had to work (8:00) on the farm. I experienced it once, and my brother, older brother, he went to work on a farm with my second cousins and we went there, we were supposed to work pickin' tomatoes and stuff. But they had a son that was my age and we used to chase rabbits and go swimming and stuff like that rather than work pickin' tomatoes. This is in Vista, California. We had more fun than San Diego than when we were in Mission Valley. We more or less went there for a vacation rather than to work picking tomatoes and cucumbers. So that was my first experience on the This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 2 of 34 �farm. And we grew up and then we moved to Redlands, California. We had a fruit stand and a meat market combination. So we was working there and I finished high school then. I graduated from Redlands High School. And we---just opened the store when the radio, Franklin D. Roosevelt was on the radio and said they had bombed Pearl Harbor. INTERVIEWER: I'm going to back you up just a little. You moved to Redlands. SAKATO: Redlands. INTERVIEWER: And started---that's when you first started high school. What was that like for you? SAKATO: As a freshman in high school, I did more playing than I should have, not learning school. I ran around with the wrong crowd, I guess, with rich boys in Redlands, they had all had cars. So when I---in my senior years we used to ditch school and---I was bad. But, growing up, I was a freshman I was a---played football but I was too small. Then my older brother--- (10:00) my younger br(other) below me was with us and he was a little bit bigger, taller and he was more huskier. I was the skinny runt. I was four feet ten and must have weighed 120 pounds. I played football and I couldn't hit the tight end that was on the other end and he was 6 feet tall and weighed 200 pounds and I thought I hit a brick wall. So that was my last days as playing football. And then my younger brother, he went---became a football player for the varsity team in high school. And we did well as far as school was concerned. And then we'd come home and we're supposed to work in the store, grocery store. We'd have to pick the vegetables and set up the fruit stand and the vegetable, lettuce and stuff we had to clean up and we had to get those ready. And so we was working pretty hard in this grocery store. We had an A&P Piggly Wiggly store two blocks down but that didn't bother us. Our clientele---people still came to our store where we had better meat products and stuff like that. So we was able to do real good---was doing real good when the---before the war broke out. INTERVIEWER: So your family was a group effort for your whole family . . . SAKATO: It was a family affair. INTERVIEWER: Did you attend Japanese school or anything in addition to . . .? SAKATO: Well, while we were in Colton we went to Japanese school. We would take a streetcar to San Bernardino which is about 3 miles away (12:00) and then we'd catch a streetcar then we'd cross over the bridge then to one area to where the Japanese school was. And so church also was there. And so we learned---we're supposed to learn Japanese and I took my football and my lunch and forgot the books. I did better playing than I did learning. I was trying to---I memorized one section of the Japanese book and I was---then the teacher's behind me and as I was going through the story I turn the page and I'm talking about the story then he says, "You know, you're pretty good, you can read down there what's on This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 3 of 34 �the other side of the page." [Laughter.] He got me fooled 'cause I memorized the story. And I failed the class. I did. I wasn't very much of a---as far as Japanese school, I don't---I can't speak it very well---so we speak half and half, half Japanese what I knew and then English. And then my parents at least they were able to speak a few English words and (inaudible). So my education was bad. I don't want other kids to follow my example. Whatever you do, go to school. INTERVIEWER: Did you have a lot of other Japanese/American families living near you? SAKATO: Well, we only had four families in Colton. Next door was a Japanese---two girls and a boy, and around the corner was four boys and we always used to play around (14:00) there together. Played kick the can and deflect that in the alleys and hide and seek. We did a lotta---always kids---it was a lotta fun. INTERVIEWER: So you grew up in an area where there were a lot more other ethnicities there were just a few Japanese/American families did that . . . SAKATO: Well, then San Bernardino had several families. And Pomona just to west of us Ontario and Pomona they had a few. They would come to Japanese school and then a few from Riverside used to come. But then the---in that area we, like, maybe 50 families around. INTERVIEWER: That was a pretty large . . . SAKATO: We had to learn kendo and every time I played kendo, the girl next door would beat me up. She was a little faster. Her reflection---reaction was a lot faster than mine, I---she come back and hit me right across the ears, jab me through my throat here. I didn't like kendo. INTERVIEWER: So what happened when you graduated from high school? What happened for you next? SAKATO: We graduated high school and then we had to work in the store. So I was working in the store and we had just opened on a Sunday. That Sunday we opened up the doors and I was listening to the radio, I had the radio on, and Franklin Roosevelt came on said Pearl Harbor was bombed. And I couldn't believe that they had bombed Pearl Harbor. That kinda (16:00) put a damper on things and we well, "What are we gonna do now?" And they gave us a ultimatum of either moving out or go to the camps. We had a relative that lived in---my brother-in-law had a brother lived in Phoenix so he said to come to Phoenix. So we just had purchased a meat counter cost $800 and in them days it was kinda high. And we had this---we sold the meat counter for $500 and we threw in the rest of the store and we moved to Phoenix. The fruit peddler that brings us our vegetables and stuff from Los Angeles, well, he said he would move us to Phoenix. So, while we could, we packed in his truck and we moved to Phoenix. We were on the south side of the tracks in Phoenix and getting ready to unload and then he says, "You're gonna to have to move to the north side 'cause people on the south side of the tracks had to go to Poston camp." So we moved again to the north side of the tracks. So we was living in Phoenix, Glendale This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 4 of 34 �then, north of the tracks, then we start working on the farm. I was never a farmer. [Interruption. Fire truck going by.] I was---I've never worked on a farm other than picking tomatoes when I was little kid and we just played instead of picking tomatoes. This time I had to start working on a farm picking cantaloupes. Hundred and ten degrees in Arizona and (18:00) I'm picking cantaloupes. When I graduated high school, I weighed 165 pounds. I was roly-poly you might say. I worked on that farm for two, three months and I really sweated it out. Finally got down to 135 pounds. I says this farming is not for me. There's a fellow that had ran a grocery store and he wanted---if I would help him, since I---we had the grocery store in Redlands. So I said, "Oh yeah," that was better than working on a farm. So I would helped out in the grocery store then. INTERVIEWER: Can we go back . . . SAKATO: Okay. INTERVIEWER: . . . just a little and when Pearl Harbor was bombed. Your family was really doing quite well for themselves. What did your parents, what was their reaction? SAKATO: Oh, they didn't know what---they were devastated, they didn't know what they---what we were going to do. So when my brother-in-law was corresponding with his brother in Phoenix and I was working---we didn't---we had the competition from the Piggly Wiggly store down---A&P's supermarkets---couple of blocks away but that didn't seem to bother people. We still had the clientele that would come in 'cause they wanted fresh vegetables plus the fresh meat we had. And so we were doing real good, I think. And to have to go and move, that was devastating. "A" we couldn't leave the area. (20:00) We couldn't go--we could walk a few blocks but we couldn't drive a car anywhere. So we had to stay at home. And so we stayed at home playing Monopoly or something like that, games like that, hearts and card games. Then after talking with my brother-in-law talked with his brother in Phoenix that gave us the idea that we should move to Phoenix. So that's why we moved to Phoenix. INTERVIEWER: So you went to Phoenix, you spent the summer working in 110-degree weather . . . SAKATO: Oh boy. INTERVIEWER: . . . lost 30 pounds . . . SAKATO: Yes. INTERVIEWER: . . . in the process, and then you got this grocery store opportunity, so tell us about that. SAKATO: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 5 of 34 �So when he offered me to work in this grocery store I thought, "Oh boy, that's just straight down my line." So I worked and helped in the grocery store and I delivered the groceries. In fact, we even delivered the groceries and mochi kome what they make them---what wine---people in the camps wanted mochi kome, is that how they make the wine, the sake with? The rice wine, the rice---sacks of rice anyway I think would make . . . INTERVIEWER: Mochiko. SAKATO: Mochiko. So I---we trucked that into Poston. And my kid brother below me, he went to Poston. We were able to visit the camps and come back out. So we---he visit the camp and he stayed in there for three weeks, wouldn't come home (22:00) 'cause they had block dances and they had all---and teenagers---they had it, you know, they, at that time the kids had it real nice. But they didn't like the idea of being in the camp. But as far as having block dances and meetin' various people in camps, my brother he liked that so he didn't, you know, he had cup of coffee, he could come home, so he came home. And that's the only time I ever visit the camps. I made deliveries of groceries to people who ordered it, 'cause they were able to come out---some were able to come out to work on the farms and go back to camp at that time. So that's how I visit the camp, various camps, but I didn't stay there like my brother did. INTERVIEWER: What did you think when you first saw Poston concentration camp? SAKATO: Oh I thought that---they had guards out there with rifles and machine guns. Then they had this guard tower up there, barbed wire fences, and I says, "Oh my God." Then the barracks, if you want to call 'em barracks, tarpapered shacks that I put my tool sheds in. But they're small and they only had four or five beds in there then you try to get a family of ten in there, they had a time. So I don't know how they did that and I was thankful that I didn't have to go camp. INTERVIEWER: You mentioned something very interesting that in Arizona, if you lived on the south side of the tracks you had to go to camps. But you---it sounded like (24:00) you had the option to go to the north side of the tracks and not go to camp. Do you . . .? SAKATO: While we were still in that period of a few days moving from Redlands to Phoenix. So when we finally--we got to the south side of the tracks the Japanese people there that lived there says, "Well, you better move again 'cause you gonna---you have to go to camp, visit the camps." So that night we moved again so we was able to move to the north side of tracks and stay with some families. We lived in a family's back porch you might say. They had a back room and area and another room where our parents lived we kids stayed in the back porch. We had a kind of a beds made in there. Fortunately, the weather there was warm and you didn't---it wasn't cold and you didn't have to stay indoors so we was able to still sleep in the---it was a screened porch so it was alright to sleep back then. We stayed with this family Matsumura, Matsumoto family. And then we were able to buy---get a house we bought a house in Glendale. So my parents had a small house and we---on Glendale Avenue that we were able to stay and then when I went into service, volunteered for the Army, they---how is it that you want to join the This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 6 of 34 �army? Well, I thought, this is we gonna have to do. My brother was already in the army he was draft--first draftee and I thought, well, (26:00) the 4-4-2 is being formed and I says, "I could join the Army now and I can join the Air Force [Army Air Corps] and go in the Air Force." I wanted to fly. 'Cause when I was a kid in California read some papers and Saturday Evening Post and I get a dollar and I go out to this field and this World War I plane out there then he would, for a dollar, he would take us around the cities. So I thought that was fun. That's why I wanted to fly. So when I joined up I says, okay, I want to join the air force. I finally joined the Air Force but ended up in the infantry. They says, "They need you in the infantry and we don't need you in the Air Force, you're too small," you know. So that's how I became in the infantry. INTERVIEWER: Why don't we stop right here and switch tapes because I wanted to . . . BEGINNING OF TAPE TWO INTERVIEWER: Okay. Mr. Sakato, when you were delivering groceries to the camps and working for the grocery store and by this point in time the 100th had been formed in Hawaii and they had been shipped over to the European front to participate in the European campaign, what were you thinking when you heard about this? SAKATO: Well, I heard that the 100th Battalion was---went to Camp McCoy and then they went overseas to Salerno, Sicily and I says, hey, how come they're over there that---doing such a great job---reports were coming back that how they were in battle and that the---why is it that we can't join the service too? And then President Roosevelt declared that we could join the forces---armed forces so therefore I thought 'cause---but 4-4-2 started and they were in Camp Shelby and so I thought, "Well, I think I should volunteer too." So that's when I, well, maybe I could join in the Air Force, get in there. So I signed up for the Air Force and I got on the train and ended up at Camp Blanding and I says, "Where's the airplanes?" This is not an air force you are now in the infantry, you're a foot soldier. Well, what will be will be I guess I'll have to just do without it besides the Air Force you're too small for the Air Force. So I had to join the basic training in Camp Blanding. (02:00) And when I went to Camp Blanding we took our 8 weeks of basic training. We had a---one fella that was smaller than me and he was less than five feet two. I thought, well, when we had our 25-mile hike that told him to drop out, and then we would all drop out, us short fellas. 'Cause we had to double time every time we would march, the taller fellas would march regular steps. Us short fellas in the back would have to catch up so we'd have to double time, we'd have to run to catch up with them. So we thought, "Why don't you drop out and we'll all drop out together." John Kasano he just kept on going. We went the whole 25 miles, full field pack, Krat(ions)---C- rations and all. And when we got back to camp we had blisters all over our foot. 'Cause Camp Blanding has a swampy---they had beaches type of a sand and the lakes around there. And they had wild pigs and snakes, pretty little coral snakes. But they're the worst. They're the poisonous snakes you could find. Plus water moccasin snakes that are poisonous. And we had to bivouac in those areas that were nothing but wild pigs and snakes and the chiggers. They had bugs that crawls into your cuffs and bite, we were itching all day long. And sweat, (4:00) humidity was so high that your perspiration--then it would rain and you're still wet. And go to sleep at night and it was so hot and humid that you'd sweat. We were wet all the time. I couldn't believe that swampy area of Camp Blanding, the humidity was being so high. And when it rains, it rains. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 7 of 34 �INTERVIEWER: How much did one of those field packs weigh that you had to carry? SAKATO: Oh, well we had C-rations---three cans of---we had beans, we had the kind of a soup, and they had Spam or you had stuff like that. Then they had little crackers. Those crackers are like when the---if you eat them and swallow some water, they would expand in your stomach and you'll feel full. So then the Krations---C-rations itself was pretty heavy. You got three cans of those and raincoats and gas masks we were supposed to carry, and shovels and . . . Oh, it must weigh 40, 50 pounds. INTERVIEWER: So was that the most difficult experience in basic training, the hiking with those packs on your backs? SAKATO: Hiking with full field pack. Then you have a blanket on top of that you wrap---you strap through over the top part. And that was, you know . . . INTERVIEWER: Was there anything enjoyable about basic training? SAKATO: Sleeping if we could. We would go out---(6:00) there was a fellow named George Futomaki he lived in Pueblo, he was in the same company, he was the studious one. And every time we go out on training he would write down everything the sergeants was talking about. Me and a couple of other guys was sleeping back then. And we'd to ask him, "What was the lecture about today?" We were bad. How I became soldier, I don't know. INTERVIEWER: So in your basic training you had Japanese/Americans from the mainland and you had Japanese from Hawaii. What was that like? SAKATO: Well, most of us was all mainlanders, you know, in our first basic training. So when we was in Camp Blanding it was all first draftees that was from the mainland and they were in service and you didn't have too many Hawaiians then. And so after our basic training was over, we went to Camp Shelby. We did go to Camp Shelby. And then we joined the Hawaiian boys there. There were Hawaii boys knew at the time that boys from camps had signed "no-nos," didn't want to go to war. So when we ended up in Camp Shelby we had to fight the Hawaiian boys. And they would call us kotonks; we were emptyheaded things. And they pound your head up here is kotonk, kotonk. That's what the Hawaiians used to call us, kotonks. But they---I had a---when we had in Redlands we had Redlands University. Hawaiian boys used to come over to the school and they would stop at our store and we'd (8:00) talk Hawaiian. And we---I learned to speak pidgin English with those Hawaiians. So when I went to Camp Shelby, they thought I was kanaka, they thought I was a Hawaiian. "What island you from?" "I'm not Hawaiian, I'm a kotonk." They didn't believe me. I didn't get into any scraps with them 'cause they liked me, you know, I got along with them. We had a boy from Ogden, Utah. He was six, close to six feet, and weighed, oh, 280 pounds. He was throwing the Hawaiians out of the hutment. But after we fought them, we came the best of friends, became the best of buddies. In fact, we had a skirmish with a Aleutian Islands soldiers coming from the Aleutian Islands fought in the Alaska area. They came back to camp and they This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 8 of 34 �went on R&R and the boys would be---they'd start calling us Japs and next thing you know we had a fight on our hands. So we were fighting them till the commander put a stop to that he put us all together and he says, "He's a U.S. citizen, he's a soldier, he may be---look like the enemy but he's a U.S. soldier. You are a soldier, U.S. soldier, you're both from the same Army and I don't want any of this fighting to be going along here anymore." So they put a stop to that and after that we didn't have any troubles. But Army life is, I don't know. INTERVIEWER: Overall, what was your experience like at Camp Shelby? SAKATO: Well, we had to do basic training over again with the basics. We had one fella that missed the bayonet practice one day. And he was (10:00) sick and then he came back and he had to take basic training bayonet practice with the haole bunch, haole boys, hakujins. And then he was---get his bayonet and rifle and he stick the rifle barrel all through the dummy and he come back out he---the butt end of the rifle he knocked the head of the dummy off, you know. Those haole boys went, "God, I hope we don't go to the Pacific we have to meet somebody like that." [Laughter.] They were scared---the dickens. INTERVIEWER: Did your kendo training help you out in bayonet practice? SAKATO: Little bit on that one. [Laughter.] Good thing I didn't have to use that. Only one time when we had combat like that. INTERVIEWER: Did you have a chance to go into town when you were in Mississippi at Camp Shelby or at Fort---at Camp Blanding? SAKATO: We didn't have time to go to the camp. Oh, we got to Camp Shelby---after we left there, Camp Shelby, we went to Camp Kilmer in New Jersey. So we was able to go to---our pass---so Tanamachi, John Kondo, Tanaka, Sho Tabata and about three of us or four of us went to New York City. And so we stayed---so I says, "Well we gotta go to the Waldorf Astoria and stay at the Waldorf Astoria." That time it cost us 40 bucks to stay a night, and just about half our pay, you know, each one of us. And then we stayed in there for 4 or 5 hours then we walked the town looking over New York City and stargazing at high buildings. Then we had to go back to camp before they---8 hours or 9 hours we were there New York City, cost us $40 that night, for that day (12:00) just to say we stayed at the Waldorf Astoria. It cost us a pretty penny. But we enjoyed the trip and we came back to camp. INTERVIEWER: How did the New Yorkers react to seeing Japanese soldiers in American uniforms? SAKATO: They---well they got---kinda stared at us followed us as we went by but they didn't say much because by then the 100th was doing so well in Italy and Sicily that they kinda cooled down the reaction was---we didn't have the---have to face them as far as being---but we did have the glares or staring. You could feel the sense of that they were wondering what we were doing there. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 9 of 34 �INTERVIEWER: What were you thinking at the time? SAKATO: I thought, well, that's part of the discrimination that they're showing and I have to look even---I have a little discrimination but I don't show it. I know I wouldn't want somebody if I was married and I had children to have inter-marriages between that---and I---at the time I---those days we didn't think about inter-marriages to go. And I did have discrimination, I guess if I had a daughter that was gonna---she wanted to marry somebody else rather than our Japanese, I might be sticking my foot down but everybody has a little bit of discrimination in them. No matter where---what nations there is, there always will be discrimination. But at least try not to show it, you know. Hold it down and respect the people that are living there. INTERVIEWER: So you handled that, you took it in stride. SAKATO: Oh yeah. INTERVIEWER: So you went back to camp at New Jersey and what happened for you there? SAKATO: While we were in Camp there, we had to marching lessons and go out and shoot the rifles again. We were there for about a week, I guess. Then we had to transfer to Newport News, Virginia where we had to board ships. When we was in the basic training, you know, you had eight weeks of learning how to shoot a rifle, learn how to shoot a cannon, learn how to shoot a pistol, learn how to shoot a machine gun. And we tried to shoot a machine gun with a little airplane flying around. They had a little of these gas engine, small planes with radio controls so they would fly over and we'd try to shoot that. Within the whole company I think we only had one bullet hit one plane. Nobody could hit that plane down. I don't know how we became soldiers. Now we shoot a pistol and you're trying to shoot the pistol like that "bang", I missed it. He would fire up the rifle range and I was supposed to shoot at a target 200 yards, 100 yards away. At that time they had a spotter with a little round disk on a piece of board and he would indicate where you had hit the target. (16:00) When I fired, I didn't see nothin' he went up like this and he moved the circle back and forth indicating that I missed the target. How I---I couldn't shoot that rifle. I couldn't---I was not an expert rifleman. I hit it a couple of times but, how I got that, I don't know. Those eight weeks I needed a little more basic training on that shooting the rifle. INTERVIEWER: When they moved you to Virginia and you knew that you'd be boarding the ships to go overseas, did you have any idea what you'd be participating in or did they tell you? SAKATO: Noooooo. They says, "Well, you have a week before the ship comes," so we were there for another week or two waiting for the ships to come in. And then when we had to board the ships we had to put all our packs on then we had---besides that we had a duffel bag---our extra clothes and our extra shoes and stuff were in there. We had to carry that plus our rifle and they had a plank---gangplank that you go This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 10 of 34 �up---you had to climb that up thing. I don't know how I got on top of---got onto that boat. But I finally got on top of the boat then they put us down. So we were in the bottom third deck down, I guess, and they had little hammocks like this that you---one, two, three, four of 'em like this. So I was on the third one but then how I got up onto those I (18:00) had to climb up---had a little ladder you climb up on and then you scoot into your hammock. Getting into that was fine but when the boat started to move---I'm sitting there rockin' with the boat and I'm thought, "Oh my God." It was calmer when we left that day and about the third day out it started getting a little more rockier. I went down to eat and I looked at the food and I couldn't eat. I think I was sick, I did not eat. I had to go back up to the deck and see if I could throw up. Oh. For two days, I guess, I didn't eat. And finally, I was able to eat and then as long as I stayed on top of the deck in cool and let the breeze---I was fine. If I had to stay down in the hole, I didn't like that. So those were the time I's catnap on top of the deck. Then we was out couple few days and pretty soon all the different ships would start joining us. So we'd look up ooooh, night we'd look up we'd see the North Star. Well, oh, we're going south, southeast. Next day night, oh, no, we're going northeast. So this zig-zagging back and forth, it took us 28 days to get to Oran. All the different convoys were coming in. In the meantime, we were on the deck. We were---(20:00) we had a 50-cent piece, we'd get a spoon and we'd tap, tap, tap, tapped against the bulk, the ship bulkhead and we'd flatten that top of that quarter, half a dollar down to our ring size then we'd drill a whole and we'd have a silver ring that we would wear. So we kept tapping that thing---everybody on board ship was doing this, you know, to kill---pass time. We were making rings for ourselves. But then we start hearing "boom" somethin' went off. Another one went off. Pretty soon these destroyers, boats, small boats was chasing---and then they start blowin' the whistles everybody to get down below. So we had to get down below and submarine that we lost three ships to submarines had torpedoed the . . . So then when we heard those things then I said, "Oh my god." Who's next? What ship's gonna be next? Maybe we're next. Maybe our tapping those damn rings they heard the sound and then submarines was just following us and ship goes down. And that kinda scared us and the other nights we'd be down below pretty soon we hear this "bang, bang, bang, bang, bang" guns were shooting, ships were shooting they were target practicing to shoot the---they had a plane come down there they was gonna shoot it. And so they---that made us more nervous. "Oh my god, here we go." Well, it took us 28 days to get to Oran and then they finally got on board ship again then we went to Naples, Italy. INTERVIEWER: (22:00) While you were coming over or going over to North Africa, your brother, where was he at this time? SAKATO: He was on another transport. He was going over same time we was. INTERVIEWER: And---I . . . SAKATO: He took basic training at another camp. And then he joined us in Shelby then he's---we're all on two different ships---four different ships and we got overseas to join our company 4-4-2 or 100th. He was assigned to the 100th Battalion and I went to 2nd Battalion, E Company. INTERVIEWER: What did your parents think or what did they say to you, they had one son who's already drafted and then you went ahead and volunteered. How were they feeling about this? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 11 of 34 �SAKATO: Well, first they didn't like the idea but, I guess, if you must, you must. But like it says, like all Japanese don't bring shame to the family or even to the Japanese community. Whatever you do, do your best then come home. INTERVIEWER: So what was going through your mind, you're on this ship going over to---you're not really quite sure what to expect and you know that your brother is on another ship. How were you feeling, what were you thinking? SAKATO: Well, we just---thinking back then you're wondering, well, what if we get torpedoed in the bow, we're gonna drown on board this ship. And you're praying that you---we make it safe across. And every time you hear an explosion you go "Oh my." Somebody's---(24:00) one of us---ships is gonna get hurt---hit by the submarines. And you was kinda nervous. You wondered if we're gonna get out of this alive or not. INTERVIEWER: At that point, I know that you said that every time you passed something in your training you were sort of---surprised yourself but did you feel like "Okay, I think I'm prepared to do what I have to do now." SAKATO: Well, when we finally joined the company I says, "Well, I guess this is it, this is where we're going." And we heard all the different stories of---coming back from front lines---how the 100th was sent in there like a sitting duck on Cassino they're trying to climb that hill and the abbey and then the Germans are up there just shootin' down on them. It was just like shootin' fish in a barrel. And so many of them gettin' wounded and thought, "Oh my." It kinda makes you sit back and wonder if we're gonna come out of all this alive. But if we have to we'll do what we can to protect ourselves and to do what we can to take the hill if we have to take the hill and we'll do it. This is what we were sent here for. So when we got Italy, I joined the Company F when they came back from Rome the Arno River area. So they did most of their fighting already. And here I'm a 90-day wonder coming into this---only eight weeks of---after ten weeks of training and I joined the Company (26:00) and they were gonna go into battle and I don't know nothin' about fightin', shoot. I can shoot a rifle but not very good. And joined the company was something. They just told us to stay calm and if anything should come in you got to learn what they call incoming mail they says which is artillery shells coming in and what artillery shells are going out and the sounds of the different machine guns. Ours just go pump, pup, pup, pump, and their goes tuddddut, more bullets coming out of theirs than what's going out of ours. And you could tell the difference between the firing power that our rifles compared to their burp guns what they call it and machine guns and artillery shells it's---we had to learn this. But then we didn't learn this until we got to our first day in battle in France. INTERVIEWER: I'm going to stop you right here, Mr. Sakato, so we can . . . BEGINNING OF TAPE THREE INTERVIEWER: Okay. Mr. Sakato, when you first landed at Oman . . . This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 12 of 34 �SAKATO: Oran. Oran, Africa INTERVIEWER: Oh, I'm sorry. I know it's Oran, how did I get Oman? I even wrote Oran. I'm sorry, oh, my God, we'll have to start all over again. When you first landed at Oran in North Africa, what were you thinking? SAKATO: Well, I says we finally made it to port someplace and the---submarines wouldn't be around this area so we felt pretty safe and we couldn't get off the board ship back then so we still on board ship. And we was more or less there for refueling or something 'cause we couldn't get off the ships. And that we were---and stayed there overnight or two---a day---and then we had to move again 'cause then we were back on in the Mediterranean going to Naples. So on our way to Naples---the Mediterranean you'd think should be calm and being it's away from the main ocean---I always thought it would be calm but till we got out the middle of the Mediterranean, it starts rockin' just as bad as it's done in the deep ocean of the Atlantic. I said, "Oh, my God." So we was---finally we got to Naples---then we had to get off of these---Naples and---these rope ladders they have that ladders that tied in knots together and made into like a ladder. And you'd have to step on each one of those little ropes as you went down, hang on one end and then ease yourself down (2:00) and we went into little barges. I---the Navy had a name for these barges but when you get down onto those, then they take you to the port. So we'd go 'round and around this boat for awhile and then they would land, and that was kinda rough. Like being in a small fishing boat. But we finally made it to land and we got to Naples and at least we'd be able to get off on hard---the decks---the port. So we walked into the town of Naples, marched in. And we were sittin' near a school, college in Naples and we had to stay there and then the rest of the company joined us and we were assigned to various, different companies. And each other group when they separated part of us and at least I was able to---there's a George Kanatani, he was a our hometown lived in Redlands and he was able to join us in the same company as I was. He was one of the first draftees too, see. He had to take his basic training over and he was able to join us. And we (inaudible) went out to staging area near---Mussolini had a ranch out there, so we went to his farm, took over the place, and we can do (4:00) marches and shooting rifles again to---took our basics training over again. And then from out there we had to go back to port and get on board ship to go to Marseilles, France. As we boarded the ships from there, we had to go through Corsica Strait and the storms started to come in, I guess, 'cause the waves were gettin' higher and higher. I had to go out on guard duty and I'm on top of the deck and here comes the waves coming over the bow of the ship and I thought I was gonna---throw me into the ocean. And I was able to hang onto the post and the guy, the sergeant says, "Come on down, get off of there." You were in deep the storm here. So I was able to get down, otherwise I would have been washed overboard. The waves were coming over the bow of the ship and the then boat was going up and down like this. I was getting seasick all over again. Eh, God, I don't know how many times I got seasick. But then we finally made it to Marseilles and I thought that was safe. Okay, so we have to get off these rope ladders again. So we're climbing these rope ladders in these barges and this one corpsman, Navy corpsman, just gives me a paper bag he says, "You might need this." What's a paper bag gotta do with this? "Okay," I said. Then we go 'round and around just we must've been around just going around this ship for an hour till everybody got off the boat onto these little . . . Then we headed for shore. By the time I got to shore, I had to use that paper bag. [Laughter.] We got---finally got to shore (6:00) and we thought we was going to see the Germans, there was no Germans. So we was able to march and we---outside of Marseilles, we bivouacked and we put up our tents and started to rain. Good golly, when it rains it rains. And then we had our pup tents up, two-man pup tents, and then we This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 13 of 34 �was trying to sleep in there and then we'd get up and walk around awhile and then come back. And some of the boys said, "Well, let's go into Marseilles." It was off limits. We went anyway. And got caught. The sergeant was a sergeant, he became a corporal. Since I was a private, I didn't know, I was still a private. But we made it all right and back 'cause a Colonel Hanley caught us. If it was some other outfit there, I guess then we wouldn't have been caught but, Hanley being our commanding officer, we were Japanese, he knew we belonged to his Company. "Back!" So we finally made it back and he got busted to a corporal and I was---"Don't do that again." INTERVIEWER: So in your brief, little experience in Marseilles, what did you think when you saw the city, what was it like? SAKATO: I thought, well, it was just a lot of buildings and things but, old buildings (8:00) and that the area that we went into and we didn't get to see it, the rest of it, we were just on the outskirts of it. We must be near the pier. But then we was able to get back and I didn't think nothing of that town. But all these cities in Europe were old, old buildings, real old. And I don't know how they stood up that long and some of 'em were bombed or had---few were bombed 'cause the invasion went through there. And at least we didn't have to face the invasion that time. Then we was ordered to get on trains. Gettin' on these little trains is---used to be cattle cars. They used to ship horses and cattle back and forth. We---they just washed them out a little bit, I guess, and that was it. But the smell was still there. We got on board on those and they would go three miles north and then pretty soon they would back up two miles, and they'd go three miles again and we go somewhere, then they switch back and forth. "When are we gonna get there?" I says. I don't know how long it took, maybe three, four, five hours, eight hours. Then they finally got off of those and got on trucks. So when we got on trucks we got to the town of Epinal, and then Epinal they trucked us to the outskirts where there's a starting of the hills, the mountains. It had rained and rained for the last weeks and everything was muddy and (10:00) we had to march along this road and it was just---we'd sink in maybe an inch and a half, two inches, nothing but mud, tromp through the mud, then we had to climb the hill. Climbing the hill, I could never climb the hills. So I had to give Kanatani my pack and my---I have to climb up---when I got to the top of the hill, all I had was a rifle, everybody else was carrying my stuff. 'Til this day I don't know how I---I still don't know how I got . . . Anyway, we got up to the top of the hills and we was ready for our first day of attack. So 1st platoon was ahead of us, 200 yards ahead. And this is starting our day---first day in battle. So we were 3rd Platoon, we were in the back resting, waiting. So I'm talking to Yohei Sagami from Fife, Washington, he was saying, "Well, what will we do when we get out?" Well, he says he'll probably have to go back to the apple, apple orchards. Well I'll probably go back and start a grocery store. Then the artillery shells comes. You could hear the machine guns going off ahead 200 yards, and we felt safer back here. So we're sittin' by this tree and talkin', and then there's a Lieutenant Schmidt, we had a 90-day wonder lieutenant, he became our first lieutenant, lieutenant for our Company. He was pacing back and forth and his name is Schmidt. Okay, so I (12:00) got up and I says, well, he was so nervous I wanted to break the . . . I stuck my two fingers underneath my nose and I, "Zig heil in case we lose!" Everybody else laughed but he didn't laugh. He was mad he chewed me out, "Why you . . ." And the artillery shells start coming in. When you hear those you hear this [imitates artillery shell sound], that's coming in. When it goes out you hear [imitates artillery shell sound]. You know, the backlash of the artillery shells when it goes it's going out. So you could tell it's going out our guns are going that way. But when it's coming in it has a [imitates artillery shell sound]. It's just a sharp whistle for a while then "bang" everything goes off. So all the shells were coming in and This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 14 of 34 �we was sittin', me and Yohei's sittin' there by the tree, I stood up and then looked around and "bam." I picked myself up about fifteen feet away and I just ached all over. I was so black and blue, my arms were black and blue and I had a scratch here, bleeding and , oh, that's nothing. Everything else was alright. Then I looked down and here's Yohei on the ground turned him over and the blood was coming out of his veins, jugular vein like a pencil, stream of pencil like this. I couldn't stop it without choking him. So I called for medics and everything, I gave him plasma, he died on the way down. That was my first experience of seeing one of our own get hurt. That put a shock (14:00) in me for a while. But then I had to do a little ducking and the artillery shells were coming in and I started digging a hole, couldn't dig a hole. Then they stop. So then then start marching on ahead. So we saw on the top of this ridge over--town of Bruyeres sits down here, we were back here and we're taking this hill. 100th Battalion was on this other ridge and then I Company was down below, they were to go into town of Bruyeres. We're up here looking down there, we do not want to cross, somebody got hit, an explosion went off and guy lost his leg, land mines. They had a minefield. So we all had to lay on our stomach and get our bayonets out and probing the ground inch by inch. Sticking our bayonets into the ground to see if you could find something hard. And then if you find something hard, that'd be the mine, land mine. But if you hit the trigger, it'd blow up in your face. Three guys got hurt. Fortunately, I didn't find anything in my area, so I was able to probe. But then again you go [prolonged exhale] I'm still alive. INTERVIEWER: That had to have been very difficult for you to be talking with a buddy and . . . SAKATO: That was the worst part, to looking for a land mine, you're perspiring you're sweatin', you don't want to hit a land mine and if it goes off. So we was able to clear that area (16:00) and we went ahead then we finally took the hill. Hardly two days went by and then here come a tank---a machine gun pinned us down so we had a Sherman tank on top of the ridge with us---good, that felt, felt a little better and he's not---machine guns was up ahead---I'm in front of the barrel of the tank and I'm talking with this---either the tank---"See those bunch of rocks on top over to the right-hand side, there's a machine gun sittin' over there, I want you to blast it." No sooner than I said that, he lets go of this artillery shell. Wow! I'm in front of the barrel, my ears went like this [holding his hands to his ears], I couldn't hear for quite awhile. "God," I said, "would you wait until I get behind it!" He let it go---oh God, another type of concussions that the heads are spinning around and everything. In the meantime, we're looking around for the lieutenant, Lieutenant Schmidt, he's missing. And he went back, he was so nervous and everything, he went back to headquarters. We radioed in there, "We're missing a lieutenant, can't find him," and so the captain says, "That's alright, he's back here with us." So the platoon offers---later he became squad leader of a whole platoon, our squad leader became---so he became the head of the platoon. So we marched and we take the hill. I Company finally flushed the Germans out of the town and we're (18:00) on top of this hill looking at---over this city, this Bruyeres, and then you see a tank going, German tank going around out---"Where you guys leaving?" Pretty soon he's---"Oh no, he's facing us, that gun is facing . . ." You see smoke come out of the barrel---[imitates artillery shell sound], "He's shootin' at us!" We had to run on the other side of the hill and trying to dig in and the artillery shells start coming in. When they hit the tree, the trees, the area burst rains down, straight down on us, you have no protection against the thing when it hits the tree. If it hits behind you, in between you then it goes away from you, you won't get hurt. I had that happen later on, I'll tell you. Anyway, the tree burst hit then there was three, four guys got hit and we had to get on the other side and we tried to dig in this hole. I'm only in there less than a week or two, about a week of actual fighting. I tried to dig this hole and I could only dig a hole about that much, so I tried to climb into my helmet far as I could. And then I stuck my feet up hope I get hit then I could go home. That didn't happen either. But I was saying, This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 15 of 34 �"Oh my God, all these tree bursts going off." Then it became quiet and I says, "Where's my Company," I'm looking around, "where's E Company?" I'm diggin' in with F Company, E Company is on the other side. I didn't know where I was at, I was just diggin' to be diggin'. So I was diggin' with boys from F Company, and then the Germans started to attack, they started coming up the hill. (20:00) They were countering attacking so they was trying to make their---trying to take the hill back. And so we was fighting and shooting back down again and then chased them off the hill and we started diggin' a hole down, down below there near the road. Here comes a tank coming [imitates tank sound] hear the tracks, oh, my God, here comes a tank we try to hide behind a tree. He saw I was the one on the hill and then about 25 feet on the other side when another fella were diggin' a hole. He fired one round and it went in between us, so all the artillery went that way and so we didn't get hit. If it hit in front of us, we would've been gone. And, but then he turned around cause we sent a bazooka man down tried to hit him and he took off and then we went back. That's first time I faced a Tiger tank. It scared me, yes, the living daylights out of me. I'm lucky I'm standing here today again. I must have nine lives. INTERVIEWER: Can you describe for us . . . SAKATO: And then . . . INTERVIEWER: I'm sorry---what the Vosges forest and the mountains were like because you talked about the tree bursts and if you could describe the Vosges for us. SAKATO: The trees in the mountains of the Vosges so dense, they're thickly and you have growth of about two, three feet high. And you can't see at night you put your hand out here I couldn't see my hands, palm of my hands unless I looked up, you know, the skies then you see your hands. At night we have to go to do our business, you take out a piece (22:00) tp's and we lay 'em down, they're white so you could see it. Then we do our business then we have to pick, pick it up and bring 'em come back to our hole, so dark. Nights we'd be sittin' there at night, we'd dig a hole and you hear something snap, twig break over here then something else back there. You don't know what's out there. Then we give a command of "Halt!" and it's still moving so we throw out a grenade and the next morning we wake up, we killed a poor cow. But other nights we did find Germans guns and they dropped them and they ran. But at night you can't see what's out there so you just had to holler at each other, "Who, is that you?" or and then they would holler back, "Yeah, don't shoot," if we had to go out to do . . . So then we come back and we---at nights . . . Then it's cold and we had to---we dig a hole deep as far as we could dig, and we go down and chop the little trees branch bark so we'd lay them across the top of the---trees. And then we put boughs on top of that, then we put some dirt on top of that, pile dirt on. So we made like a cave underneath that. So when the tree burst hits, it would hit that instead of us sittin' in the hole. We're in the hole one night and this one guy from Hawaii, he had to have a cigarette bad, (24:00) he ran out of cigarettes. He needed a cigarette so he crawled out of his hole and went to the next hole and to get a cigarette, tree burst artillery hit the tree and the top of that tree came right straight down, landed in his hole. It would've been his tombstone if he hadn't have crawled out of that bed. Oy, I thought. I guess when you had to have a cigarette that means you had to have a cigarette. That saved his life. Things like that has happened and you wonder, "Oh my God, what are we doing in this war?" INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 16 of 34 �And so with nights like that you can't sleep, you're constantly tired, cold . . . SAKATO: So two or three weeks went by already and we went to another hill and I got up and we took this one hill, we were separated 25-feet apart, 50-feet apart, cause only very---two squads of us and we had taken a hill. If I stood up and he stood up, I could see him. If I sat down and he sat down, I couldn't see him. The Germans were shootin' over us and I'm trying to shoot back, pretty soon the sergeant was on top of the hill he goes, "Let's go back." "Okay," while in the meantime I'm trying to shoot that guy that's shootin' at me. But when I finally got on top of the hill---I couldn't climb that hill, you know. I got top of that hill, they're all gone. They left me on top of that hill, they thought I got shot down there. Now what do I do, it's dark, gettin' dark, I didn't know which way was our lines. So I saw a bunch of bushes over there in one area, so I crawled into that hole and I laid (26:00) down and put some bushes on top of me, covered me up. Then I hear different footsteps coming by. Two hours have gone by, you know, it was quiet, laying---here comes---somebody's coming up the hill. So I look up, I see a silhouette of the German helmet. I didn't breathe or exhale or inhale or---I just stayed calm till that patrol left---those were Germans. Oh, my God, which way did they come up? I didn't know. So I laid there again, now four hours went by, another patrol come by. I looked at their helmet I said, "That's our helmet." "Hey, what company is this?" Ho, the guy he [imitates action of soldier with a startled look on his face]---he didn't know if he was going to shoot me or not. I scared him out of his wits. He was F Company. Finally, I got back to our lines and I got back to the Company. So sergeant tells the captain, "You can cross Sakato off the missing in action list." God almighty, they had me missing in action already. INTERVIEWER: I'm going to stop you right here and we're going to change tapes. SAKATO: 'Cause I got another one. INTERVIEWER: You should . . . BEGINNING OF TAPE FOUR INTERVIEWER: Okay. Mr. Sakato, so now you have rejoined your correct Company E and you're off the MIA list. SAKATO: Yes, we finally get back and we had to go to another hill and this time we had---meet a colonel from the 36th Division who was ours. We're supposed to meet him on the road. Oh no, we had to take a hill, after we took this hill, it was a small hill, so we got back and we're sittin' in this barnyard of the French farm and we---it was writing up Ben Masuoka is a Mike Masuoka's brother, he was a college graduate, so he was writing up a citation for us for taking this one hill and we had orders to go up to meet the colonel from the 36th Division. So he had this report in his pocket---all this---what we did and how many of us took the hill, what company we were, how we were able to take the hill. And so, this was in his pocket and we had to go on this patrol. So when we get up to the hill and then we see this one colonel in his jeep he says, "I want you to follow this ridge and make contact" with his company up ahead. Okay, so we headed out, we had a radioman with us from and another couple from F Company was with us so we finally was going through this ridge and we could hear somebody chopping wood down below. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 17 of 34 �And I said, "Well, there's---they could (2:00) cut---chopping the woods down to make covers for their foxholes." Didn't think nothing of it, somebody's doing it on the other side of this ridge, doing the same thing. So this end where we were is still ours where we, U.S., we had a hold of it. Forward was the Germans. So we used to make contact where the Germans were. So we go about 300 yards and we see some soldiers in the foxholes, U.S. soldiers, American 36th Division. And then---this is---"Well, go forward, see where the Germans are." Why are we here to go see where the Germans are, why can't they go see where the Germans are? So we go another 200 yards and we get pinned down with machine gun fires. So I'm laying down and I run to the one side and hid behind a bush. When I took basic I would always run behind a bush or rock or something. Ben Masuoka and a guy named Friday was on the other side, they were still out in the open. George Futomata from Pueblo that guy who was writing all this information, he was out in the open on the left side. They didn't get behind a bush or anything. They stuck their head up, "pow," they got shot right in the forehead. A sniper had caught 'em, all three, two on this side and one on this side. I was next, they were lookin' for me, but I had the bush in front of me to protect me. So I had to crawl back backwards and I went back and I asked for the people that were in the foxhole to come up and help us. They wouldn't come out of their holes. (4:00) So we had the radioman---the platoon sergeant let the radio man call the Company. He said to come home, come back. We had to leave those three guys up there. We came back and then we next day we took the hill. We found two bodies but we couldn't find Masuoka's body. He had all the information in his pocket. How we had taken this one hill, we're E Company, 4-4-2, all the information was in his pocket. INTERVIEWER: Can I hold you for just one second? SAKATO: So when we went to look for him we couldn't find him and he's---being that he had all the information regarding where we were, what company we're in, and this we figured, well, he might be still alive, we didn't know. But what I saw [getting hit] through the temple, each one of them, that sniper had a---he had a telescopic lens where he could pick you off, he could shoot the button off of your coat. He could do that. And that's how he got all these three guys. And again I survived. I was able to come back. Oh boy. To live through these various battles that I've gone through I don't know how I was able to make it. So we came back and we able to regroup and they took the hill but they couldn't find his body. We had to go to another hill. (6:00) We hadn't taken a shower for three weeks. We hadn't had a hot meal for three weeks. Sometimes I was on this foxhole and I slept. Was so tired, I fell asleep in the dark in the night. Next morning when I got up, the other guys says they had a machine gun here and another one had a something else. "Where'd you guys get that?" "Where were you?" I slept through the whole thing. I didn't know that they threw out grenades and machine guns were going off, shot the Germans. I was so tired I just fell asleep. I never lived that down. Anyway, the next time, so we had to go on this one ridge and the road, we was following this one road, and they it made a right turn to this other ridge. So when I got there we got pinned down. I saw the machine guns sittin' over there somewhere, some smoke over on the right side. And they had us pinned down on this other side too. So then I went down below the slope across the road and went down the ditch in between the little small valley between the two hills and I climbed back up and I got on the road. I was to the right of what I thought was the machine gun and I got up to the---an area that I saw a log tree, I was laying down on the ground, oh, that must've been their foxhole. Then I saw two Germans This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 18 of 34 �running (8:00) up the hill. So I fire---in the meantime I got a Thompson submachine gun that I had taken from a tank that has blown up. So I crawl in there and got the Thompson submachine gun, now I had more firepower. I could shoot more bullets than---with a rifle I couldn't shoot. I'm not---I could hold it to the right and then at an angle the bullets would go this way. But if we had the bullets this way then the bullets would go straight up. So a Thompson submachine gun if it's fired right if he just held it this way, it would go straight up like that. So I tilt to the side then level with---parallel would go this way. So anything hidin' behind that bush or that bush there or that bush. I could hit it, I should be able to hit it. So I felt I had all kinds of firepower. So I was with this and I saw the Germans running up the hill there when this what I thought was machine gunners going up the hill. Ah, they're running away. I fired at them anyway. Lo and behold on the other side of that log came up the machine gunner and the lieutenant. He scared the daylights out of me that time. I told them drop the gun, he dropped the guns. And then told them---and that's where I took his, the lieutenant, I took his belt with machine gun--German luger. Come to think of it that belt is in that other room. I got that and I put that, strapped that on me. And I was able to take that first machine gun. Then when my sergeant he looked at me, (10:00) "Tell me, what are you doing down there?" I says, "Well, I saw 'em over there," I says, "so I gotta get 'em." "Okay." INTERVIEWER: What was the reaction that the Germans had when they saw the Japanese/American soldiers staring at them? SAKATO: They thought we were their allies. "Who are you fightin' with?" They couldn't understand why we was . . . We were Japanese? "Yes." "You're Jap(anese)? They're our allies." They couldn't get---they couldn't believe it that we . . . So we were able to capture a few soldiers and they would---German soldiers and Polish soldiers, and the Polish soldiers wanted to give up. At night they would crawl away and put a flag and wave it to be captured. We captured a young soldier that must've been 16 years old. He was out by himself he was lost I thought and when we told him to stop "Halt!" he ran down got behind a boulder. Big boulder sits outside the hill and he was down here and we're up here. I threw a grenade down here and when they went off and I went this side and sergeant went on the other side and here this kid was on his---with his hands on his head he's just shaking. Not a scratch on him. He had must have laying down when the mortar shell exploded and just went up and hit the rocks, you could see where it hit the rock like that. How he got outta that, I don't know but somebody else was looking for him, looking out for him. He's (12:00) only 16 years old, so we sent him back as a prisoner. How he got around these hills like that, I don't know how these Germans were able to---one of the lieutenants says, we captured, he says he had to point his pistol at the Germans to fire at us. When they didn't fire at us, what can you do? So that's when they started giving up. But this one hill, we finally had to go Hill 617. You have enough tape in there? Okay. Well, this is the hill. [Displays a drawing of Hill 617.] We had to go across to take this hill. We were sittin' behind in these hills, bushes, trees over here. Every time we attempted to cross over this open field, cross these railroad tracks, Germans were up here lob mortar shells down on us. Machine guns were under here shooting at us. Machine guns were down here shooting at us. We couldn't cross this open field. C Company was back there and tried to cross and they couldn't get it. So at night, E Company went got onto our trucks and we went behind, we went, I don't know how far we went, four, five miles or so. And we went across we were went through enemy lines. We were, at that time I didn't know we were in enemy lines, we got off and marched at night, we're crossing this ridge here. Then at dawn we'd start our attack 'cause they had us---the machine---the Germans were guarding this whole railroad track area. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 19 of 34 �So they had (14:00) to---they could see miles this way and miles this way, but they didn't know that we were back here. We crossed and at dawn we started our attack. I took three machine guns around right here back around. We (inaudible) and sending the prisoners back and the squad of, supposed to hold the prisoners back here, joined us 'cause they wanted some souvenirs that we were sending back empty-handed with---we had stripped them of all the souvenirs the Germans prisoners we sent back. Then we's---we had made a skirmish and was takin' the hill below here and then, before we knew it, we were surrounded. The Germans had gone around and climbed this hill again and they were starting to counterattack so then we had to---they started their counterattack we had to---I jumped in this hole left side here and others were on the other side would take control of this hill. We didn't want the Germans to come---make a---to take the hill again. And so as I jumped in this hole and they were counterattacking---machine gun holds 60 rounds, 30 rounds in a clip I fired all 60 rounds in that Thompson submachine gun. Picked up an old German rifle that the German had left and tried to shoot it. Couldn't shoot it too well so I got my German Luger that I had in my pocket that I had taken from a previous machine gun and I fired that at 'em. Then they stopped charging so it became quiet all of a sudden. They were regrouping again. So I went to fill my clips on my Thompson submachine gun and I happened to look up. Here these Germans were starting to scoot up the hill again. (16:00) And I told Tanamachi to watch out for the machine gun. And for some reason he got up and said, "Where?" And then he got shot. Why he stood up, I don't know. "Cause the day before we went on this patrol, he said he wasn't feeling good. I told him, "You'd better stay back." No, the sergeant, platoon sergeant, had given the---that Browning automatic rifle that he had to another squad and gave him a grenade launcher. He just didn't feel right, he didn't feel good. And when he didn't feel good---why he stood up I don't know. And I jumped in his hole and I says, "Why, why did you go . . .?" I picked him up and he tried to say something but all I got was gurgle. And he just went limp on me. Then when he went limp finally he died. So I picked up my tommy gun and I jumped out of the hole and I start charging this hill. How I got up here, I don't know. I never climbed the hills before in my---all this time, but I was able to charge that hill and chase the Germans. I was going to get the Germans that shot him or die trying. We took the hill. So the rest of the platoon followed me and we was able to take the---secure the hill. And we finally (18:00) got another Company to take over the hill and we had orders to go to rescue the Lost Battalion. But then to see my buddy die like that, that was sad. But then we had to take---rescue the Lost Battalion. Now why the 36th Division has how many men, battalions, and different divisions that could rescue their own men. They were behind the---two weeks, three weeks, they were---the Germans had 'em surrounded. They tried to drop supply routes, supply by parachutes to them it would land where the Germans were, they were able to pick it up. So they were running out of ammunition and so it was for us to rescue them. So I Company was to stay in the valley. They were in this one valley where the Lost Battalion was running. E Company was back here, 2nd Battalion was here on this ridge, the 100th Battalion was on this ridge. So the hills are like this, you're coming down steep hills here, but we're on the ridge here so I was able to follow the ridge. I heard the mortar shells, mortars artilleries it has a long tube like this, it's about three feet long. And then a lot of 'em has a little trigger---pin and each one of the mortars they have is like a grenade that has a shotgun shell on the bottom of it. So when you drop it down the tube, it hit this pin (20:00) and explode and goes up. You can't hear it, you don't know where it's going. Once it goes up then it's behind you and it's too late then. But it landed on this hill where the 100th was. So two rounds went on this hill and when we fire mortar shells, we always fire three and the third round's the final round. Two of 'em went off and I landed on the ground here. Twice I landed, nothing happened. So when the third one went off, I thought well, that's the final round for this hill on the 100th. So I just was half way down and "boom", again it hit me. I was ten feet a(way)---picked myself up and I, [Mr. Sakato pats himself down] "Oh damn," see if I was hit and I didn't feel anything and I ached all over. Again I was black and blue and I--This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 20 of 34 �but I---so we had to start diggin' our foxhole because artillery was really coming in. So I took my pack off and laid it on the ground and I started diggin', I couldn't raise my arm. I could feel my elbow here but I couldn't move my arm. And I said, "What's wrong?" I couldn't move my arm and I'm trying to dig and I lifted my pack and I, "Hey, there's a hole in that . . ." I had taken my overcoat 'cause it was starting to snow and I was going to throw it away, it was getting to heavy. I better keep it. It started to snow so I folded it packed it in my pack. Fortunately I did. That shrapnel had gone through the pack went through and hit my spine, ricocheted, it's in my left lung, size of my small fingernail (22:00) here. I still have it in here. It's in my lungs it tore up all this muscles in the back area where I couldn't pick my arm up. And then artillery shells start coming in, the sergeant says, "You're not hit, dig . . ." I looked again I says, "See that hole in there?" Took my jacket off, "See the hole in my jacket?" Then I start feeling the trickles of blood going down the spine of my back. "Oh yeah, I guess you better get back to aid station." Aid station is back that way. That's where all the artilleries are too. So after hitting around 'em eight or ten times or twenty times, I finally made it aid station. And I was at the aid station in Epinal. I was in the hospital in Epinal, and Christmas, Thanksgiving went by, Christmas came by. Thanksgiving I was supposed to board a plane and they got me on board a plane and the weather changed. I was out sittin' on the ropes, some ropes, since I was able to walk, so I didn't have to lay down on a stretcher. Then the weather changed so they dropped me off 'cause they couldn't tie me down and so they---my records went with the plane and I was still here. So another month I was in this hospital and the---I heard that the Battle of Bastogne in Belgium where they're making a push again, they're gonna be coming down here to---I'm gonna have to get my rifle whether I could move my arm or not I would have to shoot, fire. But they didn't (24:00) come down that far. Fortunately, I was able to get on a plane to England. I got to Birmingham, England I was in the hospital one day and I heard this mortar go [imitates mortar sound] then stop. Next thing everybody's stuck and under the beds and stuff like this. "What's the matter?" "Get out of the bed get under . . ." So I get under the bed. The mortar went off and then pretty soon I hear, in the distance I hear "whoooom." That's when I learned the buzz bomb what they call a rocket ships that the Germans had sent up and it would propel, jet propel, propulsion then it would stop and then it would land somewhere we didn't know. So that was my first experience of a buzz bomb, I'm hitting the beds when they come by. [Buzz bombs] landed in the town of Coventry which is next town from the hospital, and they were blowing up that town so bad [and] all the factories that were in them. Well, I finally got on board ship to move to go to the U.S. So I was on a hospital ship, one of the Queen Mary's-type of a ship, one week I was in New York. Then we saw the Statue of Liberty and . . . I was happy. I was home. But from then I went various different hospitals, Camp Kilmer too, another hospital near New Jersey. Then they sent me to Washington, Vancouver, Washington. (26:00) Eight months has gone by, you know, I've been in these hospitals since I've been wounded. I didn't hear nothing---news about how the war was going on. Then my kid brother sends me a letter with a news clipping of my hometown Redlands said that I had received the Distinguished Service Cross. I had no knowledge of receiving a medal. And he sends me this clipping and I read this and I says, "I didn't get no medal, what is this?" So I gave it to the chaplain there he says, well, he'll look into it. So another month went by and I'm down in a convalescent hospital near San Diego. So I---come to time to get discharged, I was going to be discharged and then the camp---Colonel Campbell he says, "I want you to stay over. We're going to have a big doings for you and the band is on furlough and all. They'll have to wait and when they get back we'll have a ceremony for you." Well, five boys, three boys were being discharged the same day as I was, they were gonna come to my house and they were gonna fly home to Hawaii. I says, "Well, I can't stay for that." So he pinned the medal on in his office and I went home. I went home and I started to work in the different stores and stuff, what I could, then was . . . INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 21 of 34 �I'm sorry, Mr. Sakato, I'm going to stop you right here so we (28:00) can change the tape and then, if you don't mind, before we go on to being discharged, I want to go back 'cause you just kind of . . . SAKATO: I jumped over some things, huh. INTERVIEWER: Well, we'll stop here because you . . . BEGINNING OF TAPE FIVE INTERVIEWER: Mr. Sakato, we didn't have a chance to ask you earlier about---first of all, Mr. Sakato, you drew that picture of Hill 617 and that was from memory. SAKATO: From memory from what I could remember of the hill. INTERVIEWER: Great memory. And this is right outside of Biffontaine. And if . . . SAKATO: This overlooks the whole valley between Strasbourg, Germany, it goes to Belmont, Biffontaine, then it goes to Bruyeres and it goes to Paris. So this is the supply route for the Germans. They could see for miles this way, miles this way. And they didn't want to give up this hill, this is one of their strategic points for them to keep control of. So no matter how we try to counterattack going across this valley, this open fields, that machine guns here the machine guns down here, mortar and artillery shells they could spy---see where we're at. And they can---they couldn't see through these trees though, but they would send in artillery shells into those trees to have a the shrapnel come down, rain down on us. So exactly where, they didn't know where we were due to the dense forest. INTERVIEWER: And what you refer to as a hill, I know, you refer to all of them as hills, but they're not little hills, they are more like mountains. They're pretty high. SAKATO: Oh, no. They're not like Loveland Pass, but they're high. They overlook this whole valley, they could see---this was a highest point. These other hills they're about the half size of this hill, but they were still high where you, in order to climb up the hill, you had to pull yourselves up 'cause (2:00) there was, oh, good 35 to 40 degrees angles and you had to pull yourself up some of those hills. You had the tree roots here and pull yourself up and---but where it's down the little valley here where it's a little sloping it's---if you had to run I guess you could run, but I didn't see no need to run when I had to. But at that time when Saburo was shot, I ran. I literally ran up this hill to shoot the Germans. How I---what---where I got the energy, I don't know. Somebody up there must be looking out for me and he gave me the extra strength to really charge that hill. INTERVIEWER: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 22 of 34 �And it was at Hill 617 outside of Biffontaine that you earned for your acts of valor and courage and uncommon courage, that you earned the Distinguished Service Cross which in this year . . . SAKATO: I didn't know till after I was discharged. INTERVIEWER: Which was subsequently upgraded to the Medal of Honor. SAKATO: That's right. INTERVIEWER: Thank you for sharing that with us. SAKATO: The company, 4-4-2, didn't have a records of me receiving this. Forty-five years they had no record--they had 51, record of 51, but there's 52 were given, they knew that, but they didn't know who had the 52nd medal. Forty-five years went by and (4:00) then the museum is going to be in San Francisco for some 4-4-2. So my brother had told them that I had received the medal, he was with the 100th Battalion, but they couldn't find the records. So they asked me for the copy of my records. I sent them a copy and they were able to go to the Pentagon and the archives in St. Louis where all the records were and they finally found it. They said that after [Senator] Akaka had signed the declaration that we should look over the medals, they found my records and at that time it was supposed to have been given the Medal of Honor at the time. So I couldn't understand how I was able to get the Medal being only in actual 90 days in combat, but I lived every one of those days. And when I got back and Akaka says to look over the medals, they checked it out that it was first proposal that I receive the Medal of Honor but they downgraded me to the Distinguished Service Cross. When the museum was built in San Francisco, they asked me what I did with my citation, I gave 'em. Then the records went to Smithsonian and my name is in the Smithsonian now. So they have records of all 52 recipients of the Distinguished Service Cross. (6:00) May of 2000, I received this phone call from the Pentagon. Pentagon looking for George Sakato, upgrade the Medal of Honor, er, DSC to Medal of Honor. I couldn't say anything. So for two---about a minute and a half went by and Mr. Lincoln---Kirklighter he says, "Are you there?" I said, "Yeah, I'm here." "I thought you had a heart attack," he says. I says, "I coulda had one." I didn't believe it. So he says, "Yes, you're going to be upgraded to the Medal of Honor." And I---oh, I didn't believe it. Then they start sending me letters, start sending me---calling me on the phone. Then it was a matter of hurry up and wait. "I'll forward you the travel orders to come to Washington, D.C. to the White House." White House? Okay, so I'm waiting, two weeks go by and still waiting, no travel orders. Then June 1st comes by, still no travel orders. Oh, call [from] Fort Shafter, army base in Honolulu. Honolulu? They're going to send me by transport plane from the Army. Oh my. Well, anyway, I'll get there one way or the other. And then---so they---I call there and they says yes, okay, we'll get you set. They got me flights for to Washington. Okay, (8:00) another week goes by. Where are my flights schedule, where's my tickets? I called them back, [they asked] "Didn't you get your travel orders?" "I didn't get 'em." So I had to call Washington again, "Where's my travel orders?" "They write 'em in Fort Shafter." I called the Fort Shafter crew in Fort Shafter, he looks into it, "Oh, okay, we'll get it." Finally I get my travel orders. Electronic, so you have to go the airport and take these papers with you and then you get---finally got to This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 23 of 34 �Washington. But it's so hurry up and wait, it's just "Yeah, you're gonna get---you're gonna be there." "Okay." But that hurry up and wait kind of (inaudible). So I told 'em---then he says I could only take so many, ten. Well, I got fifteen, twenty people, relatives alone. "Well, I'm sorry, only ten can go." So I told Mr. Kirklighter, "I don't need to go over there, just send me my medal." "Oh no, no, no, no, we'll get, we'll see, we'll get 'em." So I finally said---then I told him some of my friends in Denver wanted to go. "Well, okay, give me my---their names and addresses and phone numbers." Then it gets little more closer to time to go, "Oh, now we need their Social Security number and their birthday." Why didn't they tell me all at once? But little by little---I was gettin' discouraged, you know, and I thought, "Geez." But then I finally got there and we got everybody into the ceremony. Even fellas from Los Angeles, Santa---San---in north, Northern California, one from Seattle, (10:00) they were able to go in, go into the . . . They had it in a big tent, it holds 600 people. This tent had chandeliers hanging in it, they had plastic side, they had air conditioning in it, plants were growing inside the place. This was actually for the King of Monaco, Morocco came two weeks ahead and they had this his ceremony in there. They were gonna have ours in a little Rose Garden it says. Wouldn't hold fifty people maybe. That's why they was cutting it down to---but now that they had the big tent they would fit everybody in. We had all the Thurmond--Senator Thurmond he was there then all the different other dignitaries, all the different senators and everything, Kennedy and all the---was in this area then we were able to get all my friends in there. And the others guys from Hawaii only about so many but they were able to get in there. So we had a big, great time. Then after he pinned the Medal on me, we all went back into the White House and went separate room and each family was put in certain side of the room and the President would come by and he'd take our pic(ture)---he would take a picture with us, with the family. So that turned out real nice. So we had a great time in Washington. INTERVIEWER: Well you certainly earned it. Can I go back a little to when you first were discharged from the Army after having, just the day before, receiving your Distinguished Service Cross (12:00) in the hospital and you're now discharged and what did you do next? SAKATO: Well, after he pinned the Medal on us, me and the boys, three boys from Hawaii, we went into town of San Diego and looked over the town and we caught a bus for Phoenix, Arizona. So we got 'em home to my place and we had---they visited with us for, oh, two, three days and then they caught their flight back to Honolulu. And what am I gonna do after this? Well, then my brother, he finally got discharged, so he says, "Well, we need a little vacation." So we got in the car and we drove to Rocky Ford, Colorado meet a friend of his in Rocky Ford and we went Indianapolis, Indiana to see our family friends that lived there. And then we went to Chicago to visit our second cousins that live in Chicago. Then we went to Denver meet some of our buddies in the Army. Then he introduced me to a girl that was in town, so we stayed over for another week in town, ran out of money, had to wire home for money, and we got back and I corresponded with my present wife. And we decided---then we finally got married. INTERVIEWER: And her name is? SAKATO: Her name is Bess Sakato. Supposed to be Bessie but she likes to be called Bess. INTERVIEWER: And her maiden name? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 24 of 34 �SAKATO: Saito. And she has a brother that was in 4-4-2, he was in H Company. And he was captured right after Bruyeres so he was (14:00) a prisoner of war for a year and a half and he came back. Oh boy, life is one big going here and going there. INTERVIEWER: What were your parents and your family members' reactions when you and your brother finally got back to the States? SAKATO: Well, they was happy we got back. When they knew that we were both back in the States and that I was in the hospital in San Diego and we went on furlough, I come home and I---my mother gave me a bottle of takuan. So I took it back to the camp to the hospital in the PX. All the Hawaiian boys we went in the PX, and had beer and takuan and the hakujins---haole boys were in the other room were opening up the windows "Who died in here?" [Laughter.} Takuan smell went back to that area where they were in. Oh, we had a big, great time. Drinking beer and takuan eat. INTERVIEWER: So now you're corresponding with---you had met your wife on vacation and are corresponding back and forth with her and like obviously thinking of marrying her and what were you going to do for a living now? SAKATO: I was going to school, I'm going to be a diesel mechanic. So I started school. While I corresponded, we finally got married and I says, "I'm gonna take you to Los Angeles, take you off this farm" and she was working on the farm. And so we went---got on a bus and we went to Santa Fe, New Mexico we was on (16:00) this bus. We stopped there for a rest stop and sat on a counter to get food and get coffee, you know, they wouldn't wait on us. Mind you these were Indian girls wouldn't wait on us 'cause we were Japanese. I was gonna say somethin' to them but then the bus says we gotta leave so we didn't get anything on---at that bus stop. So we got home to Glendale and, my parents place, and we stayed there to for a week and then we went to Los Angeles where I was going to go to school. So I was gonna go diesel mechanic, become a diesel mechanic. So I was---nine months I was just at this school and at nights I would work in the post office pick up---pickin' up mail and take it to the main office and "Well, this is fine." Then the---finally graduated out of this school, I got a job in Coolidge, Arizona converting marine diesels into water pump service. The salesman couldn't sell the diesel engines because the farmers said he could stay in his kitchen and pull a switch and electric motor would start the water pump out there. So he had a hard time selling 'em. Otherwise, I'd have to get in a pickup drive out to the diesel engine, turn the switch and start the engine, go back and have breakfast. It's easier to pull a switch in the kitchen than it is to pull---push the starter button on a diesel. So one of us was gonna have to go and I told him, "Well, I'll go," 'cause my sister-in-law (18:00) was going to have a baby so we was gonna have to go to Colorado anyway. So I moved to Colorado one of those trucking companies in these train stations---train. So I was glad to get a job there. Then I applied for a job for these railroad stations trucking company, they wanted experience of ten years. I just got out of the Army I couldn't have ten years experience. They looked at me and they says they knew I was Japanese, they just didn't want to hire me. So I was working as fish-plating trucks which would be a extension of the body of the trucks and made it longer. I busted a few knuckles on the side of the bed of the trucks and my knuckles---"Why am I doing this?" I'm going back to the post office. So I applied for the post office, worked there for 32 This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 25 of 34 �years, retired from there. The knowledge I had to be a diesel mechanic went down the tube. I couldn't put a truck together if I had to. But . . . INTERVIEWER: In those years following your discharge and having fought for your country overseas and earning medals, was it difficult when you faced situations like in Santa Fe, New Mexico where you were refused service and refused positions. SAKATO: After that, it's a matter of they knew that we were---we did a wonderful job (inaudible). So they kind of respected us better. But when we go to a fine restaurant, a fancy restaurant, we go into these where they kinda---their eyes would follow us as we would go back. (20:00) Of course, they send us in the back not up front 'cause we're Japanese. But they gave us a table anyway they gave us a---but you can sense the feeling they're looking back at us "What are they doing here?" you know. We have that feeling. But actual saying something to me, they wouldn't say this. So . . . INTERVIEWER: Did that make you angry or did you just take all this . . . SAKATO: Oh, I felt it in here [points to his chest]. I was hurt a little, but you had to grin and bear it. One of these days they may come around. So we were fighting two wars. We was fighting the Germans in Italy, France, then we were fighting discrimination here in the United States. We won the war in Europe, we haven't quite won the war here in discrimination. They're still discriminating. No matter what, there will always be discrimination. You just won't be able to change it entirely, but at least if they could not show it. I have discrimination. I wouldn't want my daughter to marry somebody outside of a Japanese family. I have that discrimination in me but I don't show it. If she wants to marry somebody outside of the family, I'll just have to take it. I will respect it. If that's what she wants, that's what she can have. INTERVIEWER: So you mentioned . . . I'm sorry. SAKATO: Like I said, discrimination's still, no matter how, will always be in the world (22:00) no matter where we go. Just can't defeat it. But if each nation or each country or each denominations would hold back their views on it, to not to express them out openly, but to keep it within them, then the world would still be able to revolve around. It still be a---no fighting in wars, I don't want to see another war. INTERVIEWER: You had mentioned your daughter. When was your daughter born and what is her name? SAKATO: She was born in September 18, 1949. Her name is Leslie, Leslie Joe and she's grown up now and she's now a social worker. She works for Adams County Social. She taking care of foster children and stuff like that. I don't think I could---she even got us going to a mental retarded hospital and taking care of these kids and stuff like that. And I couldn't see it, but she liked it. That's her job, that's what she wants to do. I'm---but she's doing great. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 26 of 34 �INTERVIEWER: So she took your words to heart about education? SAKATO: Well, she didn't ditch school, I don't think. She might have, maybe. INTERVIEWER: And she's in Adams County so she still lives nearby also. SAKATO: Uh-hmm. INTERVIEWER: Over the years have you remained active and in touch with your fellow 4-4-2 buddies? SAKATO: (24:00) Uh-hmm. Every so often we get together in fact we're gonna be together October the 1st to the 5th in Las Vegas, we're gonna have another E Company reunion. We seem to get together closer--before we used to get together every three years. I wanted to the one in '53 when they had it in Hawaii but I just bought a new house and I couldn't afford to go. So in '57, they had it in Los Angeles. In the meantime, I have never written to anybody in the Company, they never knew I was alive, they never knew where I was. They thought I had died in the artillery shells in---but they haven't heard from me, 'cause I didn't know where to write. So in '57 I went to this one restaurant they were gathering, E Company was gathering at. And I walked into this room our platoon sergeant, "Eh, Sakato, you're alive, I thought you were dead!" he says. I've been going to every reunion we had since '60 with Hawaii. And these Hawaiians, you know, they walk on sandy beaches, nothing, their foot is so tough they could . . . So then I had a camera, video camera, a homemade movie camera I was taking---my platoon sergeant he was then at every reunion and he was takin' my picture and I'm watchin'---he watchin' me crossin' this beach. These other two fellas Hawaiian and another Pakala Takahashi, he walking on that beach like it's nothing. Well, I walk down the beach like till I felt my sole going through the sand (26:00) the coral underneath was sticking out and I was jumpin' up and down I couldn't get off those . . . Mine was piercing my skin 'cause I had tender foot. Their feet was like, I guess, like sandpaper. They could stand on those beaches and the coral underneath didn't bother them. You couldn't see the coral 'cause it's underneath the sand. And I'm watchin' on this beach at home. He takes a picture of me doing this, jumpin' up and down. So I couldn't walk on that beach, I had to come back. INTERVIEWER: So one of your experiences with your fellow 4-4-2 and 100th veterans has really helped you to forge a lasting brotherhood. SAKATO: Oh yes. We got along real good. So when I went back to Hawaii, my platoon sergeant he had a heart transplant they couldn't make it to the ceremony in Honolulu, so I flew to Hilo to see him, and we got to see him. And I think he's going to be able to make it to Vegas. So he's building up his strength to come to Las Vegas. INTERVIEWER: We're going to stop right here and we . . . This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 27 of 34 �BEGINNING OF TAPE SIX INTERVIEWER: Okay, Mr. Sakato, in addition to keeping very active with your 4-4-2 veterans, fellow veterans and 100th fellow veterans, are they any other activities that you've been involved in over the years? SAKATO: Well, every---when I joined the American Legion, we had a Cathay Post. Back in '46 they formed the American Legion post, they call it Cathay because they had Chinese, Portuguese, and Filipinos and various races was in the Cathay Post. So we had this going for several years and pretty soon the---we was losing money 'cause we had slot machines, where's the money going? There was a Jewish man, Greenberg, he was the commander at the time and two Chinese was the vice commander and adjutant and they took care of the books and stuff. But we couldn't see any---we didn't know where the money is. We should've made money 'cause all those slot machines should've made money. So it got to the point where they finally---we got the Jewish commander out and we voted on all Japanese as officers. So we eventually we were able to move the others back down. So then we got to the point where the Chinese finally quit. So then, well, we're all Japanese, we're gonna change our names to Nisei Post. So now we change the names to Nisei Post and we was going broke, we didn't know what (2:00) we were going to do with the club. We had a fire in the clubhouse and I says, "Well, are we gonna start over again?" So we had to take out another loan and we built the club and we had Nisei Post. And so we were in the Legion as a Legion Nisei Post with a all Japanese. So then I went three times around I was commander three times I just finished the third term as commander again. 'Cause we don't have enough fellas that'll want to participate with. They would---they're cardholding members. There are about 180 of 'em, but we get only about 20 or 30 come to meetings. But when we have a function going on, we have---everybody comes. When you got work to do, there are 20 of us, so it's gettin' pretty---it's getting down where we're all dyin' too. You know, here today and then gone tomorrow. Then we're not getting any younger. So we have this Legion club that keeps us running. Keeps us out of trouble. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever talk to your daughter or other relatives or your non-4-4-2 friends about your experiences in the war? SAKATO: Uh-uh. Till I got the Medal, and then what---she wanted to know about the Medal. How did I get it? So I had to write a brief story to get an idea of what I went through. INTERVIEWER: Has that affected (4:00) the way you and your daughter see each other now? SAKATO: Oh yeah, oh, I see her, I talk to her. INTERVIEWER: I mean in terms of . . . SAKATO: But I don't---we don't talk about the war or anything. Talk about her job and stuff like that. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 28 of 34 �INTERVIEWER: Give her new perspective on her dad that she didn't know about. SAKATO: When she went to Washington, that lit her eyes up and she's---then she listened to the different stories of different recipients receiving their Medals. She realized now what we went through. INTERVIEWER: A new understanding and a new respect. How has your life changed since you found out that your Medal of Honor---that you would be receiving the Medal of Honor? SAKATO: Oh, when I was receiving it, well, that surprised me all to the dickens and I couldn't believe it. And since I received it, I've been on the go ever since. Every week I'm here or at another place. So I just got back from Pueblo, I went to---weeks before that I was in Hawaii, weeks before that I was in Indianapolis, Indiana. Indianapolis, Indiana, that's a nice place. I was invited to their memorial of all Medal of Honors recipients only, since Civil War time to the Desert Storm time. This memorial's all glass. Each name is etched in glass and behind it is a kind of a wall. It's kind of a mossy green color and in between the wall and the glass, the light that shines up so it reflects on the glass (6:00) and the back wall makes it so you could read the names. The top names you could still read it from if you're standing on the ground and that's was real quite a memorial there. They had to redo World War II. Each one they had, each different wars they had were etched in glass. And World War II they had to redo to put our names in alphabetical order. So they redid the whole four---World War II to put our names in alphabetical order. And they would tape our experiences and then when you type our name in a computer and turn it on, a voice would come out telling the tales how we received the Medal. It's a real nice memorial there. INTERVIEWER: That must be a weird feeling for you to go and hear your voice and see your name up on the wall. SAKATO: Yeah. Good to see each different wars they had that they had stories about. So it was nice. And they gave me a sample of that glass they etched my name on it, Biffontaine, October 29, 1944, the date where I received my citation for. So they had that on there. They gave me a sample of it that thick and that big then it's curved like this. But I don't know where I'm going to put it up on the wall. I have to just leave it on the table I guess. INTERVIEWER: I'd like to bring attention to the pins that you have on your lapel and if you could . . . SAKATO: All right. (8:00) Top one is here is the rosette is the Medal of Honor. The left side here is the Distinguished Service Cross, purple, red, red, white, blue. And the white and purple the Purple Heart Medal. I had Good Conduct Medals and stuff like that, European theater, but I don't have that on. INTERVIEWER: And the pin on the bottom is your 4-4-2. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 29 of 34 �SAKATO: The pin on the bottom 4-4-2 emblem, our patch that we wore on our left shoulder. INTERVIEWER: And last but definitely not least hanging around your neck is your actual Medal of Honor. SAKATO: Oh, this is the Medal of Honor, Congressional Medal of Honor. INTERVIEWER: That is a beautiful medal. It was 50-plus years coming. SAKATO: Right. Fifty-two, fifty-six years I guess it is. Shoulda had it in 1945 when I was discharged. Even then it would've been alright. Others got it on coming---while they were in battle or on the field or they got it two days after they were discharged they were---received it. But that's been fifty-five years ago. I could've used it then, too, fifty-five years ago. INTERVIEWER: Do you have any words of wisdom that you would like to leave to future generations of Americans, not just of Japanese ancestry, but of all ancestries. Things that you've learned that you'd like to pass on. SAKATO: If they would all put their discrimination behind them and not bring it out (10:00) and say you don't like him because he's Jap(anese), he don't like him because he's Chinese, I don't like him because he's a Portuguese. If they could all to get together and put these discrimination behind them and accept them as a brother or as a friend. He's a civilian, I'm a civilian, I'm an American citizen, he's an American citizen. I want them to throw all that out and accept the person as he is. No matter what race or what religion, what denomination he is. We should accept 'em and try to get along. We wouldn't have any wars after that. First of all, the kids I want you to get educated. Be sure you go to school, finish your school. Myself, I'd like to see the students after you get out of school, college or high school, to have one years or two years of service experience. To get in the service and protect your country, this is your country. And to be able to, in case of war, you would be able to step in and take over rather than have to take your training from a greenhorn all over. At least you could step right in and take over. This is your country, you got to protect it. INTERVIEWER: Thank you very much for being with us today, Mr. Sakato, and for sharing all of your experiences and your story and your life with us. SAKATO: I didn't know I went through all that, (12:00) but I'm glad to be here today. Thank you. INTERVIEWER: [A photograph from a book appears on screen.] . . . the book and if you can tell us the name of the book. SAKATO: "Go For Broke" is written by, what's that, Tanaka? Is that---oh, I forgot. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 30 of 34 �INTERVIEWER: How about let me . . . SAKATO: Yeah, look. [Interview crew states it is Chester Tanaka.] SAKATO: Chester, Chester Tanaka, ne? I think it's Chester Tanaka. INTERVIEWER: Okay, so this is the "Go For Broke" book by Chester Tanaka and you are in one of the photographs. This is at the attack on Bruyeres. SAKATO: Um-hum. INTERVIEWER: And if you can tell us which one you are. SAKATO: We was marching up the hill, I'm the second one in the back row. The fellow that's in front of me is Roy--Saburo Tanamachi. He was the one that died in my arms. One right just to my left is Roy Machida and Mr. Funayama in back of him. John Kasano's in that back of him, the short one that wouldn't fall out. And the rest I can't---I think is---Kurihara's the next one, and the others I could---can't picture what their names were---can't really see who they are. INTERVIEWER: When you see that picture, does it bring back all the memories of having to charge up the hill in the rain? SAKATO: Ho, the rain, muddy . . . It was tough going through those---sloshing through the mud. Slip and fall and you had to be careful how you---where your next step was. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and Mr. Sakato, this is another photo on your---looks like you're getting on a truck. SAKATO: Yes, we're on the truck, sittin' on the truck. I was standing on the truck and I'm waiting for the rest of the fellas to get on, climb aboard. I'm on the top (14:00) portion there, and the fella that's, little short fella way on the bottom, that's John Kasano. And the others I can't quite recognize. This was an AP, Associated Press photographer's photo. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember where you were off to? This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 31 of 34 �SAKATO: We were going to Bruyeres to that one hill to take the town of Bruyeres. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and Mr. Sakato, this---can you explain to us what this picture is? SAKATO: This is a picture of me with Colonel Campbell of the Mitchell Convalescent Hospital. He's pinning the Distinguished Service Cross on my shirt. This is the day before I was discharged from the Army. The medal that I did not know that I was receiving. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and Mr. Sakato, this is your . . . SAKATO: Discharge papers from the Army and the my serial number 3-9-9-3-3-4-0 is my Army serial number which was on my dogtags. And your blood type and your religion is on your dogtags. This is the copy of my discharge papers from the Army 1945. INTERVIEWER: [Addressing the crew.] Just tell me when. CREW MEMBER: Speed. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and Mr. Sakato, (16:00) can you explain to us what this is. SAKATO: This is the German belt and buckle that I took from the first machine gun nest that I had taken. Which surprised me when I run across these Germans behind the log which I thought were the Germans above running away from this position. Turned out to be the Germans with the machine guns were behind the log. And this was the belt that the lieutenant was carrying he had a pistol on it. I took the pistol and the belt from him plus another couple of souvenirs I took off of him. And when I was in the hospital I had to check in my pistol and I kept the belt to hold my bathrobe together. And I was able to bring home the belt, that's all I was able to bring. INTERVIEWER: And it says on the belt . . . SAKATO: "Gott mit uns" which they claim is "God with us." INTERVIEWER: Okay, and Mr. Sakato, can you tell us what this is? SAKATO: This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 32 of 34 �This is the my citation for the Medal of Honor from President Clinton on June 21st 2000, giving me the Medal of Honor as my---that was my citation for bravery for taking this Hill 617. I was ordered the Medal of Honor. (18:00) INTERVIEWER: Okay, and Mr. Sakato, this is your certificate? SAKATO: Certificate for the Medal of Honor given to me by the president, William Clinton, and Army---Secretary of the Army, Louis Caldera, on June 21st 2000. INTERVIEWER: And the certificate states, "The United States of America to all who shall see these presents greeting: This is to certify that the President of the United States of America authorized by Act of Congress March 3, 1863 has awarded in the name of the Congress the Medal of Honor to Private George T. Sakato, United States Army, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty in action with the enemy, 29 October 1944, given under my hand in the city of Washington this 21st day of June 2000." Okay, and Mr. Sakato, this picture is? SAKATO: Of me and President Clinton after he had pinned the Medal of Honor on my neck and he had signed it with his signature and presented it to me in my name. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and Mr. Sakato, this picture? SAKATO: This is a picture of my family, my brothers and sisters and their wives, and my wife and my uncle, (20:00) Uncle Bill Clinton. [Chuckle.] INTERVIEWER: And your wife is in the white suit and your daughter is . . . SAKATO: Is behind her. And to the right side of me, right behind my head is my sister, Fumi. Next to her is my younger brother, James. And next to him to the fight is my younger brother, John. On the left side of--right side of my wife is---behind my wife is my daughter. And then there's Flo is my James' wife and next to her is Tanya, John's wife. And President Clinton in the rear with a picture with the family. INTERVIEWER: Okay, Mr. Sakato, this is? SAKATO: This is a photo of me and my citation taken at the Pentagon. And the Pentagon had awarded all recipients of the Medal with a picture of each with their citation and the names, name plate This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 33 of 34 �underneath. Our names are inscribed on the Hall of Heroes in the Pentagon and this is part of the picture that was taken for the ceremony. This transcript is hereby made available for research purposes only by Go For Broke National Education Center. Page 34 of 34 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, September 25, 2000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview transcript [full inteview], September 25, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakato, George: narrator Nakamatsu Vargas, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Type The nature or genre of the resource Transcriptions Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34 pages, typescript Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-25 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0146_T_Sakato https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/0c7c71fa71d83bbce29c219060a55bcf.xml 688e77a6a84f3c43c31caf6a18fa8114 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, September 25, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/146-Sakato-George-6.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1921 Feb 19 Location of Birth Colton, California Incarceration Facilities "Volunteer Evacuation" War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Joe Location of Basic Training Camp Blanding, Florida Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service 442nd Regimental Combat Team Campaigns/Battles Rescue of the Lost Battalion Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, part 6 of 6, September 25, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakato, George: narrator Nakamatsu, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0146_06_Sakato Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video.m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 00:21:51 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-25 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Description An account of the resource Sakato discusses how he explains his war experiences to his daughter. He also details about what is was like being upgraded to the Medal of Honor. Sakato gives some worlds of wisdom and explains a number of photographs. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Medals Military service--Veterans' organizations Identity and values equality family lessons Medal of Honor Nisei veterans photographs post-war Purple Heart https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/b88e3b2919af206281883ae1fbed535b.xml d16399565d5a83dbf2514ebc02896362 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, September 25, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/146-Sakato-George-5.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1921 Feb 19 Location of Birth Colton, California Incarceration Facilities "Volunteer Evacuation" War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Joe Location of Basic Training Camp Blanding, Florida Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service 442nd Regimental Combat Team Campaigns/Battles Rescue of the Lost Battalion Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, part 5 of 6, September 25, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakato, George: narrator Nakamatsu, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0146_05_Sakato Description An account of the resource Sakato gives more details about Hill 617 and being upgraded to the Medal of Honor. Sakato discusses his life after leaving the army. He also discusses the aspect of discrimination. Subject The topic of the resource Military service Race--Discrimination World War II--Medals World War II--Military service--442nd Regimental Combat Team Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 00:27:20 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-25 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado discharged discrimination Distinguished Service Cross Hill 617 Medal of Honor Nisei veterans post office reunion vacation https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/d265026eb47c567c9b0afe44c5b032a8.xml 714a493e060ba160632f5069fab16eb2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, September 25, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/146-Sakato-George-4.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1921 Feb 19 Location of Birth Colton, California Incarceration Facilities "Volunteer Evacuation" War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Joe Location of Basic Training Camp Blanding, Florida Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service 442nd Regimental Combat Team Campaigns/Battles Rescue of the Lost Battalion Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, part 4 of 6, September 25, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakato, George: narrator Nakamatsu, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0146_04_Sakato Description An account of the resource Sakato discusses surviving in combat. He details the Assault on Hill 617. He also discusses his experiences while being wounded. Sakato details about receiving the Distinguished Service Cross. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Military service--442nd Regimental Combat Team World War II--European Theater World War II--Combat--Artillery Military service Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 00:28:02 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-25 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado 442nd Regimental Combat Team Distinguished Service Cross Hill 617 Lost Battalion survivor Vosges wounded in action https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/84d97ffbb7cdabc612a939c3e0af5d93.xml bd90c2ad8a4b019c3d7f648d69728e8c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, September 25, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/146-Sakato-George-3.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1921 Feb 19 Location of Birth Colton, California Incarceration Facilities "Volunteer Evacuation" War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Joe Location of Basic Training Camp Blanding, Florida Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service 442nd Regimental Combat Team Campaigns/Battles Rescue of the Lost Battalion Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, part 3 of 6, September 25, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakato, George: narrator Nakamatsu, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0146_03_Sakato Description An account of the resource Sakato discusses his time in France. He details about his experience in combat and death. Sakato discusses about fighting and traveling in the Vosges Mountains. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Military service--442nd Regimental Combat Team World War II--European Theater World War II--Combat--Artillery Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 00:27:23 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-25 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado 442nd Regimental Combat Team artillery Bruyeres combat death foxhole France Naples Vosges https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/c9967fad6466514b8e5431b73cf78794.xml eec7df16f15837f956057b2fdd14ceee Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, September 25, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/146-Sakato-George-2.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1921 Feb 19 Location of Birth Colton, California Incarceration Facilities "Volunteer Evacuation" War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Joe Location of Basic Training Camp Blanding, Florida Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service 442nd Regimental Combat Team Campaigns/Battles Rescue of the Lost Battalion Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, part 2 of 6, September 25, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakato, George: narrator Nakamatsu, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0146_02_Sakato Description An account of the resource Sakato discusses wanting to join the air force but ending up in the army. He details about basic training. Sakato also discusses about traveling on a transport ship and he also gives his opinions and thoughts about the war. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Military service--442nd Regimental Combat Team World War II--Military service--Basic training Social activities--Travel Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:27:21 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-25 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado 100th Infantry Battalion (Separate) 442nd Regimental Combat Team basic training Camp Blanding Camp Shelby Hawaiian Katonk mainlanders voyage https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/4deeda3ae5698a7c8c682c7bcf6d8091.xml 58af2168db3e913370ff315ef53eb10c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, September 25, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/146-Sakato-George-1.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1921 Feb 19 Location of Birth Colton, California Incarceration Facilities "Volunteer Evacuation" War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Joe Location of Basic Training Camp Blanding, Florida Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service 442nd Regimental Combat Team Campaigns/Battles Rescue of the Lost Battalion Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource George Sakato oral history interview, part 1 of 6, September 25, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakato, George: narrator Nakamatsu, Karen: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0146_01_Sakato Description An account of the resource Sakato discusses what it was like growing up in California. He details about his education. Sakato also discusses he experiences from when he moved to Arizona. Subject The topic of the resource Identity and values--Family Education World War II--American Concentration Camps--Poston (Colorado River) Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 00:27:00 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000-09-25 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado American Concentration Camps Arizona California education family grocery store Poston volunteer https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/942c23615d677a0c22b60f969989e871.xml a3f1919844bc058f17f782b456100f2c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, September 23, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/143-Ito-Sueo-4.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1919 May 22 Location of Birth Kurtistown, Hawaii War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Location of Basic Training Schofield Barracks, (Oahu) Hawaii Fort McClellan, Alabama Fort Snelling, Minnesota Unit of Service Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Campaigns/Battles Philippine Islands Post-war Occupation of Japan Tokyo Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers (SCAP) Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, part 4 of 4, September 23, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ito, Sueo: narrator Demonteverde, Marie: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0143_04_Ito Description An account of the resource Ito describes various photographs Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Photography Arts and literature World War II--Veteran history Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:13:20 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 September 23 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Military Intelligence Service (MIS) photographs war crimes trials https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/a8725333f1e384f9ed749649bac399db.xml d91ae5857023c4b9b1f5a009a6b129f2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, September 23, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/143-Ito-Sueo-3.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1919 May 22 Location of Birth Kurtistown, Hawaii War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Location of Basic Training Schofield Barracks, (Oahu) Hawaii Fort McClellan, Alabama Fort Snelling, Minnesota Unit of Service Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Campaigns/Battles Philippine Islands Post-war Occupation of Japan Tokyo Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers (SCAP) Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, part 3 of 4, September 23, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ito, Sueo: narrator Demonteverde, Marie: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0143_03_Ito Description An account of the resource Ito discusses the treatment while in Minnesota, witnessing discrimination, and his family. He details about going to dental school and moving to Denver. Ito also discusses his participation in the community and the future for Japanese Americans. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Veteran history Industry and employment Japanese Americans--Post-World War II World War II--War crimes trials Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:25:28 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 September 23 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado discrimination family Japanese Americans post-war https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/f97fa27fc866b3a67d5d4a5556e26cdc.xml 1d7a5a8dc21cbdeeb1e211029216d128 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, September 23, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/143-Ito-Sueo-2.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1919 May 22 Location of Birth Kurtistown, Hawaii War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Location of Basic Training Schofield Barracks, (Oahu) Hawaii Fort McClellan, Alabama Fort Snelling, Minnesota Unit of Service Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Campaigns/Battles Philippine Islands Post-war Occupation of Japan Tokyo Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers (SCAP) Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, part 2 of 4, September 23, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ito, Sueo: narrator Demonteverde, Marie: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0143_02_Ito Description An account of the resource Ito discusses more about his experiences in Manila and working on the General Yamashita trail. He details about his experiences in Japan and the other trails that he worked on. Ito also discusses about receiving an award, being discharged, and coming home. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Asiatic-Pacific Theater --Philippine Islands World War II--Military service--Military Intelligence Service World War II--War crimes trials Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:28:29 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 September 23 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Japan Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Philippines post-war war crimes trials https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/960f6e05bf757c1412ebcbf900c426a2.xml 8505331125c890e64ffe42712f7a20bc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, September 23, 2000 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/143-Ito-Sueo-1.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1919 May 22 Location of Birth Kurtistown, Hawaii War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Location of Basic Training Schofield Barracks, (Oahu) Hawaii Fort McClellan, Alabama Fort Snelling, Minnesota Unit of Service Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Campaigns/Battles Philippine Islands Post-war Occupation of Japan Tokyo Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers (SCAP) Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sueo Ito oral history interview, part 1 of 4, September 23, 2000 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ito, Sueo: narrator Demonteverde, Marie: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000OH0143_01_Ito Description An account of the resource Ito discusses his family, educational experiences and religion. He details about Pearl Harbor and its aftermath. Ito also discusses about basic training and his experiences working in Manila on the General Yamashita trail. Subject The topic of the resource Hawaii-- Pearl Harbor and aftermath World War II--Military service--Military Intelligence Service World War II--Asiatic-Pacific Theater --Philippine Islands World War II--War crimes trials Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:27:50 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 September 23 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado General Yamashita Manila Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Pearl Harbor and aftermath Philippines war crimes trials https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/b3d287be5d8f30ae242b98a29e61653f.xml fdad4cf0611d7086a66f2046257c9e37 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goro Sakaguchi oral history interview, September 12, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/719-Sakaguchi-Goro-2.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1924 Jul 24 Location of Birth Brighton, Colorado War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Location of Basic Training Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service 442nd Regimental Combat Team 100th Infantry Battalion/442nd Regimental Combat Team (Combined) Campaigns/Battles Rome-Arno Campaign Northern Apennines and Po Valley Campaigns Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Goro Sakaguchi oral history interview, part 2 of 2, September 12, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakaguchi, Goro: narrator Leivici, Joanne: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0719_02_Sakaguchi Description An account of the resource Sakaguchi discusses leaving on a troop carrier to Europe. He shares experiences in Italy, and the Germans retreating. When the war ends with Japan, he remains in the military for a year guarding the army supply. After being discharged, Sakaguchi work several jobs. Later in his life, he works for the Sheriff's for over a decade before retiring. As for his personal life, he discusses married, divorced and children. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--European Theater World War II--Military service--442nd Regimental Combat Team Japanese Americans--Post-World War II Industry and employment Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:48:30 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 12 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado children Executive Order 9066 Farming Frank D. Roosevelt German Prisoners of War (POWs) Italy Nisei veterans post-war reunion war wedding https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/57ac41b7f096bdb691c995b627f64776.xml b89d5725064225dd265a220a1b5e0982 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Henry Keizo Sakaguchi oral history interview, September 12, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/718-Sakaguchi-Henry-3.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1920 Oct 31 Location of Birth Henderson, Colorado War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Kez Location of Basic Training Camp Shelby, Mississippi Fort Sill, Oklahoma Unit of Service 522nd Field Artillery Battalion Campaigns/Battles Rome-Arno Campaign Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Belvedere Rhineland Campaign-Maritime Alps Rescue of the Lost Battalion Liberation of Dachau Subcamps Central Europe Campaign Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Henry Keizo Sakaguchi oral history interview, part 3 of 3, September 12, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakaguchi, Henry Keizo: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0718_03_Sakaguchi Description An account of the resource Sakaguchi describes the different sounds of weapons as they fire. He talks about German military equipment. He explains how the Allies defeated the Germans. He continues to talk about the rescue of the Lost Battalion. He describes the courage of the Nisei. He discusses the Champagne Campaign. He talks about the German border and Concentration Camps. He shares his opinions on war. Sakaguchi talks about friendships and the black markets. He discusses his discharge. He briefly discusses the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He talks about friends that he lost in combat. He describes his career and marriage after he returned to the United States. He describes his growing family. He describes various photographs and items that are shown on camera. He explains the legacy of the Nisei veterans. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--European Theater--Central Europe Campaign--Liberation of Dachau Subcamps (522nd Field Artillery Battalion) World War II--Military service--522nd Field Artillery Battalion World War II--Veteran history Japanese Americans--Post-World War II Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:39:28 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 12 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Black Market Champagne Campaign Dachau KIA Lost Battalion marriage Nisei photographs https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/4a75f90a2b64d9ae44eb63dd7dcaa817.xml 16c2b92b4c04f3625be441deb0404f58 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Henry Keizo Sakaguchi oral history interview, September 12, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/718-Sakaguchi-Henry-2.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1920 Oct 31 Location of Birth Henderson, Colorado War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Kez Location of Basic Training Camp Shelby, Mississippi Fort Sill, Oklahoma Unit of Service 522nd Field Artillery Battalion Campaigns/Battles Rome-Arno Campaign Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Belvedere Rhineland Campaign-Maritime Alps Rescue of the Lost Battalion Liberation of Dachau Subcamps Central Europe Campaign Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Henry Keizo Sakaguchi oral history interview, part 2 of 3, September 12, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakaguchi, Henry Keizo: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0718_02_Sakaguchi Description An account of the resource Sakaguchi briefly discusses the Axis powers. He talks about the forced removal of Japanese Americans. He explains why he joined the military. He talks about the Governor of Colorado's stance on the treatment of Japanese Americans. He describes the enlistment and induction process. He discusses his study of radios. He recollects his family's response to his decision to enlist. He shares his knowledge of the 100th Infantry Battalion. He describes his combat experiences. He talks about what life was like in Mississippi. He discusses his relationships with Hawaiian soldiers and with soldiers from his hometown. Sakaguchi talks about his military radio training and basic military training. He describes a military leave. He talks about military equipment. He explains how radios were used during World War Two. He describes his journey to Italy and his unit's military campaigns. He talks about exploring Europe. He explains what the role of the 552nd unit was within the 442nd Regimental Combat Team. He discusses Hill 140 and the rescue of the Lost Battalion. He talks about his Battery and Artillery squad. He talks about different leaders, including General Dahlquist. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Military service--522nd Field Artillery Battalion World War II--European Theater World War II--Military service--Basic training--Camp Shelby World War II--Veteran history Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:59:28 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 12 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado 552nd artillery Camp Shelby enlist General Dahlquist Hill 140 Lost Battalion radio https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/05b8d49cfc2cfbe4becada118c093045.xml c44965b33fe96d2a0414b1557f415418 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Henry Keizo Sakaguchi oral history interview, September 12, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/718-Sakaguchi-Henry-1.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1920 Oct 31 Location of Birth Henderson, Colorado War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Volunteered Nickname Kez Location of Basic Training Camp Shelby, Mississippi Fort Sill, Oklahoma Unit of Service 522nd Field Artillery Battalion Campaigns/Battles Rome-Arno Campaign Bruyeres, Belmont, Biffontaine Belvedere Rhineland Campaign-Maritime Alps Rescue of the Lost Battalion Liberation of Dachau Subcamps Central Europe Campaign Physical Media Notes The condition of the physical media video is a little dark Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Henry Keizo Sakaguchi oral history interview, part 1 of 3, September 12, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sakaguchi, Henry Keizo: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0718_01_Sakaguchi Description An account of the resource Sakaguchi talks about his birthplace. He discusses his siblings and his parents immigration to the United States. He describes his parent's personalities. He briefly talks about his nickname. He discusses his family home and his community of Brighton, Colorado. He describes family dynamics and his chores. He talks about his family farm and his schooling. Sakaguchi talks about cost of living in the early 20th century. He discusses the Japanese American community in Brighton, Colorado. He shares his knowledge of global affairs before Pearl Harbor. He describes the Attack on Pearl Harbor and the aftermath. Subject The topic of the resource Identity and values--Family Community activities World War II--Pearl Harbor and aftermath Education Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:52:11 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 12 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Colorado discrimination family Farming forced removal Japanese Americans Pearl Harbor and aftermath radio https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/5c381d351cd597972e3d7c7da988e520.xml 4851c402f1f9833087992f7fb1d736cd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jimmie Koji Motoyama oral history interview, September 11, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/716-Motoyama-Jimmy-1.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1919 Oct 03 Location of Birth Eaton, Colorado War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Nickname Jim Unit of Service 100th Infantry Battalion/442nd Regimental Combat Team (Combined) Campaigns/Battles Northern Apennines and Po Valley Campaigns The Gothic Line Rome-Arno Campaign Rhineland Campaign-Maritime Alps Vosges Physical Media Notes The condition of the physical media video is dark Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jimmie Koji Motoyama oral history interview, part 1 of 1, September 11, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Motoyama, Jimmie: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0716_01_Motoyama Description An account of the resource Motoyama discusses about growing up in Eaton, Colorado and his schooling. He details about his military service. Motoyama also discusses about bravery and his post-war life. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Military service--442nd Regimental Combat Team World War II--European Theater World War II--Veteran history Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:36:25 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 11 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado 442nd Regimental Combat Team childhood European Theater post-war Silver Star https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/da70dc86ad347e24e0baabea2e242260.xml c65020de0f27bd88ced930a40958943a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Toshiyuki Uchida oral history interview, September 10, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/712-Uchida-Tom-3.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1923 Oct 12 Location of Birth Seattle, Washington Incarceration Facilities Puyallup Temporary Detention Facility Minidoka Concentration Camp War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Nickname Tom Location of Basic Training Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Campaigns/Battles Post-war Occupation of Japan Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Toshiyuki Uchida oral history interview, part 3 of 3, September 10, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Uchida, Toshiyuki: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0712_03_Uchida Description An account of the resource Uchida and Kinoshita discuss their time in Japan and seeing the devastation of Hiroshima and the occupation of Japan. They talk about their experiences talking with civilians and seeing the black market. Next, they talk about their life after discharge, owning a service station in Colorado and becoming very successful at that. They also speak about fishing, gardening and business that they were involved with. Next, they talk about marriage and family background and the success of Uchida's children and grandchildren. They also briefly speak about kamikazes and the Japanese pilots during the war. They finish up with some final notes on the history of Shizuoka. Subject The topic of the resource Identity and values--Family Allied Occupation of Japan Military service--Post-World War II Occupation of Japan Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:58:39 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 10 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado atomic bomb Black Market cancer Chicago cigarettes civilians devastation family fishing General MacArthur Hiroshima interpreting Japan Occupation of Japan repairs service station Shizuoka https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/1675c20edb8ca53102dc38d34cd9d4b3.xml e1835808e76e316f0c7d022b73e034cd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Toshiyuki Uchida oral history interview, September 10, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/712-Uchida-Tom-2.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1923 Oct 12 Location of Birth Seattle, Washington Incarceration Facilities Puyallup Temporary Detention Facility Minidoka Concentration Camp War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Nickname Tom Location of Basic Training Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Campaigns/Battles Post-war Occupation of Japan Index indicates an oral history item with an XML file indexed in OHMS. Yes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Toshiyuki Uchida oral history interview, part 2 of 3, September 10, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Uchida, Toshiyuki: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer Go For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0712_02_Uchida Description An account of the resource Uchida and Kinoshita continue their recollection of joining the Army. At the time, Uchida was working on the railroads in Montana and Kinoshita was at the Minidoka concentration camp. They talk about their individual basic training at Camp Shelby, and being moved to Fort Snelling for the Military Intelligence Service (MIS). Although they didn't overlap, they would both end up in the Pacific. Kinoshita would end up in the Philippines where he would hold interpreting assignments, while Uchida would be a part of the Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC). Next, they talk about the legacy of the Nisei soldiers and what made them such successful soldiers. They also discuss the reasons for volunteering for the Army and the conditions of Japan during occupation. Subject The topic of the resource World War II--Military service--Basic training World War II--Military service--Military Intelligence Service Allied Occupation of Japan World War II--Military and Government Entities--Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:55:02 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 10 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado Atomic bombs Black Market Camp Shelby casualties Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) Draft Fort Douglas Fort Meade Fort Snelling General MacArthur interrogation Japan Japanese American soldiers K Company Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Minidoka Concentration Center Philippines Prisoners of War (POWs) PX store Senninbari starvation https://ndajams.omeka.net/files/original/fc03fc70b3450c4bc7b94f272c54f6df.xml 8dedf45acb67383dc31ec90b31a30f97 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Toshiyuki Uchida oral history interview, September 10, 2006 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. URL http://www.goforbroke.org/oral_histories/mp4/712-Uchida-Tom-1.m4v Date of Birth [YYYY-MM-DD] 1923 Oct 12 Location of Birth Seattle, Washington Incarceration Facilities Puyallup Temporary Detention Facility Minidoka Concentration Camp War or Conflict World War, 1939-1945 Branch of Service Army Entrance into Service Drafted or Volunteered Drafted Nickname Tom Location of Basic Training Camp Shelby, Mississippi Unit of Service Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Campaigns/Battles Post-war Occupation of Japan Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Toshiyuki Uchida oral history interview, part 1 of 3, September 10, 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Uchida, Toshiyuki: narrator Kinoshita, Kiyoshi: narrator Kunitomi, Darrell: interviewer For Broke National Education Center: publisher Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Go For Broke National Education Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2006OH0712_01_Uchida Description An account of the resource Toshiyuki Uchida and Kiyoshi Kinoshita begin the interview with an introduction and background on their nicknames and families. Both were born in Washington and would attend school and Japanese language school, enjoying the outdoors. Next, they both talk about their respective whereabouts during the attacks on Pearl Harbor, Kinoshita hearing in Tacoma, and Uchida hearing at his work as a machine operator. Both had families that would be evacuated to Puyallup Assembly Center and then moved to Minidoka concentration camp in Idaho. As Kinoshita was still young at the time, he enjoyed his time at the camp. Uchida would become close with Kinoshita's sister, who would later become his wife. They each talk about the importance of Issei during this time and the hardship that they went through. They also talk about the living conditions and what it felt like to be watched from a guard tower with a machine gun. Subject The topic of the resource Identity and values--Family World War II--Pearl Harbor and aftermath World War II--American Concentration Camps--Minidoka World War II--Temporary Detention Facilities--Puyallup Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral Histories Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/m4v Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:53:52 Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 September 10 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Denver, Colorado 442nd Regimental Combat Team barbed wire Camp Shelby Colorado discrimination family fishing hunting Issei Japanese language school living conditions Military Intelligence Service (MIS) Minidoka Concentration Center Pearl Harbor personal belongings Puyallup Temporary Detention Center radio